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Free-will Vs The Perfect Work Of Paitience

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mitspa, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. The great conflict of our obedience to Christ, dwells in the "will" of self or "free-will" against the Will of God working in us through His Spirit.

    Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

    This scripture was a bit confusing to me, until I began to understand the Cross of the Lord? Its is the Cross that demands that we die to the will of self, and it is the Cross that supplies the knowledge of Gods Will. Now it is through the process of patience, that we are brought into conflict with our own will and desires and that which Gods has planned for us. Our temporal "will" must be brought into subjection to Gods eternal will. God in His wisdom may very well place a desire in us for some good thing, but He may put the desired thing at a distance in temporal time, from us? It is in this time of patience and waiting that He is purging from us the things of our own will, the things in us and in our own desires that would work to pollute or corrupt that good thing He has planned for us. In patience, a daily dying to the self-will is being fulfilled in us. The idea and truth of walking in Gods good, acceptable and perfect will is a dying to ones own will. The process of perfection unto Gods Will is in the rejection of the confidence we might have in ourselves. We must approach God as children, in admitted weakness and as fools and learn to put our confidence in Him and His grace alone.
    God calls me Olivia and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  2. I would suggest that those who make a boast in "free-will" would go reckon at yonder Cross.. Christ the Lord, never even hinted that He would do anything except that which He knew was the Fathers Will. He did not want to be crucified or suffer in and of His own will as a man. But he gave us the example of what it means to "walk in the Spirit" to always be surrendered unto the Spirit and its leading.. This is Gods will for us, not some religious boast about how we have free-will? Go to the Cross and see if your boast in your free-will, has any place in the truth of His Work?
  3. It is interesting how the same verse of Scripture says different things to different people. While I do not disagree with your comments, that particular verse in James says something else to me.

    It screams ENDURANCE to me. Endurance is a virtue that very few people seem to experience fully IMO. Way too often we grasp relief from some kind of trouble or situation so eagerly and quickly that we fail to receive the entire lesson that God intended for us to experience. I do not say that to condemn others because I am the worst offender probably of all of us.

    "Let patience have her perfect work". That cautions all of us to observe our attitudes more than our circumstances. If we do that, we will realize the road to Christian maturity is actually a very long road. Perfection in the absolute sense, however, will be reserved for the life to come as seen in 1 John 1:8.


    One of the things I have seen on our web site here is the "lack of encouragement from others.". IF we are to endure life and the situations that it brings, we all need to learn the gift of encouragement to others. I see more challenging comments and opinions than I do encouraging ones. Some of us are quick to point out the errors od others and the mistakes that others make. Now I am not in any way referring to comments that are made to those who are false teachers and bring us another gospel or blatantly misquote and misdirect the Scriptures. That is for another thread.

    I hope that all of you have a real, visible group of encouragers in your life. Every single one of us needs to hear the words............
    "You are doing great; Wonderful message; I am praying for you"! We all need someone who will cheer us up.

    You know as well as I do that some people will gloat over your failures and mistakes, and missteps. May God in His grace raise up those who will rejoice with you in victories and cry with you when you cry. That to me is encouragement.
    Ravindran, autumn oddity and Mitspa says Amen and like this.
  4. Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

    I would say that one of my greatest faults is a lack of godly patience and this has very much been a struggle for me. How many times have I been cast down and brought to earnest prayer in my frustration and impatient attitude? Now having some years behind me in the Lord, I can look back at the work the Lord was doing in me in these times of waiting. I can see the struggle of my own will and the failure to trust God in all aspects of the life I would live unto Him. How many times have I said "why Lord"? Every time He would answer "Just trust Me son"... I know that I have many more "just trust Me's" to come.. but I tell you in my waiting, a part of that old man has died, apart of my own will has surrendered to His Will....
    Ravindran and autumn oddity say Amen and like this.
  5. Good stuff my brother and have a Blessed Easter!
  6. Thank you my friend..may His great peace and joy be upon you and those you love this fine Day....:D
  7. I agree with a lot that has been said here! "I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn't receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it." Luke 18:17. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life." John 6:63. Good! :)

    But...."Its is the Cross that demands that we die to the will of self, and it is the Cross that supplies the knowledge of Gods Will."

    We can not die more because we are already dead. We died with Him on that cross! "3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:3-11.

    "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:34. Jesus knew the will of the Father. That was His food, His sustenance. He relied solely on the ability of the Father to do His will. "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." John 5:30. We know that Christ is the Firstborn among many brothers and sisters. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29. We share in His destiny also...following in His steps from start to finish in this life. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Romans 8:17. So then, now, His Word supplies the knowledge of His will, enlivened by the Holy Spirit. And that is our substance. "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious." 1 Peter 2:2-3. And through the Ability of Christ, we carry out that will. For we can not do it ourselves. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:15.

