Disasters that Befall on this World

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Hanna Jin, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. Disasters happen because of sin. Plain and simple. Deu 28.

    Deuteronomy 28:1-2 (KJV)
    And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe [and] to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. ​

    Deuteronomy 28:15 (KJV)
    But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: ​

    Simple cause and effect.
  2. Calvin again that is after God takes back full control.
    Cturtle likes this.
  3. Can you explain
    Cturtle likes this.
  4. Enjoy and I wish you well.
    God Bless
  5. Hello calvin. It is always good to hear from you. I have tried to send you PM'S but it seems that you have disabled that function.

    The weather is wonderful now in central Fl. 60's in the evenings and 80 in the daytime.

    Trump wins! I could hardly believe it when I was watching it. One of the FOX Network people (Chris Wallace) said at about 9:45 or so,...
    "You know what, Trump just might win this thing" and sure enough he did.

    There are so many corrupt people in D.C. that I do not know if it can be redeemed.

    To answer your question.....Yes I do.

    Not only IMO does God bring judgment but warnings as well.

    There was a book written about 10 years ago which title I can not remember, where the author detailed disasters that happened in the USA when the USA said something or did something which was in disagreement with Israel and where the USA asked Israel to give up Land for peace. Every single time that the USA did that, within 48 hours a disaster hit the USA. It came in the form of forest fires, earthquakes, floods and storm etc.

    Coincidence or the God who created the Promised Land warning the USA to shut up and leave the Jewish land alone.
    calvin likes this.
  6. Jim, I am confused here. Are you trying to say that God did not destroy Jericho or did not part the Red Sea and then bring it down on the Egyptian Army.
    Isn't that the judgment of God?

    Didn't God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for their sin which = the judgment of God.

    Yes, the People prayed to be delivered and God did that, but did He not also cause the Flood which destroyed the world save a boat full of animals and 8 people.

    I am not sure anyone prayed for the Flood, or Jericho to fall down and I do not think anyone would pray for a disaster today. And even if they did, it would be outside of the will of God to do that for anyone wouldn't it?
  7. #27 Major, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
    We can certainly do that. First of all, lets make sure we all understand "dominion". The word dominion means “rule or power over.” God has sovereign power over His creation and has delegated the authority to mankind to have dominion over the animals which is seen in Gen. 1:26.

    David reinforces this truth in Psalms 8:6 where we see.....
    “You made [mankind] rulers over the works of your hands; you put everything under their feet”.

    Humanity was to "subdue" the earth also seen in Gen. 1:28 — and we were to hold a position of command over it; we were placed in a superior role and were to exercise control over the earth and its flora and fauna. Mankind was set up as the ruler of this world.

    This dominion means to maintain order, and it is to be exercised over other creatures not people. It was first given to Adam and his wife and was to be the for the whole human race (Psalms 8:6-8). Man was to have sovereignty over the animal creation and other creatures. Because of our being made in God’s image we were given a higher moral and spiritual nature and we were given the gift of "reason" and were able to think things through. Our capacity for right thinking, knowledge, holiness, and righteousness, would be expressed in our ruling over the other creatures.

    Dominion does not mean we as the church or government are to rule over humans or nations. This wanting to rule over other people (dominion) is from man’s fallen nature. God made man to serve just as Jesus gave us the example as a perfect man- He came to serve.

    And dominion certainly does not mean that man have any power over the Creation of God. We can not move storms, or stop earthquakes and such. We are stewards.

    Again, maybe I am not understanding your thinking but I do not find in the Scriptures that Satan (god of this world as you refer to him) brought the 10 judgments to Egypt, and he did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah or open the earth and shallow Korash. The Bible says God did those things.
  8. It is a "Star Wars" thing.
  9. #29 Cturtle, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
    Hi major,

    Im thinking that your misunderstanding what Jim is saying.

    He is just pointing out that the old testament (old covenant) is different than the new (which is better). And even though every word of Thee Word is for us all, and can be used to better ones life. .. the Blood of Jesus has changed the way things are today.

    The curse and sin yes brought about judgement upon the egyptians and sodom and gamorh.... but in all honesty there was another reason for God showing Himself strong in the the mighty deliverance of The Israelites from egypt.

    In many places in the Bible, we can see that God is not in natural disasters. But the sad thing is that people only want to acknowledge and believe that God is the only one in control, and that He is responsible for destruction, which is simply against His character. In the Bible, when God was in a fire (moses and the burning bush).... or in an earth quake (book of acts)..... or talking to one of the prophets (old testament), there was no destruction.
    Jesus Himself says that the devil comes only to steal, kill, and destroy. Now and after the Resurrection of Jesus from the grave, Grace has been released, the curse is still in effect, but its not God out there bringing destruction on people (saved or unsaved). Its the curse that came from the devil, for Jesus' blood changed everything.

    Fish Catcher Jim and loriT say Amen and like this.
  10. Blessings to you all.
    If God sends disasters in your life then enjoy them.
    God Bless :)
  11. I think sometimes after a disaster, the Lord is saying to people "Have I got your attention yet?"
    with the probable exception of the flood this has been evident that an example is made and others should learn from it.
    Exo 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them, and I will get glory over Pharaoh and all his host, and the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD.” And they did so.

    It is clear that the Lord wanted Egypt to recognize/acknowledge that the God of Israel is the real deal and they should turn to Him.
    But mostly He wanted to get Israel's attention.

    Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
    Maybe no mag 10 earthquake needed here, but there would be disaster of some kind involved.

    Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,
    Ahh dear, still they won't pay attention.

    Rev 16:9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.
    So again just as with Egypt, the Lord is seeking to be given the glory He so richly deserves, but no He still does not have their attention..least not in a positive way.

