Not sure what you mean by that term? do you have a verse that would help me put context to your question?
How Does One Keep The Sabbath And Does It Apply To The New Covenant
- Thread starter Brother Paul
- Start date
You know MOG, I have been thinking about Rom 7:1 today. I know you did not intend to post that scripture reference but it does make one consider why Paul made that statement? I think its important to understand the vastness of the Law of Moses, it basically ruled every aspect of the lives of those who lived under it. The Jews of that day would not have seen the 10 commandments as separate from the rest of the law, as some have tried to teach in the latter apostasy of the church. The Gentile would not have been able to relate to Pauls teachings as would those Jews who knew the law. We see in Paul a great love and respect for the Law, and we see him take great pains to bring those things written in the law, into the fulfillment of the New Covenant. I also hope to honor the law and uphold its true standard and purpose. I rejoice that I am not being judged by the letter of the law, that I am completely and absolutely justified by the Grace of God. In this I find the Love of God is allowed to fulfill that which the law demanded. I know that I know that it is not nothing of me but it is the Spirit of God fulfilling the righteousness that God desires, in and through me. All should know and understand that at the end of all obedience, we should be confident that it was nothing of ourselves but God working in us. There is no boasting in the true gospel, there is no place for man to act as if he has earned anything from God. "what do you have, that God did not first give you by His Grace"?
Well that means that it is the Spirit of God , working through the believer that which fulfills the righteousness of the law. Not by looking to the written code, which will produce sinful desires and lust in the flesh.
Here is a good example:
Ro 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Mitspa:
Beloved, you are almost making it out that it is the commandment's fault (i.e.: God's fault) that man sinned; or that man sinned without any seduction, temptation, or provocation. Yes, man chose to sin, but:
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid (no!). But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
So it is sin that works death, not the commandment: sin that uses the commandment against the Lord's will, that was meant
for life: for "...the law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them." The Lord Jesus lived in the commandments and was therefore able to fullfill the law: making Him "...holy, just, and good".
Beloved, you are almost making it out that it is the commandment's fault (i.e.: God's fault) that man sinned; or that man sinned without any seduction, temptation, or provocation. Yes, man chose to sin, but:
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid (no!). But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
So it is sin that works death, not the commandment: sin that uses the commandment against the Lord's will, that was meant
for life: for "...the law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them." The Lord Jesus lived in the commandments and was therefore able to fullfill the law: making Him "...holy, just, and good".
Now you are witnessing to me. Even if we disagree, you know what I see right now? A man walking after the Spirit of God. And you know what, by walking after the Spirit you are keeping the commandments aka upholding the law aka establishing the law(Romans 3:31). I say that because I honestly see the fruits of the Spirit, some of which is honesty, kindness, love, peace, gentleness, longsuffering, goodness, and faith for which there is no law against (Gal 5:22-23). I see Christ in you. Jesus says "Love your neighbor as yourself." (Mark 12:31) This is not a new commandment but has always been the will of God even in OT (Lev 19:18). That is because the Lord does not change (Mal 3:6)
Therefore, when you love your neighbor, you in deed and by default keep the last 6 of the commandments, which deal with human relationship. Likewise, when you love your God with all you heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength (Deu 6:5), you know what commandments are kept? The first four commandments, which deal with our relationship to our creator. Hence: "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:40.
God is spirit John 4:24, The law is spirit Rom 7:14.
God is Love 1 John 4:8, The law is love Rom 13:10
God is faithful 1 Cor 1:9, The law is faithful Psalms 119:86
God is eternal Gen21:33 , The law is eternal Psalms 111:7,8
God is unchangeable James 1:17, The law is unchangeable Matt 5:18
The law of liberty is essentially the character of God. God is love. These are the principles of Gods government and will stand forever and ever.
Try taking the antithesis of the fruits of the spirit and seeing which commandment they break. His command are exceedingly broad (Psalms 119:96).
Finally, meditate on the fruits of the spirit, because those things will keep you and I humble, meek and always willing to be taught by God. I pray that the Lord will help me be those things.
