God Is Not Everywhere

Noting what others do whether good, bad or indifferent is not judgement - holding those notes against the person, who's actions you don't like, to subtract from his/her humanity is judgement and the Good Book tells us not to do it. Lest we get tarred with the same brush. You asked why sinners always use that quote - Judge not, etc - I was trying to point out we all are sinners. And we tend to be nonappreciative, sometimes, of someone's pointing out our grey spots when their's are black. That is not to say that people with good in their heart should not try to help others - but you are going to have a mighty hard time to help anyone when you go in with negatives and judgement and you won't change a thing. Just saying for the final time - leave the judgement to Jesus.
 
Silk, I wanted to give you something Biblically so that you do not think that you are being ganged up on and that there is a battle of conflicting Scriptures out of which we can choose the ones that fit our argument.

This thought of "Judge not lest you be judged" has caused more questions over the years than probably any other.

In Matt. 7:1-5 which is the part of the post you made. Jesus was NOT forbidding the formation of opinions concerning the character and conduct of other people, because such judgment is always right if we have the right means of judging..........
"by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt. 7:16-20).

John 7:24 records Jesus teaching us saying........Now watch this closely Silk and others.........................
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment".

Do you see it??? From the mouth of God we see................."BUT JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT".

Oooops! That kind of changes things a little dosen't it?

You see, only God sees the heart, but if a person drinks, gambles, swears, steals, lies and bears the fruits of sin, we are not judging that person when we say that he is a sinner, for the person who continues in known sin is not of God (1 Cort, 6:9-10). We are in fact making a statement of an observation NOT a "presumption".

Jesus Himself reproved error and evil and the fruits of sinners. So did the apostles. Paul chraged Timothy in 2 Tim. 4:2 to,
"Preach the Word, be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine".

When Jesus said to "JUDGE NOT", He was speaking of presumptuously unertaking to pass judgment upon others----a judgment which may be unkind, unjust, unfounded and extremely unchristian. Such practice is very common today and the people most likly to pass presumptuous judgment on others are just like the Pharisees.

They put on a show of religion and knowledge but then condemn others in the same breath. Jesus said in Luke 18:9-14 of the two men that the publican went home justified rather than the Pharisee.

The Sermon on the Mount teaches us that in all things we should regard others as we would have them think of us. The bottom line is......If we do not forgive others, we need not expect God to gorgive us. If we show no mercy to others, do not expect mercy from God. God will deal with us as we have dealt with others, for from the heart come the issues of life and God looks on the heart.

So, in other words, I agree with you in that we are not to pass judgment against our fellowman by a presumptuouse comment and God will not be forced to pass like judgment against us. But there is a definate deferrance between "presumption, and observation".

That's an excellent piece of biblical teaching, Major.
 
Noting what others do whether good, bad or indifferent is not judgement
Silk, if you go back to where this rabbit trail began and read forward you will see that Judging the Fruit of these two cult is exactly the basis o0f what you have climbed on me for. Again I'll say it, they do not worship Jesus and it is He that is the Christ and Christians, followers of the Christ, worship Hi as the second person of the Trinity.
 
Silk, if you go back to where this rabbit trail began and read forward you will see that Judging the Fruit of these two cult is exactly the basis o0f what you have climbed on me for. Again I'll say it, they do not worship Jesus and it is He that is the Christ and Christians, followers of the Christ, worship Hi as the second person of the Trinity.

Bill - Little Flower left this on another thread


my response was as follows: It's good to see one group who has not thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Who care for the mislead, and identify correctly where the problems are and how to correct it. An excellent example of discernment as opposed to judgement.
 
Bill - Little Flower left this on another thread

my response was as follows: It's good to see one group who has not thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Who care for the mislead, and identify correctly where the problems are and how to correct it. An excellent example of discernment as opposed to judgement.
Silk,
I am deeply grieved! You have condemned me, repeatedly, for speaking to obey the Great Commission, Matt. 28:18-20 and now that I have asked you to agree to disagree (Amos 3:3) and are now parting yourself, (Matt. 16:11-12) and leaving a man of God that seeks ro unite all with the truth.

Your posting of the Watch Tower warning from Witnesses that are in open rebellion to their own Heretical teaching just floors me. I'm on the way to the VA, more later.
 
Silk,
I am deeply grieved! You have condemned me, repeatedly, for speaking to obey the Great Commission, Matt. 28:18-20 and now that I have asked you to agree to disagree (Amos 3:3) and are now parting yourself, (Matt. 16:11-12) and leaving a man of God that seeks ro unite all with the truth.

Your posting of the Watch Tower warning from Witnesses that are in open rebellion to their own Heretical teaching just floors me. I'm on the way to the VA, more later.

