Icons and Prayer Ropes???

Love all the feedback everyone! I think depending on the person they either look at an icon as a way of worship ex. (thinks that by having this icon or looking at it gives them sometime type of power or connection with God) or they look at it in a way as a representation to bring back the memory and give some sort of picture of what was going on at the time by looking at the picture in I would say meditate on it.

Here's my overrall question that someone who uses an icon should think about. Do you really BELIEVE AND HAVE FAITH that the person who drew the Icon was guided or instructed by the Holy Ghost to paint the icon to depict God, Jesus Christ, the saints, and Mary in the PERFECT and FLAWLESS picture of all them?

If so then you might be setting yourself up with idolatry in putting your faith in someone elses work no matter what your purpose of having the icon is for. You most likely do not even know the person: who may not truly be saved or are bearing good fruit and truly following Christ. You might be trusting in someone who is just painting the picture for the sake of making money. I think those should be some things to think about.

As far as putting our minds on images of all of these people and why I believe it's acceptable to do that without an icon I got to Philipans 4:8 KJV

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, THINK on these things."

Paul does not say get an image to help you THINK on these things to help you get a clear picture of what these things are. God accepts that if we use our MINDS to think on for example of Christs purity, love, honesty, virtues, praise and I would say make an image of him that represents Christ's image in these aspects for OUR OWN MINDS AND BUILDING OF FAITH then we rely on OUR OWN FAITH of Christ which God wants and not relying our faith on an image of someone elses faith of Christ's image.

We can make a better images and emotional connections in our minds about what Christ went through and attaching to our own faith of the representation then any picture can because our minds don't make it just in one frame of something like a picture does. We make it into what I say a real life reality with emotions, movement, and representation in our minds more beautifully then a picture ever will.

That's my little outlook on it. I could say more but I'm about to go watch the Bears/Packers game:p and I think I've given my two sense so far.

GO BEARS!!!! GOD BLESS!!!! :D
 
ABabeInChrist said:
Here's my overrall question that someone who uses an icon should think about. Do you really BELIEVE AND HAVE FAITH that the person who drew the Icon was guided or instructed by the Holy Ghost to paint the icon to depict God, Jesus Christ, the saints, and Mary in the PERFECT and FLAWLESS picture of all them?
Click to expand...

I think people does not put faith on the artisan… it is on what it represents..
 
aha said:
I think even a nonbeliever, seeing a statue of a man in a cross, depicting his suffering; will know it is Jesus being represented.
Click to expand...

man on a cross I mean : )

I mean, the statue of "Christ the Redeemer" one popular in Brazil, and replicated is many countries is sending messages to nonbelievers who and why is that...

I think there is a bigger issue on legalism (imo)... if people think that such a statue is a violation of the command...
 
This is maybe going to sound anti-RCC, but let be say at the outset that it is not meant that way. Just recalling true facts and musing on a possible reason.

Many years ago, on the Hume Highway in a suburb called Yagoona , Sydney, NSW Australia, a Catholic Church had a rather large, but modestly sized crucifix with a figure of the crucified Christ on it.
It remained there for many years unmolested, but eventually someone decided to splash some red paint on the figure depicting the flow of blood from the body. It remained that way for maybe a month or so and then the figure was removed. As best I can recall, the cross itself remained for some years, but looking at Google Earth shows that even that has now been removed..
Why the figure was not simply taken down and cleaned up then replaced I can only guess.
Since there is nothing now occupying the space where that cross was, I am left wondering where the original conviction to erect such an icon has gone?
Could it be that the RCC is changing in the importance it places on these things?
 
I really don't think it's a complicated issue at all.

Is the object being worshipped? Then it's idolatry.
Is the object representing God, or Jesus Christ? Then it's not idolatry.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "My lord and saviour Mr. Statue."

As far as the RCC goes, I see the idolatry charge as little more than an insult. Because there WAS once upon a time where pagans worshipped rocks, trees, etc. And I have encountered some Christians who enjoy calling Catholics pagans. So I think that's what's being inferred.