God Bless you,
MoG
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Tell me, Beloved, who is it that "...abides in Him..."? Is it the person who sins, or does not sin: is it the person who keeps the Law, or the transgressor of the Law? Is the "believer" that sins without fault, and is not a transgressor od the Law; or is it simply that that believer has not reached the maturity required to overcome the seduction of sin? One cannot have it both ways. The Lord is
righteous with the wicked and with the saints: God does not make acceptance of persons.
Therefore, be certain that the scriptures you use to judge those who believe things you don't, "...with the measure you mete, it
shall be measured unto you again."
Walk in righteouness, Beloved.
I thank you for your kind reply and that you see Gods goodness in my intentions. I would say my friend that it is the truths that I am sharing with you that has made me that which witnesses to you. When I died to the Law, I found that the flesh lost its power over me. It is a mystery and it seems very hard for some to understand, but the strength of sin is the law. And sin will not have dominion over those who know they are not under law but under grace. I do not speak of grace as a doctrine but as the Spirit of Grace. Again thank you for your kind words and feel free to continue with any questions that you might have.
Now Mr Villa, you did not post anything I have posted that would give that impression? Do you know why? because its not there to find. I have made absolutely clear the wretched condition of man is the problem not the law. Read my post above #163 and all the others and find the evidence of what you are trying to accuse me of. If these things are hard for you to understand, then "pray and ask God"
Well all those who are "In Him", in faith..abides in Him And there is no people who "do not sin" The key word being "in Him" Are you claiming "you" do not sin?
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Let me ask you again Mr Villa have you "sinneth" since you have known Christ? Of course you have, we all have . The scripture is telling us the same thing Paul taught that the Law cannot condemn or judge the believer. That we are justified from all the judgment of the law. We are righteous In Christ, how can we be sinners and be righteous at the same time. Those who do not practice this righteousness (the righteousness of faith) are not righteous. But are in willful sin. Just as Heb 10 teaches.
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Beloved, you only hear what you want to hear, and you call that faith. It seems that no one has faith but those who agree with you. Now we are saved through faith, by grace; not by faith through grace. That is what you seem to be preaching: and that is not the Gospel. The Gospel is what saves, and it is manifest in the believers. I have heard you attest about faith: just as I have heard the "modernists" speak.
If I sin I "...have an advocate with the Father...He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The Law does not condemn the believer, and we have ONE who judges. But the righteousness is what condemns the sinner: even as the righteousness of Noah condemned the world....it judged them guilty.
Of course a man is righteous in Christ, if that man believes the promise and receives it! But a sinner cannot judge another sinner, even if they seem to have more faith. Knowing more scriptures is not having more faith, if they are not righly divided. Be careful that you do not become "...a respecter of persons." This is the Gospel declared by the twelve apostles chosen by the Lord: "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you...".
Walk in the Lord, Beloved.
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I say thank God that many of you have real faith, because you do not have sound doctrine. Mr Villa, you have tried to put forth a standard from the scriptures as to lay a yoke upon others that you in wise keep or can keep yourself. Every time I have challenged you on your ability to keep what you are trying to teach to others, you have failed to respond, why? You know Mr. Villa "love" is the keeping of the law the Royal law being "love others as yourself" . Those who "claim" to uphold the law yet judge others by a standard they do not or can not keep, are breaking the law altogether. This is the hypocrisy that The Lord hates.
Mt 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
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I see. I appealed to the righteousness of Christ for all believers in I Jn. 1:9 _ but according to you, that is not available to me because I believe in the Gosplel the saves; instead, you will judge me in the love that you say you have for the Lord. I see.
Sir, I kow the difference between mercy and grace: mercy does not save, it leads us to grace. Now mercy "...rejoices against judgment...": can you tell me why? Do you believe the standard of mercy is too heavy? You see, with mercy one does not even have to believe! It is God that does not impute sin. So actually, sir, you are placing a heavier "burden" on everyone: and that is to believe! And so it is with all the modernists that believe their faith in material gain is the standard by which we are saved. "If you have faith, have it unto yourself." "Look!", they shout. "I have a luxury car, or a mansion. See how my faith has given me wealth?" The Lord Jesus said, "They have their reward." The Apostle Paul said he had nothing, only Jesus.