Some are JW's in rebellion, some are people who have moved on from JW to different churches, some claim they are agnostic. I don't have a problem with "discernment". And it grieves me as well to realize that while I have not condemned you, I believe that one shouldn't judge others. I agree that we disagree. Like you, I feel I need to speak out to the "truth", not everyones agrees, apparently. I think you love God, and I know I do. I continue to keep you in my prayers. After reading thru my posts - not just on this thread but on the 3 threads where it has been discussed - I have said that I don't agree with the two groups theology, apparently for the same reasons as you and most others. When I run into such, a debate with them is sure to happen. I haven't run into any in ages - could be because I am blacklisted by the JW's in my locality - dunno, don't care. I'm opinionated but I don't waste time judging folks. Altho, to be fair, I guess I can agree with your points on lambasting misleadership of groups of people. If that's what you have been talking about, in essence - we agree.
 
Some are JW's in rebellion, some are people who have moved on from JW to different churches, some claim they are agnostic. I don't have a problem with "discernment". And it grieves me as well to realize that while I have not condemned you, I believe that one shouldn't judge others. I agree that we disagree. Like you, I feel I need to speak out to the "truth", not everyones agrees, apparently. I think you love God, and I know I do. I continue to keep you in my prayers. After reading thru my posts - not just on this thread but on the 3 threads where it has been discussed - I have said that I don't agree with the two groups theology, apparently for the same reasons as you and most others. When I run into such, a debate with them is sure to happen. I haven't run into any in ages - could be because I am blacklisted by the JW's in my locality - dunno, don't care. I'm opinionated but I don't waste time judging folks. Altho, to be fair, I guess I can agree with your points on lambasting misleadership of groups of people. If that's what you have been talking about, in essence - we agree.
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.

I'll try this onchttp://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/god-is-not-everywhere.34811/page-4#post-281460e more because you, just, seem not to be agreeable to agree to disagree and go forward. Verse one cannot be extracted and used as a stand alone example of Christian conduct.

1Cor. 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have to judge things pertaining to this life, [2] do ye set them to judge who are of no account in the church? 5 I say this to move you to shame. What, cannot there be found among you one wise man who shall be able to decide between his brethren, 6 but brother goeth to law with brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?

Paul is dealing with this very thing in the Corinthians. It is appointed unto mankind to be a judge for the Angels in Heaven and that being the case how can we not look at our brother's sin and then, judging him to be in error seek to correct this problem for his benefit?

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast out the mote out of thine eye; and lo, the beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you.

Here we find the directions from the Christ by which we must judge. The beam and the splinter are references to both my sin and to the judged. Before I can, righteously, judge my brother, I must not be hooked into the same sin I am judging. i.e. If I am sneaking over to the leggy blond's house on the corner, I need to get my own life in order before I can help my brother in the Young Adult's Class that is running around on his wife.

The fact that I have judged him to be in sin is not at issue here. The issue is, "Is my house clean?" You do not know me but I promise you, since Jan. 1, 1990 I have been sweeping the floors, scrubbing the walls and hosing the windows... regularly. Am I telling you that, like Jesus, I am without sin? God forbid! I work on recurring sins every day. I was justified by the death of Jesus on the cross but now I am busy seeking righteousness while seeking to lead people like the JWs and the Mormons to be justified and to begin the journey to seek after righteousness.

If I, and this is me, fail to confront sin and take the position that they have found their own path when there is, in reality, only one door into Heaven, I need to begin a Spiritual Inventory, immediately! Old Testament or New, God demands obedience and I have chosen to serve... even the Lost.
 
Bill - you ARE not directing your rebukes to the groups addressed but rather in this forum. Where there are none so far as I know. When will "we" be judging angels? In the end times - saints will.
I have no idea where that url lead except the 4th page. (the one were on). In post 67 I post: I agree that we disagree. I even post at the end, perhaps thru misunderstanding, that we might actually agree if you are "discerning"/judging misleaders of groups. I'm ready to move on.
 
Bill - you ARE not directing your rebukes to the groups addressed but rather in this forum. Where there are none so far as I know. When will "we" be judging angels? In the end times - saints will.
I have no idea where that url lead except the 4th page. (the one were on). In post 67 I post: I agree that we disagree. I even post at the end, perhaps thru misunderstanding, that we might actually agree if you are "discerning"/judging misleaders of groups. I'm ready to move on.



The Greek word for “judge,” krino, also means “to rule or govern.” Could this mean that we will have authority over the holy angels, for they have no sin for which to be “judged” in the sense of “condemned.” Most likely, the meaning of this passage is that believers in heaven will take part in the judgment of the fallen angels and exercise some authority over the holy angels

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/judge-angels.html#ixzz2THsiIFW3
 
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