Disasters that Befall on this World

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Hanna Jin, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. On a physical aspect of things, yes, it is by "nature" that these natural disasters occur such as the earth's plate structure shifting, or a underwater earthquake, and etc.
    However, we must see all things, even the events and natural disasters that occur in this world, on a physical aspect AND what is written in the Word of God.
    The reason for these natural disasters and chaos that are happening around the world is not solely because of the "stupidity" of mankind, but that it is God's judgement TO mankind.
    Even though Jesus Christ had died for all our sins, we are still entitled to recieve the retribution for our sins for it is written in Hebrews 10:26-28, we will receieve judgement if we continue to sin even after receive the knowledge of the truth.
    So I agree with your point when you says that at times we are quick to blame God or Satan for these results, because most of of the time, it is man himself that cause these disasters to befall.
  2. Very nice response. Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum.

    I think I need to clarify my comment a little. IMHO the events that take place, say a volcano erupting is from God because God control all things either by direct force or indirect non-action. So when a volcano erupts and kills thousands of people living at its base, it was the stupid actions of people who chose to live where they should not have lived.

    Does that make better sense????
  3. But I am not 'Q' ;)
    Major likes this.
  4. The flip side to all this is the Lord's miraculous intervention to save lives from what should/could have been certain death.
    I'm remembering the Apollo 13 mission that almost cost the entire crew their lives. True there have been some horrible accidents, but that was one that had an amazing ending.
    I'm sure there were millions of people world wide praying that the Lord would provide a miracle and He did.
    Abdicate and Major say Amen and like this.
  5. I just noticed! It was 'Startrek the next generation', not starwars.
    not that it matters.
  6. The opposer, satan, has often been given more credit than is due it. Stating that it is the god of this world is a partial misunderstanding. Many choose to interpret scripture to the disadvantage of the Almighty - presuming the opposer has more power than it does. This results in illogical contradiction in doctrines. Is the Lord God of all things or is HE not? Who presumes to remove God from His throne except those who have given their mind to satan?

    Scripture states that satan is NOT autonomous in its actions. It has to get permission from the throne of heaven before it can do anything (book of Job). In addition, the authority it may have in our lives was given to it from us (Genesis chapter 3). These are not the qualities of an autonomous earthly god. References to satan being the god of this world are similar to references pagans make of their gods. Carved sticks of wood or sculpted pieces of stone are said to be gods by their pagan devotees. They give credit to their false deities that does not exist. Are these things gods? Certainly not. Scripture says God IS God and that there is NO OTHER? If there is no other, then how is satan god of this world or any other? Which is it? Is satan god or is it not? Is scripture mistaken when it says GOD IS the only god? References to satan being god are purely academic and metaphorical - a figure of speech. A figure of a thing is not a thing in fact.

    Satan fell from heaven.

    It's position there was as a covering arch-angel. The Bible chronicles its earthly representation on the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant. Upon or beside the mercy seat (the mercy seat is actually the lid or top of the box/ark) stand two angels. They are called covering angels, one of which was satan. We don't know the name of the second one. Satan fell from heaven and in the process was stripped of all power and authority. When it arrived on earth it obtained its authority by tempting Adam and Eve to give their authority to it instead of to God. Transfer of authority is accomplished by obedience.

    That which you obey is that to which you give your authority.

    From Genesis 3 to the present era satan has been stealing authority from mankind. It cannot act unless it gets authority from God or from man. "As it is on earth so shall it be in heaven." For six thousand years this thieving and lying and murder has continued.

    Adam & Eve enjoyed autonomy on the earth until they fell. The second birth does not restore it fully. Those who surrender to Christ obtain their guidance and authority from Him. They have none of their own except that which is given to them and that only partially until Christ returns again. This is why there is a struggle between the flesh and the spirit, between mankind and satan who steals it (book of Romans).

    Do not talk to me about what the opposer is doing or what the opposer plans on doing. I only want to hear what Jesus commands of me. Christ will take care of the tempter. I am too busy with serving Him to worry about the opposer. That's my job. Worrying about the opposer is God's job.

    and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  7. Brother that does not even line up with scripture.
  8. I am not to follow Christ? How does that not line up with scripture?
    I am not to renew my mind in the likeness of Jesus and His attitudes and habits? How does that not line up with scripture?

    Does scripture tell us to spend considerable amounts of time dancing the devil's tune or trying to suppress its activity? Does scripture admonish this action?
    Does scripture tell us to study the ways of the devil and to speak to each other about it constantly (as though it had real power in the world)? Does Christ command this?