Speaking for myself, I have never, and have never known anyone, who worshipped statues, rocks, carvings, images, or the saints, or Mary, or the pope.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Secondly, regarding vain repetitions, you have two words to consider, "vain" and "repetition". Clearly repetitions alone are not the issue or we would not be commanded to pray The Lord's Prayer. Therefore the focus should be on "vain". Personally I find repetition of anything is the key to its memorization and therefore the key to it being ingrained and therefore earnest and heartfelt.

Incidentally, Glomung is entirely correct about the construction of graven images. The warning is not the construction of them but their worship. And statues are not worshipped.
Click to expand...
We are we commanded to pray the Lord's Prayer?
 
Abdicate said:
Vain is the adjective for repetitions, making the repetitions vain.
Click to expand...
It does not rebuke repetitions themselves, but VAIN ones, which only makes sense, why would it rebuke repetitions themselves immediately after commanding the Lord's Prayer, which is the most often-repeated prayer there is?
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
It does not rebuke repetitions themselves, but VAIN ones, which only makes sense, why would it rebuke repetitions themselves immediately after commanding the Lord's Prayer, which is the most often-repeated prayer there is?
Click to expand...
The prayer is a template, not a new set of Ten Commandments. You have to read the context: religion kills. What is religion? Repetitive actions done in the name of a belief without faith.
 
Abdicate said:
The prayer is a template, not a new set of Ten Commandments. You have to read the context: religion kills. What is religion? Repetitive actions done in the name of a belief without faith.
Click to expand...
Who can read into a man's heart to see whether faith exists? It is not possible. Repetition is irrelevant to that. For myself, repetition ingrains an idea into my head. It is the OPPOSITE of what you speak of.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Who can read into a man's heart to see whether faith exists? It is not possible. Repetition is irrelevant to that. For myself, repetition ingrains an idea into my head. It is the OPPOSITE of what you speak of.
Click to expand...
I just quoted the word of God. It's your choice to believe it or not. The decision one way or the other holds a great deal of consequences.
 
Abdicate said:
I just quoted the word of God. It's your choice to believe it or not. The decision one way or the other holds a great deal of consequences.
Click to expand...
Once again we disagree on the interpretation of the word of God. Sorry it isn't as cut and dried as I believe you make it out to be. You follow your teaching and I will follow mine.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Matthew 6:9-13
Click to expand...
v. 9 says it:
NKJV: 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:
NASB: 9 “Pray, then, in this way:
NIV: 9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
NLT: 9 Pray like this:
KJV: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

I don't see "repeat this prayer" or "say this prayer" or "I command you to pray this prayer" or anything of the like. I do see "Here is an example" and "use a format similar to this". I'm surely not against saying this exact one on occasion, but to repeat nearly every service would be vain.
 
Big Moose said:
v. 9 says it:
NKJV: 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:
NASB: 9 “Pray, then, in this way:
NIV: 9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
NLT: 9 Pray like this:
KJV: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

I don't see "repeat this prayer" or "say this prayer" or "I command you to pray this prayer" or anything of the like. I do see "Here is an example" and "use a format similar to this". I'm surely not against saying this exact one on occasion, but to repeat nearly every service would be vain.
Click to expand...
And yet the Lord's Prayer is the most prayed prayer in all of Christianity. I don't see why it's a problem. It's a beautiful prayer.
 
Big Moose said:
It is just instructive that you said Jesus commanded us to pray it, and yet the text does not back up the statement. Like you said, you will follow your teaching.
Click to expand...
I do believe the text instructs us to pray it, if it didn't why would so many millions of Christians say it? We used to say it daily in public school. Was that a sin? We say it weekly in the church I attend. Is that a sin? Ask yourself, is the repetition of it really the issue, or is VAIN repetitions really what is being instructed against?

I believe you'll have a hard time convincing practically every faith who speak The Lord's Prayer regularly that it is bad or sinful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top