Could a 4 hour work week work ?

[Via dolarossa]

I have just read an essay by Bertrand Russel 'In praise of idleness'
He was a mathematicianphilosopher, and concluded that if everyone just contributed to working in society, that we would all only need to work 4 hours a day. How good would that be?
Each person whois capable would be assigned a job or jobs and only work 4 hours a day.
But looking at the current state of things globally, this idea looks pretty much impossible.
Prices have gone up. Living is too expensive. People sin. They try to wiggle their way out of even a few minutes work. Some people hold erroneous beliefs about work placed upon them by the world.
Proverbs such as "The devil will find work for idle hands" has been used to shame people into doing more for less.
Corporations are vilified for their abuse/misuse of employees, which leads them to burn out and become unproductive.

Economist John Maynard Keynes predicted that the world would be working 15 hour workweeks by 2030 due to technological advances. But it seems this wont happen unless we fight for it.

Henry Ford, reduced his working week for his employees and it worked. They became more efficient.

Charles Darwin only worked 4 hours a day, and Virginia Woolf worked little and often.

So the only thing left to concede, is how will we all pay our bills...?

is there a way this ideal could even work?

 

[Lanolin]

My thing would be...not to have any bills haha

Electricity would be freely generated
Nobody would need to pay rent, everyone has their own home
Water would be free and fresh from the springs and rain
telecommunications would be free

Ok maybe it won't work, but I haven't really studied enough economics to know much more, though I do know communism/capitalist systems only work up to a point and then they collapse into a big heap. Feudalism wasn't really working out for people either

 

[rtm3039]

I have just read an essay by Bertrand Russel 'In praise of idleness'
He was a mathematicianphilosopher, and concluded that if everyone just contributed to working in society, that we would all only need to work 4 hours a day. How good would that be?
Each person whois capable would be assigned a job or jobs and only work 4 hours a day.
But looking at the current state of things globally, this idea looks pretty much impossible.
Prices have gone up. Living is too expensive. People sin. They try to wiggle their way out of even a few minutes work. Some people hold erroneous beliefs about work placed upon them by the world.
Proverbs such as "The devil will find work for idle hands" has been used to shame people into doing more for less.
Corporations are vilified for their abuse/misuse of employees, which leads them to burn out and become unproductive.

Economist John Maynard Keynes predicted that the world would be working 15 hour workweeks by 2030 due to technological advances. But it seems this wont happen unless we fight for it.

Henry Ford, reduced his working week for his employees and it worked. They became more efficient.

Charles Darwin only worked 4 hours a day, and Virginia Woolf worked little and often.

So the only thing left to concede, is how will we all pay our bills...?

is there a way this ideal could even work?

I am unsure that working only four hours a day is going to work (pun intended). Also, the idea that everything would eventually be "free" is not even close to realistic.

It appears to me that the US places too much stress on how long people work or where they do their work from. In law enforcement, many departments use what is called a "4/3 split." The workday is 10 hours (10*4=40) and you get three days off. That allows for better work/home balance. It also allows for twice as many cops on the road during high incident times (with three shifts, there is a two hour overlap).

After the COVID thing, I really thought we would embrace the idea of teleworking better. It does not appear to be the case. The work my office does does not really require going to an office. The problem is that many people are not disciplined enough to pull this off. Aside from my 8-hour day, I have to add around 2.5 hours of travel to and from the office. On the days when I do decide to work from home, those 2.5 hours are spent doing work.

The problem with this is that some of my people would (and have) taken advantage of this freedom to not do anything. Some also just do not have the home infrastructure to get their jobs done (poor internet, no copier or scanner, etc) from home.

Some of this is just poor work ethics. Cell phones are a good example. We do not get issued work cell phone and use our own. People complain about this, despite the fact that we incur no additional expense for using our phones. How silly is that?

I really do not have a good answer to this problem, but I wish someone would find one.

Rtm

 

[forgiven61]

i can speak for my job no matters the amount of hours worked. they still cant produce enough to fill the demand of sales .i cant speak for any other nation but n the united states
we cant keep enough people working , we use to use temp job services not even they can supply enough workers .

people are hired then later quit if i could figure out how to pay my bills and eat and save for a retirement such as it will be . i will quit my job

up till about 3 weeks ago i was working 4 ten hour days 8 hours on Friday and a Saturday along the way. the assembly line works 8 1/2 hours everyday. 8 hours on Saturday twice a month . we make lawn more engines we cant make enough trying to run 3 lines 1st and 2nd shift. we recently brought in worker from Mexico the work close to 12 hour days .they start mid day on 1st work all 2nd shift

no reduction in hours is not the key. people working is every place is hiring menards building supply part time 16.00 a hour advertise additional 3.00 a hour week ends .

imo the companies need take care of those of us who show up everyday and work

 

[Hopefull]

i can speak for my job no matters the amount of hours worked. they still cant produce enough to fill the demand of sales .i cant speak for any other nation but n the united states
we cant keep enough people working , we use to use temp job services not even they can supply enough workers .