    It does not.

    I note that you object to my assertions. All of them were accompanied with scriptural references. My assertions are based upon scripture, not subjective opinion.


    I submit to the reader that ALL of the devilish activity observed among the members of the body of Christ are due to sin on their part. THEY have flirted with pet sins, private sins, closet sins and approved of corporate sins of the wider society. The Bible NEVER justifies sin on the part of anyone - either the unsaved or the just. The post modern church has embraced the heresy that grace allows sin in the life of the believer. This is simply not so. One is saved by grace SO THAT one may live according to the Law. The woman caught in adultery was not forgiven by Jesus so that she could open a brothel. She was forgiven SO THAT she could continue to live her life according to the Law of righteousness and "sin no more".

    "I did not come to abolish the Law. I came to fulfill it." Jesus as quoted by Mathew 5:17

    The post modern church has brazenly taught that grace subverts the Law. In point of fact they are two components of the same thing - the divine work of redemption in the heart of man and in his society. Those who sin apart from the Law will die by the Law. (Romans 2:12) One is save by grace SO THAT one can live a perfect life according to the Law. "Therefore you shall be perfect, even as the Father is perfect." Jesus as quoted by Mathew 5:48. What then is this perfection Jesus is talking about? It is most certainly NOT the freedom to sin willfully. It is the freedom to live without sin according to the Law of Moses (10 words or commandments). Which of these has been abolished? Shall I be saved and thus free of guilt if I walk into a church and murder everyone in sight? No. A thousand times no. The Law still stands and "you shall not kill" remains as God's eternal will. Grace does NOT divorce anyone from the Law. It fulfills the Law. But this is not taught in our churches, which are only concerned with happy talk to fill seats.

    If a man or woman in Christ seeks to diligently strip themselves of every vestige of sin in their lives, in their minds and in their private dark places, Jesus WILL remove the influence of the opposer from them. It may not be done immediately, but it will be done and it will be done permanently. Deliverance ministers often joke among themselves how often those who've been exorcised of demons of various types come back to them in a repossessed condition. Some may argue that its not possible for a Christian to be possessed, but the fact that many cry out for deliverance is proof that something beyond limited understanding of spiritual life is at work among us. That which is at work among us is the power of sin. The post modern church has embraced it - by heretical doctrine, by acknowledging criminal political actions and by approving of social wickedness.

    Christians are called to spend ALL of their time meditating upon scripture and following Christ. All of our time leaves nothing for consideration of the enemy.

    and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  9. You have overlooked what I quoted and built a post.

    You said...
    Do not talk to me about what the opposer is doing or what the opposer plans on doing. I only want to hear what Jesus commands of me. Christ will take care of the tempter. I am too busy with serving Him to worry about the opposer. That's my job. Worrying about the opposer is God's job.

    I said
    Brother that does not even line up with scripture.

    Why? Because no place in the New Testament does God ever say pray about the devil and He will do something about it.
    We are told over and over that we are to do something about it. So to say I just busy my self in the Lord and God keeps the devil away is in error.

    It's that simple.
  10. #50 choir loft, Nov 29, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
    Pray about the devil and God will do something about it - is not in the NT?
    Scripture tells us that God is completely aware of what's going and and does take a firm hand in the issue - with or without our prayers. Our part, as always, is to obey His Law and live righteous lives. His arm is not so short it cannot save.

    Matt 8:28-32 & Luke 8:26-37 Jesus (God) removes demons from the Gadarenes demoniac.
    Luke 4:31-44 Jesus (God) Jesus commands a demon to leave a man during synagogue service.
    Revelation 12:8-9 Devil cast out of heaven.
    1 John 4:4 "...One who is in you is greater than one who is in the world" <- IN the world, not ruler of it.
    James 2:19 "You believe in one God? Good! Even the demons believe and shudder."
    Revelation 20:10 God casts the devil into the lake of fire.

    1 Corinthians 10:20-21 "...I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have part in the table of the Lord and the table of demons"

    Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes." <- armor is a defensive device

    In the book of Jeremiah chapter 7 we are told that the Lord blesses the righteous, but punishes religious hypocrisy even among His own people.

    [8-11] But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless. Will you steal and murder commit adultery and perjury and burn incense to Baal - follow gods you have not known and then come and stand in this house which bears My Name and say, 'we are safe, we are safe to do all these detestable things'? Has this House which bears My Name become a robber's hide-out to you? But I know what's going on says the Lord.