You have "challenged" me? Sir, under what law have you challenged me on my "ability to keep what you (me) are trying to teach": under the Law of Mercy, or Grace? Remember, mercy leads one to grace: and grace saves one from the "Law of Sin and Death": either way, you would be doing me a favor. Wait a minute! You are not challenging me, but judging me under the "Law of Sin and Death"! You have judged me guilty, and "...full of darkness...". That's how it seems on the surface.
I plead the blood of Jesus!
My friend allow that Blood to cover others and justify them as "sinless" as you would have it cover you and then you will understand the Law of God. "love others as you love yourself" Do not lay yokes and standards upon others that you do not or cannot keep and then you will understand what is means to be righteous.
You know the word "righteous" really means "just" A man who is "just" will never judge others by a standard they cannot keep. "unrighteousness" means "inequity" - having a heart that is not "just" that has not been purified from hypocrisy. An "equal" and "just" heart is a righteous heart. Now I say that on a personal level in relation to others many walk in the truth, but on a doctrinal level they teach "unjust"- unrighteous doctrine.
Th
My brother, do you not realize that the law reveals the exceedingly sinfulness of sin?
I am glad I do not have a dog in this hunt!!!
My brother, do you not realize that the law reveals the exceedingly sinfulness of sin?
I am glad I do not have a dog in this hunt!!!
Let me say this, that many that are "legalistic" in doctrine are not really that way on a personal level with others. They know in their heart how to give grace and love in the ways of God, but in their mind they do not understand what God has written on their hearts. They have been taught a mixture of law and grace, which brings a double mind. They can shout amen at church when the preacher condemns some folks to "heck" but can show the grace of God when they deal on a personal level with these same people they had condemned at church. They put on religious mask when they get around other religious people, but can be more sincere and honest when the religious spotlight is not on them. That goodness and mercy for these suffering and weak people that God has placed in your heart, that is the true gospel. And sound doctrine lines up perfectly with the love that is in your heart. Forsake these traditions that mix law and grace, come into the truth, those of you who love truth.
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So you are allowing the blood of Jesus over me, and are now saying that I am not allowing the blood of Jesus over others: as if I could ever deny that. No! I point to the blood and the sacrifice of "...the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world."
Now you insist that I am a hypocrite: by your standard? Exactly what "yoke" are you accusing me of "laying...upon others"? You should be specific, if you will be honest.
Now, if "righteous" means just; then unrighteousness should mean unjust. But tell me: what does "iniquity" mean to you? Can a man commit iniquity in ignorance; or is "sin" a consequence of ignorance? If a man "...sins willfully...", is that not iniquity? Now if iniquity is "having a heart not purified from hypocrsy", does that mean that that person has not received/believed your gospel?
You touch upon a "personal level" and a "doctrinal level". You mean that truth is personal, but doctrine is not "personal"? You seem to be saying that one can be saved, but still have false doctrine. That means, to me, that one cannot remain saved! I still maintain that it is the Gospel that saves, but doctrine that keeps one saved. So you are denying the OSAS doctrine.
Walk in the Truth, Beloved.
I am glad that you admit that those who have been washed are clean? Now continue in the truth and the truth will set you free.
Joel1982
Inactive
["Brother Paul, post: 308999, member: 13044"]So there we have it...a twofold question...
a) How does one keep the Sabbath (if they believe they must)
b) Is keeping the Sabbath applicable the same way in the two Covenants (Old and New)
My first premise is that modern Sabbatarians do not keep the Sabbath the way God commanded...
Let's discuss
brother Paul[/quote]
I want to clue in here. It says that sabbath was made for man not man for the sabath. It's not for Gods benefit. He doesn't need the sabbath. We do. We need that time. The sabbath is made for our benefit. Nothing else. God gave us the sabbath
What are you even arguing about?
a) How does one keep the Sabbath (if they believe they must)
b) Is keeping the Sabbath applicable the same way in the two Covenants (Old and New)
My first premise is that modern Sabbatarians do not keep the Sabbath the way God commanded...
Let's discuss
brother Paul[/quote]
I want to clue in here. It says that sabbath was made for man not man for the sabath. It's not for Gods benefit. He doesn't need the sabbath. We do. We need that time. The sabbath is made for our benefit. Nothing else. God gave us the sabbath
What are you even arguing about?