people are hired then later quit if i could figure out how to pay my bills and eat and save for a retirement such as it will be . i will quit my job

up till about 3 weeks ago i was working 4 ten hour days 8 hours on Friday and a Saturday along the way. the assembly line works 8 1/2 hours everyday. 8 hours on Saturday twice a month . we make lawn more engines we cant make enough trying to run 3 lines 1st and 2nd shift. we recently brought in worker from Mexico the work close to 12 hour days .they start mid day on 1st work all 2nd shift

no reduction in hours is not the key. people working is every place is hiring menards building supply part time 16.00 a hour advertise additional 3.00 a hour week ends .

imo the companies need take care of those of us who show up everyday and work

 

[Hopefull]

Im retired from an Electrolux plant. We made transmissions for washing machines. Three 8 hr shifts worked around the clock 5 days and sometimes a half day Saturday if needed. I was always a hog for overtime so 4 hrs wouldnt cut it for me.

 

[bobinfaith]

I have just read an essay by Bertrand Russell 'In praise of idleness' He was a mathematician philosopher, and concluded that if everyone just contributed to working in society, that we would all only need to work 4 hours a day. How good would that be? Each person whois capable would be assigned a job or jobs and only work 4 hours a day.
is there a way this ideal could even work?

Hello Via;

Ideally a 4 hour day would be sweet. That would amount to 24 hours a week with Sunday off. Unless the pay is double or triple 4 hours a day, we would have to have very low or 0% debt ratio.

But this would result in non production because the day's work results could not be met. Business, sales profit or nonprofit would suffer.

I was confused at first because I was thinking of a friend who worked a 10 hr/4 day week with 3 days off. This turned out to be a productive work week all around.

In full time ministry there are no set hours a day, only as the Lord leads.

I feel the 8+ hour work day is still the proven work method.

God bless you, Via, and thank you for sharing this interesting topic.

 

[rtm3039]

Im retired from an Electrolux plant. We made transmissions for washing machines. Three 8 hr shifts worked around the clock 5 days and sometimes a half day Saturday if needed. I was always a hog for overtime so 4 hrs wouldnt cut it for me.

I've been salaried my whole like, so I have never received a $1.00 in overtime. I would say that, on average, I work from around 6am to 7pm almost daily. On Saturdays I put in maybe 5 - 6 hours. On Sunday, after coming back from Church at 1pm, I clock in maybe 3 - 4 hours. I will admit that I am well compensated for my work, but it would be the same working 40 hours or working 80 hours.

I would loke to have the same attitude by people have, which is "I get off at 3 and will not do anything after that." We are presently overwhelmed by the work we are being assigned, but none of them care and they have no issues telling me that. At this point, I am not sure who is right and who is wrong. No one in my office is older that 55 and I am 62. Maybe it is a generational thing, but I do not think so, since this has been my attitude my entire work like.

Rtm

 

[crossnote]

I have just read an essay by Bertrand Russel 'In praise of idleness'
He was a mathematicianphilosopher, and concluded that if everyone just contributed to working in society, that we would all only need to work 4 hours a day.

Instead, I'll go with God on this one...

Exodus 20:9-10 (NASB) "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

A four day week is just another secular step in erasing that history from our conscience.

 

[rtm3039]

Hello Via;

Ideally a 4 hour day would be sweet. That would amount to 24 hours a week with Sunday off. Unless the pay is double or triple 4 hours a day, we would have to have very low or 0% debt ratio.

But this would result in non production because the day's work results could not be met. Business, sales profit or nonprofit would suffer.

I was confused at first because I was thinking of a friend who worked a 10 hr/4 day week with 3 days off. This turned out to be a productive work week all around.

In full time ministry there are no set hours a day, only as the Lord leads.

I feel the 8+ hour work day is still the proven work method.

God bless you, Via, and thank you for sharing this interesting topic.

I have always found that by hour number 8, I am just getting started. I feel the most productive between hour 10 and 12.

 

[Hopefull]

I've been salaried my whole like, so I have never received a $1.00 in overtime. I would say that, on average, I work from around 6am to 7pm almost daily. On Saturdays I put in maybe 5 - 6 hours. On Sunday, after coming back from Church at 1pm, I clock in maybe 3 - 4 hours. I will admit that I am well compensated for my work, but it would be the same working 40 hours or working 80 hours.

I would loke to have the same attitude by people have, which is "I get off at 3 and will not do anything after that." We are presently overwhelmed by the work we are being assigned, but none of them care and they have no issues telling me that. At this point, I am not sure who is right and who is wrong. No one in my office is older that 55 and I am 62. Maybe it is a generational thing, but I do not think so, since this has been my attitude my entire work like.

Rtm

Yes being on salary isnt as attractive as it sounds. Overtime for an hourly employee is where he makes the money. But, much over 50 hours the government hits you pretty hard.

