Hearing From The Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Holy Spirit Baptism and Living' started by Kevin, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. Brother for you to say the "Bible" (The Word of God) is not what we go to is putting your self on very dangerous ground. You said the Holy Spirit taught you things about God without using the Bible. How do you know it was the Holy Spirit? There is no salvation without the shedding of blood. How are you going to know this without the Bible telling you this? Is the God the Father who teaches us, and he uses the Word of God (the Bible) to conform what he teaches , and the Holy Spirit leads us into his truth. The Bible is absolutely essential in knowing God, so we don't run off the road into the ditch!!
     
  2. I see again that you ignore the points I keep making, and then take the rest out of context.
    Scholars throughout history have made the bible say what they want it to say. That's why theologians, even on this forum have proved from the bible that God no longer speaks to people today!
    That is why the bible alone will not give the answer unless by revelation of the Holy Spirit. In other words, it is the Holy Spirit that validates our understanding of scripture, not the other way around as you keep insisting.
    Whether a bible scholar, or a spirit led prophet, both are subject to either pride or humility and can make their source (scripture or Spirit) say whatever they want it to say. (Hence the plethora of denominations.)
    Without humility neither the bible nor the spirit are of value. To claim that the bible is the sole end of everything is missing the point when, as history demonstrates, it is constantly mishandled.
    Do you mean to say that you can't recognise the God of Love when you are in his presence? Go back to your bible and see how the followers of Jesus recognised who he was. They didn't go to their bibles.
    Matt16v15He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."17And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.…

    Peter understood who Jesus was because the Father revealed it by the Holy Spirit whispering straight into Peter's human spirit. But then maybe it wasn't the Father, but the devil who told Peter who Jesus was. LOL
     
  3. You might want to go back and reread what Jesus said back to Peter.

    Mat 16:16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
    Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

    Who do you think "confirmed" to Peter what the Father spoke to him? Jesus, who happens to be the Word of God. If you decide to take away God's Holy Word written in the Bible you are on very shaky ground!!
     
  4. This is completely meaningless in regard to the previous comments.
    There is no reference to the bible in this story, and it simply confirms that Peter's witness came from the Holy Spirit alone.
    Jesus then confirming it to Peter alters that fact not one iota.

    Then to pretend that somehow "I have decided to take away God's Holy Word written in the bible" is utter nonsense! Please refrain from such foolish accusations.
     
  5. This is where you are completely off course. You are clearly exalting the bible as God.
    Look at what you wrote above.-
    "The written Word of God that contains all the fullness of the Godhead bodily......"
    It explains your previous comments and clearly shows that you idolise the bible!
    How can you be so misled as to think that a printed book could contain the fullness of Godhead bodily? Have you no comprehension of what the word bodily means? Was the bible crucified for you, because that is what your belief system demands?

    You might want to reconsider what you said in the context of the following verse.
    Jn21v24
    This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true. 25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.


    You believe that your little bible, a few thousand pages long, can contain the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Here we have John the apostle passing his verdict on the subject, that the world isn't even big enough to contain a such a book! Not only that, John makes it clear that the book merely contains the testimonies of what Jesus did, not that the book itself is anything more than a book.
     
  6. #46 CCW95A, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
    I do not think I have ever known anyone who calls them self a Christian to have such disdain for the Bible. Why is that.? Is it because you say you have the Holy Spirit, and now have no more need for such nonsense? Evidently you do not consider the Bible that contains scriptures which was God breathed by the Holy Spirit to be needed. If you truly are filled with the Holy Spirit then you know that God's written Word of God has the same authority as the spoken Word. Jesus proved that when he was tempted by the Devil and told the devil, "it is written". How do you know when the Spirit of God says something to you if it really is of God?
    What proof do you have?

    1Co 4:6.. I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

    If you do not like the Bible, than how are you going to know if you have gone, "beyond what is written"? You can not!!!

    Unlike you I believe every Word written in the Bible as that is where I get my life from.
    The Apostle Paul wrote to the Church telling them every thing he "wrote" to them in his epistles are the "commandments of God", and anyone who does not believe that is "ignorant". Sounds like to me the "written" Word of God is pretty important!

    1Co 14:37.. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
    1Co 14:38.. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

    The Apostle John wrote in his Gospel that what he had written was for the sole purpose of people reading it so they might believe and have life!!!
    But according to you we didn't need our, "little Bible" as it is no longer needed!!

    Joh 20:31.. but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    When Holy Spirit comes he will guide us into all the truth!! what truth? We do not need the Word of God because we have the Holy Spirit!!!
    What does the Holy Spirit lead into? The Word of God!!!!!

    Joh_16:13.. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    Joh_17:17.. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

    If you say you have the Holy Spirit then what is he leading you into if you no longer need God's Holy Word written in the Bible?