    So the greatest challenge is not letting doubt (those things that choke the seed! Matthew 13:3-9) spring up regarding His Words...and keeping us out of the way of His Work! "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28. "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 1:24-25. That in part goes back to what you said. :)
  8. we are called to die daily.. or in essence surrender daily to Gods Will.
  9. "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matthew 16:24. "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    Reckon yourself dead. Not dying, dead. Says the Word. Each day we take up our our cross (His cross!), for we were crucified with Him and now through Him we live in new life. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20. For if you still consider your sin nature alive (including self will) - a thing that needs to die each day - you get nowhere. "And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand." Mark 3:25. Two opposing natures - one of sin and death and the other of Righteousness and Life - can not exist in the same being. It is impossible. "....For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14b.

    "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Romans 8:6-10. One or the other. That can not change day by day.

    But it is in the mind. The mind needs to unlearn the old patterns from the old man....it needs to be bathed in the Word of God - fed.....it needs to be renewed in the Spirit day by day. "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." Ephesians 4:22-24. "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day." 2 Corinthians 4:16. This so that the reality of what we are in Christ will sink in. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17. So then "Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us." Romans 8:37.
    JG27_chili likes this.
  10. #10 Mitspa, Apr 21, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
    Well look do you reckon yourself dead everyday or just one time? Im not sure what point your trying to make, but we die daily to the self-will and walk daily in Gods will. None of these scriptures you keep trying to post have any relation to what you are trying to affirm.
    Walking in the Spirit is a daily walk and the flesh and the Spirit are always at conflict.

    2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

    1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily

    Ga 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
    15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
    16 And as many as walk according to this rule,
  11. This is like saying I had faith ten years ago..so I don't need it now? No this is a work of patience and endurance..a daily dying to self and a daily walk in the Spirit.
    JG27_chili likes this.
  12. If you do not understand the point...how do you know the Scriptures do not affirm it? For you do not understand it. :)

    Here are some questions for you: is the death of the old nature once, or does the old nature need to be put to death again everyday? And this patience and endurance...does it come from us? Are these traits that me must keep strong in order to get ourselves to the finish line?

    I ask these (and I am keeping this going) because there is something here that might need addressing, and your answer to my questions....if you answer...will determine that.
  13. Well the point I think your trying to make?..does not make biblical sense. Of course the old nature is the flesh and the scriptures clearly teach the believers is yet subject to the flesh unless they walk in the Spirit. These things are taught throughout the epistles. Patience and endurance describe the walk that we walk out in our daily lives lived unto Christ. And in as much as we surrender to Gods Will they are dependent upon our continued obedience to faith and the will of the Spirit. These "traits" describe a continued process in the will of God, not sure what you are asking? I think you are just throwing stuff out to see if you can get something to stick and confuse the issue? Your post make NO BIBLICAL sense.
  14. #14 Mitspa, Apr 21, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
    And I see no evidence that you have the ability to decide "what needs to be addressed" to this point you have shown no knowledge of basic biblical terms or there meaning as it relates to a walk in the truth of God and His Will.

    What is your big issue here anyway? You don't like that the scriptures demand you not just say "you have died with Christ", but require an actual dying to ones own selfish desires? You don't believe in a continued obedience and living a life in the Spirit as the Cross demands?
  15. Is this some sort of Calvinist nonsense? where we are saved because we decided to think we are "elect''? That we really don't have to conform to the Will of God as the scriptures teach?
  16. You quoted yourself, are you debating yourself? I'm a bit confused. :confused:
  17. "You don't like that the scriptures demand you not just say "you have died with Christ", but require an actual dying to ones own selfish desires? You don't believe in a continued obedience and living a life in the Spirit as the Cross demands?"

    Look again. Those words are the Lord's. "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20. "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." Romans 6:4.

    Those of us who are saved have been put to death with Christ. That we may walk in the newness of life. Death so that we can walk in new life. "For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God." Colossians 3:3. How can that life be new if we did not really die with Christ? "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." 2 Corinthians 5:17. How has the old passed away if the old man - in any form - endures on? If he is not dead once and for all - then he can not pass away. Or is God not being literal?

    The cross demands death. And that death is finished.

    "Of course the old nature is the flesh and the scriptures clearly teach the believers is yet subject to the flesh unless they walk in the Spirit."

    "In him you also were circumcised—not, however, with a circumcision performed by human hands, but by the removal of the fleshly body, that is, through the circumcision done by Christ. 12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with him through your faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead. 13 And even though you were dead in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he nevertheless made you alive with him, having forgiven all your transgressions. 14 He has destroyed what was against us, a certificate of indebtedness expressed in decrees opposed to us. He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross." Colossians 2:11-14.

    Circumcision? The removal of the flesh. How can a Christian be subject to what has been removed?

    My point is this: the old man is dead. Period. If the old man is still alive (and he must be...if we have to die to him again and again everyday), then we have no hope. For that old man was a slave to sin. "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin." Romans 6:6-7.
  18. You better stay with social type issues and food related topics, this might be water a little too deep for you? :p
  19. I'm okay, I know how to swim. :)
  20. I still don't see what point you think your making? Yes Paul was speaking of the truth HE WALKED IN daily. Not some truth he believed 10 years ago.. And of course we who are born-again are New Creations, but we must walk daily in that truth according the Spirit and not the flesh. The "flesh" -old man, is only as dead as we crucify the flesh in our daily walk in the Spirit. One must ignore the majority of Pauls epistles and correction to the church to believe the "old man" has no power in the believer.

    Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

    Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

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