    There are many verses to support my contention that wickedness, especially among those of the House of the Lord, will never be condoned by the Most High. Of more importance than praying about the devil is obeying Mosaic Law, thus accomplishing works and lives of righteousness that God intends for us. Those that do not do so and who attempt to hide pet sins and wickedness will be reprimanded by God.

    "For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household;" - 1 Peter 4:17a

    Man has no power over the spirits either of Heaven or those of the kingdom of the opposer. All we have is given by God, who will not permit His Holy Name to be profaned by anyone for any reason. If we live by His Law, then He will defend us and hear our prayers. If we do not live by God's Law, then our attempts at fighting the devil will be frustrating and of no consequence. The devil always wins when we dance its tune. God always wins period. The big question is whose table will we be found sitting at when Jesus comes at the end of the age?

    Jim, we now find ourselves engaged in a subject that is of intense doctrinal and intellectual discussion. It is important that we address the subject as dispassionately as possible so as to transmit good doctrine to those who come to these pages for instruction and information. I am writing this quickly, so I am certain that some of my words are beyond the borders of current post modern church buzz words and slogans. What I'm saying is that many of the buzz words and slogans are incorrect. Congregations are not being taught to study and think and DO the Word of God. They are only being taught to reiterate the buzz words to be saved. THAT is not enough as I've shown in these few scriptural quotes. I'm sure you must agree.

    My purpose here is to defeat the buzz words and slogans when they do not agree with the Spirit of God as revealed in scripture. Buzz words are a trap laid by the enemy and need to be identified and avoided. Study to show yourself approved - is good advice as I'm sure you agree.

    and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  11. I agree with the above and that's why just pulling bits of scripture to make a point is very dangerous.

    Now then if the scriptures are kept in context, well they will tell us something different.

    So thank you Sir for the reply but you have not shown me anything stating that we don't fight the enemy because God just automatically takes care of the devil for us.

  12. #52 choir loft, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
    - Fighting the enemy begins with salvation in the name of Jesus Christ.
    - It continues with teaching that leads the new convert to adopt the defensive posture recommended in Ephesians 6 (helmet of salvation , sword of spirit, etc.)
    - Fulfillment comes in long term realities and goals (Romans 8:1-16). We are heirs with Christ and we are dead to sin.

    If one is dead to sin, one doesn't have to have an exorcism every time an itinerant preacher comes through town. Being dead to sin means that sin has no power over us, but it also means we are not to be fascinated with the works of the enemy.

    You've heard all this before.

    My reaction is to the current loose living being taught in some churches - that grace is a sort of license to sin. It isn't. Repentance is not taught because such teaching implies spiritual responsibility. This is key - spiritual responsibility - and is a hard thing for some leaders to express (they fear losing the congregation and do not give people credit for having the ability to absorb the idea of spiritual responsibility when in actual fact those who sit in church in Sunday are by and large very familiar with the concept of responsibility).

    Demonic influence is generated by sinful activity. Vultures are attracted to dead meat.(Matt 24:28) You don't see them in the fresh food aisles of the super market, but carrion birds do hang around the dumpsters in back of the building. When Christians wander away from strict observance of those things they've been told to do, the opposer is not far away. When Christians start smelling of dead meat (figuratively speaking) they attract the flies and carrion birds of the kingdom of evil. It's what these ugly creature do - physically as well as spiritually.

    Getting rid of them isn't rocket science.

    It MUST begin with repentance and rededication to the gospel. Uttering chants, slogans, buzz words and mystic prayers are time tested demonic methods of avoiding the obvious - to abandon sin altogether. Hollywood feasts on movies and TV shows where humans, who actually have no autonomous power over any spirit including their own (Romans 7:24-25), foil the actions of evil. It works on screen because people like to think they are in charge. They aren't. The basic theme of the Bible is that God is in charge. Surrender to Him involves Him in the process and His arm is not so short He cannot save. (Isaiah 59:1) Dedication to God means that God is able to pluck His own geese and protect His own people. That's what a god does, by the way.

    When the Bible speaks of the Master of the Universe as Lord and God, it describes two qualities of God.

    Lordship, is a command and obedience quality. We are subject to God's rule and Lordship and are expected to obey.
    Godship means protection. It is totally of, by, and from God and involves protection of God's subjects/children with all the resources at His command. We are subject to God's rule and are expected to trust Him for it.

    Trust and obey, for there’s no other way
    To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

    - hymn by John H. Sammis

    If we surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, He as God is able to deliver us from the power of sin - both within us and from external attack. We are responsible for our actions. God is responsible for our protection. No one can sin and expect God's blessings upon them. It simply doesn't work that way.

    and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

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