    Rev 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds.

    can it be any wonder that by this stage the Lord would just give up?

    You should be able to now, but a word of caution....
    Beware Erroneous Gospel Part 2
    I will leave it up to readers to judge the ethics.
  12. That of course means that there is no such thing as a "Personal Message".

    I agree with your examples by the way. That has always been my thought.

    I go back to the 10 plagues against Egypt. IF they had listened to the 1st one, and let the people go, there would not have been 9 more.
  13. Even though there was no destruction as you stated in the Burning bush, or earthquake in Acts, wasn't the purpose of those events to draw attention to something special that God was communicated to man? IF not, why did they take place in the 1st place????

    Then consider Colossians 1:16-17....
    "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

    Those verses tell me that it is Jesus Christ who holds all of nature together. I hear what you are saying, however I can not agree with the idea that Satan is to blame for natural disaster. If he was, then they would not be "natural".

    I have to disagree with the idea you are proposing because nowhere does the Bible suggest that Satan has creative ability or took part in the way the universe was designed to begin with. If the argument is that all natural evil is required for spiritual growth, I would also have to disagree with that as well.. Some natural evil may pull at our hearts to encourage us to get involved in helping others. However, many forms of natural evil probably do not consistently result in a greater good in this way. So, I reject the argument that spiritual growth is the primary reason for the existence of natural evil, if that is where you are going.

    According to the Bible, God isn't a wimp. In fact, the Bible says that God's power is unlimited and that He created the universe through His awesome power. According to the Bible, one of the reasons for the existence of the universe is to declare God's power and glory. So, we wouldn't expect the universe to look wimpy, but it must demonstrate God's power and glory
    calvin likes this.
  14. If you want to see if a disaster is from God or not, look at the death toll. How many times is it reported "miraculously, no one died" or "only 1 died in all this destruction". How can a dead person repent? When God's wrath comes, millions will die. God is out to get people's attention, and massive destruction will little loss of life is His way of saying "Do I now have your attention?" God doesn't execute these judgements out of hate, but out of love. Sin allows the devil to execute God's judgements. Wrath is executed by God Himself. Satan is more like a cop against unrighteousness than against God. The angel of death worked for God on Passover (and many other times) and yet it'll end up in the lake of fire. After all, how can gold be purified without fire, which the trying of our faith is more precious than gold.
  15. Just two small comments....

    I never said that satan had any creative ability. God has already created everything, and satan uses the natural things in this world to do what he wants done. he perverts the things of God. The world is under a curse.

    And dont forget
    1Co 1:25 — 1Co 1:26
    Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
    For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
    1Co 1:27 — 1Co 1:30
    But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

  16. Can you show me where this is in scripture?

    Thanks :)
    If this were true...why does the Word of God call the sin nature "natural" or carnal?
  17. Colossians 1:16 ..............
    "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. "

    1 Chronicles 29:11 ................
    "Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all. "

    Isaiah 45:7 ..................
    "I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things. "

    Ephesians 1:19-21 ..............
    "And what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. "

    Psalm 147:4-5 ...............
    "He determines the number of the stars; he gives to all of them their names. Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure. "

    IMO, the sin nature is not what we were discussing. We are talking about natural disasters. Is the "sin nature" even something that we can discuss now?
  18. God bless you my sister and I do not mean to be argumentative at all. I uselly agree with what you say it is in this case I just think we are going to disagree. I believe that when we do an examination of Scripture we will see that Satan and his demon angels have no control over natural disasters. However, the Devil, our "adversary," must be taken seriously and we should acknowledge his existence and his limited power over the secular world. Satan, a defeated fallen angel, is super-human but not divine, having only the power that God ultimately allows him.

    2 Thessalonians 2:6-11..........
    "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie".

    IMO, If Satan could impact the weather, it would only be by God's permission, and restrained, as in the case of Job. Satan was allowed by God to torment Job in order to test him, and this included "the fire of God" (probably lightning) which "fell from the sky and burned up the sheep and the servants" in Job 1:16. This was followed by a "mighty wind" (possibly a tornado) that destroyed his home and killed his children (vv. 18-19). So if the fire from heaven and the tornado were somehow caused by Satan, they were still under the ultimate control of God for His purposes.

    It is God, not Satan, who controls the weather (Exodus 9:29; Psalm 135:6-7; Jeremiah 10:13).
    God controls the skies and the rain (Psalm 77:16-19).
    God controls the wind (Mark 4:35-41; Jeremiah 51:16).
    God upholds and sustains the universe (Hebrews 1:3).
    God has power over the clouds (Job 37:11-12, 16).
    God has power over lightning (Psalm 18:14).
    God has power over all nature (Job 26).

    Now you do not have to agree with. In fact no one has to agree with me, but I do believe that I am on solid Biblical grounds here when I say that God is in control of all things, including the weather. Through His providence, God provides for and protects His children, but He also ordains or permits Satan, demons, and mankind to exercise their limited will to commit acts of sin, evil, and wickedness. These same beings are fully responsible for any and all man-made disasters and tragedies they cause.
    calvin likes this.
  19. Is there a lesson to be learned here?
    Luke 13:1. There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
    Luke 13:2. And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way?
    Luke 13:3. No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
    Luke 13:4. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
    Luke 13:5. No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

    Did Jesus give the Satan (Pilate) the glory here or call for repentance to the glory of God?
    So in all these calamities, does the Lord have their attention yet?

    I ask all readers here to consider their basic mortality, something we are reminded of at the times of calamity.
    Thanks to the grace of God, through faith in Christ Jesus we will be able to exchange our mortality for immortality at the appointed time....please don't miss the bus.
  20. Amen!

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