    I want to know how exactly you are planning to become perfect, and thoroughly furnished unto all good works without the written Word of God? Tell me!!

    2Ti 3:14.. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    2Ti 3:15.. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    2Ti 3:16.. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2Ti 3:17.. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Do you know all the mysteries of God? How are you going to know any mystery if you neglect the written Word of God which Paul wrote?

    Eph 3:3.. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    Eph 3:4.. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    Eph 3:5.. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

    Tell me brother, were is your "hope"? How are you going to have any hope with out knowing the written Word of God? Your not!!!

    Rom 15:4.. For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

    How is any Christian going to have any success in this life if we do not know the "written" Word of God?

    Jos 1:8.. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

    Guess what? My "little Bible" does these all things mentioned above.

    Ooh, by the way.....

    Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    In him who? Jesus Christ who is the Word of God!!!!
     
  7. Guys, there is no need to throw accusations at each other. You are both in the wrong for doing so.
     
    Francis Drake likes this.
  8. Brother anyone who declares that the Bible does not "contain" the Word of God falls within my cross hairs. I will defend that to my very last breath no matter what.
    What would you say to the Apostle Paul if he was here on this forum, and he said this......

    Act 13:9.. Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
    Act 13:10.. And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

    Or when Jesus said this......

    Joh_8:44.. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    Speaking the Word of God is not always done in pleasantness.
     
  9. My brother, I respect your stance but the reason I said that you are throwing accusations is because you are accusing him of saying things that he isn't(and he is doing the same to you). I read all of what both of you wrote. He did not say that the bible does not contain the word of God. He said that the bible is not The Word of God....as in the bible itself is not Jesus/God, but that it contains the word if God.
     
    Francis Drake likes this.
  10. Brother go back and read post 40. This is what he said....

    I really don't want to go down this route as it digresses from the thread, but you asked me, "Brother, does not the Bible "contain" the Word (Logos) of God?"
    To which I reply, most certainly not!
     
  11. I went back and read post #40 and His position seems to be that the Logos of God(Word of God) is a person...Jesus Himself. So because He is a person than the bible cannot be Him. He does acknowledge that the bible contains some of the words of God but not every word He has ever spoken.
     
    Francis Drake likes this.
  12. Let me ask you a question. When you first heard the Word of God either by reading it or someone quoting the scriptures. When you received that Word and believed what was said, and you became "born again" by that exact same seed by the power of Holy Spirit. Is Jesus Christ dwelling inside you completely, or do you only have a small part of him in you? After all the Bible does not contain all the Words of God. How much of the Word of God do we need in us for Christ to dwell inside us in his fullness? Does Jesus Christ dwell in his fullness in every Word.
     
  13. I read the word of God and received it as the truth. Those words caused me to believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour and to put my faith in Him, thus being born again and saved. The words were a vehicle for me to believe in a person(Jesus), It was Jesus who saved me not the words themselves. Jesus said, " you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, but they testify of Me, but you won't come to me that you may have life."

    Yes, I received all of Him, not just a part. I don't know if Jesus dwells in His fullness in every word He speaks.
     
    Francis Drake likes this.
  14. Brother, the Words you heard where not just from just your basic worldly thinking, they had to come from the Bible which is where we receive the Gospel from. If it was not from the "word of God" there can be no salvation, because Jesus is the Word of God.

    1Pe 1:23.. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    This is why Jesus spoke about "sowing" the Word of God. These words do not come from inside our head, or whatever we want them to be. They come from scriptures which are in the Bible.

    Heb 10:7.. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    Joh 20:31.. but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    You said the Word was a vehicle for you to believe. You are absolutely right!!! The Word of God is a vehicle which is exactly how God travels. "He sends his Word and it never returns void....". Inside every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God contains ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily!!!

    Col 2:8.. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    Col 2:9..
    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    God's body is his Word, and in his Word everything he is dwells in his fullness!!! God sent his Son, the Word of God and it became flesh, and within Jesus his Father dwelled in his fullness, reconciling the world unto himself. Read the next verse that goes along with this scripture.

    Col 2:9.. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    Col 2:10.. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    You were born again by that "seed" of the Word of God, and now you are dwelling inside him in his fullness!!!
     
  15. CCW95A. I get completely lost in your longwinded responses, but would you please please cease from making false accusations against me, particularly in regard to my supposed "distain" of the bible.
    Contrary to your accusations, I love the scriptures and have been reading them diligently for 40+ years.
    Most of your accusations are just straw man arguments against things I neither think, nor have I said. Maybe it would be better to respond to the thing I actually said rather than the things you have attributed to me.
    Let me repeat myself.-
    "I love the scriptures."
    And again.-
    "I love the scriptures, they are God breathed, extremely valuable for growth and maturity."
    Did you get that, now perhaps you might like to unwind a little and look at what I actually said.
    I shall address one point alone, so if you don't mind, please try and stick to that alone. If you want to address other things, such as what I have said about the Holy Spirit vs scripture being the final arbiter, then perhaps do it in a separate comment to avoid confusion.


    I asked you several times for your definition of the "Word of God". In comment 36 you gave the following answer.-
    "You know, the Bible. The written Word of God that contains all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, that is Spirit and it is life!"
    Surely, you cannot seriously mean the bible contains the fullness of the Godhead bodily? A statement like that leads to several direct inescapable consequences.
    The bible died for us.
    We should pray to the bible and worship it.
    The bible now sits on the throne on high.
    The above 3 points are true for the Godhead bodily, ie. Jesus, if the Godhead bodily is contained in the bible, then these statements are completely justified.
    Need I go further? Your definition of the "word of God" being the bible has no scriptural basis.
    Jesus alone is the Logos, the word who died for us.
    Jesus alone contains the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    Jesus is not a book.
    The bible is a book containing some of the testimony of Jesus. It is God breathed.
     
  16. You have already gone of the rails, and are now in the ditch again. Can you not read? What did I say? Do you know what a "period" means in English? It means "stop", and go to the next sentence!!! You are rewriting what I said? Read it again, and this time open your eyes to what I said.

    "You know, the Bible. The written Word of God that contains all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, that is Spirit and it is life!"
     
  17. The sentence you have underlined is all I needed.
     
  18. Brother, where in the Bible do we find "the Word of God"?
     
  19. #59 Francis Drake, May 28, 2015
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
    See my comment No38.
    John 1v1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

    Heb4v12For the word of God (Logos) is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

    Rev19v11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.…
     
  20. #60 Francis Drake, May 28, 2015
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
    There is a regular debate over whether the bible is, or is not, the final arbiter/authority over hearing the whisper of the Holy Spirit.
    This debate has been thoroughly hammered back and forth not just in this forum, but in many others I have visited. I try not to get too involved because people from both camps (including me) get a little hot under the collar. However I just wanted to air some fresh thoughts that to date, I haven't seen aired.

    The bible vs the Holy Spirit, where does the buck stop?
    The answer is neither, because the buck actually stops with me and my ego. I am the one who makes that choice, not God, and I am sure that I have now just offended half the readers, but lets look at some facts.
    Whether prophesying or bible teaching, everyone in the body of Christ is subject to pride and or humility in varying levels. It is these two factors that influence the truth more than everything else put together.

    Theologians quite rightly fear that false prophets will lead the church astray.
    As someone who has a teaching ministry, as well as a prophetic ministry, I understand this, but with my prophet's hat on, I would guess that there are equal or perhaps more congregations being led astray by false teaching than by false prophets. I say this because there are very few churches that claim to be prophet based, rather than bible based.
    However in both the prophetic and the teaching ministries it is not the medium being used, but pride that is doing the damage!

    1Tim4v1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

    I bring this scripture because it is a warning about the teaching of doctrines of demons. ie. it is not directly about prophetics, but about false teachers.
    But has anyone noticed something quite significant here. If this is about doctrines of demons, then these teachers must wittingly or unwittingly be hearing demonic whispers among their thoughts, even though they don't even count themselves as prophets.

    Anyone wishing to study the bible must do it prayerfully, seeking God for understanding. Unless we do it this way, we will interpret scripture by intellect alone, ie. a Tree of Knowledge interpretation, and we know who inhabits the tree of Knowledge! Vast amounts of theology is academia at work. They can prove anything they want from their bible studies and many do so as Timothy makes clear. Pride means that their ears are closed to truth, even though they might have a doctorate in theology. Unfortunately a doctorate is demanded by many churches before anyone would be considered for a leadership post. There are few examinations to discern what spirit that theologian has been following.

    Thus to make scripture alone the arbiter of what the Holy Spirit might whisper is a flawed measure. Unless humility before God is evident, nothing is certain. Everybody, christian and non christian are subject to the realm of the spirit. Those who resist the ministry of the Holy Spirit whispering to people today would be completely deaf and blind to the idea that demons have given them that notion! Thus they certainly do hear in the spirit, just the wrong spirit, otherwise doctrines of demons would be impossible. The prime reason for this, is pride!

    One final afterthought. Here we see Peter's reaction to a vision sent by the Holy Spirit.
    Acts10v9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

    14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”


    15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

    16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.


    Here we see Peter receiving a vision, falling back on scriptural authority to interpret the vision, then rejecting the vision three times. God had to overrule Peter's comprehension of scripture.
    So we see that the Holy Spirit trumps scripture at times, or at least what we personally believe of scripture, and that's the problem.

    Prophets and teachers both must keep soft hearts before the Holy Spirit, otherwise they lay themselves open to demonic, rather than Holy Spirit direction.
    All five ministries are necessary in the church, working humbly together and not in a hierarchy of importance, otherwise it is a church of man not God.
     

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