 

[Hopefull]

Hello Via;

Ideally a 4 hour day would be sweet. That would amount to 24 hours a week with Sunday off. Unless the pay is double or triple 4 hours a day, we would have to have very low or 0% debt ratio.

But this would result in non production because the day's work results could not be met. Business, sales profit or nonprofit would suffer.

I was confused at first because I was thinking of a friend who worked a 10 hr/4 day week with 3 days off. This turned out to be a productive work week all around.

In full time ministry there are no set hours a day, only as the Lord leads.

I feel the 8+ hour work day is still the proven work method.

God bless you, Via, and thank you for sharing this interesting topic.

4 ten hour days always sounded good to me but never worked that way. Any overtime you would get on Friday and the guys ive talked to said they do work quite a few Fridays too.

 

[rtm3039]

4 ten hour days always sounded good to me but never worked that way. Any overtime you would get on Friday and the guys ive talked to said they do work quite a few Fridays too.

I have to admit that the year COVID shut us down was enjoyable. 90% of our work was done from home and I am built for that. Even when I was appointed the Executive Director, it took another six months before I even saw any of my folks in person. I miss that. I filed by truck in March and did not need to do that again until August. Now it is two fill-ups a week.

 

[Lanolin]

hold on 4 days or 4 HOURS a week?

cos I already work 4 days. But it's 6 hours a day.

When I did do 4 hour shift work, it was ok, but you only get 10 minutes break in the middle. I did two four hour shifts for my 2nd job, but thing is, if you only get paid by the hour, it won't be enough to pay all the bills unless they paid you like at least $50 an hour.

 

[Lanolin]

The funny thing is, in some jobs that are paid by the hour, you'd just take longer to do the job so you'd get paid more!

I mean that's what happens. Stretch it out.

 

[rtm3039]

The funny thing is, in some jobs that are paid by the hour, you'd just take longer to do the job so you'd get paid more!

I mean that's what happens. Stretch it out.

See, that is part of the problem.
What I do for a living is not my job, it's what I do and I have always taken that responsibility very seriously. What I do impacts people's careers, reputation, and livelihood. The people we investigate are usually puled from their jobs and placed on some alternative work position to sit there and wait for me to complete my job. Making people wait longer than they need to is just not right. If the person actually "did it, it's not fair for the "victim" to wait. If the person did not "do it," it's not fair for them to wait.

 

[rtm3039]

Instead, I'll go with God on this one...

Exodus 20:9-10 (NASB) "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

A four day week is just another secular step in erasing that history from our conscience.

While I agree with your comments, does that actually really happen? We have created an alternate reality where very few people (in my opinion) can actually pull that off. On rare occasions am I able to get all my work done during the week, but most of the time I end up working at least a couple of hours on Saturday. Even when I do not have any work to do on Saturday, I still have home responsibilities like mowing the lawn, "fixing" things around the house, washing the cars, etc. Even on Sundays, since I am a member of my church's security team, I am technically at work at church. Most of us have painted ourselves into a corner that is hard to come out of.

 

[crossnote]

While I agree with your comments, does that actually really happen? We have created an alternate reality where very few people (in my opinion) can actually pull that off. On rare occasions am I able to get all my work done during the week, but most of the time I end up working at least a couple of hours on Saturday. Even when I do not have any work to do on Saturday, I still have home responsibilities like mowing the lawn, "fixing" things around the house, washing the cars, etc. Even on Sundays, since I am a member of my church's security team, I am technically at work at church. Most of us have painted ourselves into a corner that is hard to come out of.

For this reason the Sabbath was a protective measure as well as a prescriptive measure.

Mark 2:27 NKJV
[27] And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

 

[Lanolin]

The only full day I get off is Sunday when I don't need to do anything, all the other days I need to do work, even the days that are unpaid.
Although I used to work on Sundays.
In many jobs you still need to GET there, so, unless its at home, you need to walk, catch the bus, drive, and that costs money and energy. If you had a horse they'd still need to be saddled up and ridden to where you need to go, so they would be 'working' too.

People used to ask me what I did on the weekend, and I would say 'not working'. Thats what weekends are for, not working! By the end of the week you are so exhausted that you just need to sleep, as was the case in most jobs I did. Unless it was a job that was sooo boring, I fell asleep at work.

 

[Lanolin]

See, that is part of the problem.
What I do for a living is not my job, it's what I do and I have always taken that responsibility very seriously. What I do impacts people's careers, reputation, and livelihood. The people we investigate are usually puled from their jobs and placed on some alternative work position to sit there and wait for me to complete my job. Making people wait longer than they need to is just not right. If the person actually "did it, it's not fair for the "victim" to wait. If the person did not "do it," it's not fair for them to wait.

thats the difference between those that earn by the hour (jobs or gigs) and those that earn a salary that get paid for the whole year/per annum. It doesn't matter to the salary earners how long a job takes, but it very much matters to a wage earner.
Sometimes there are not enough hours to do a good job as the employer will not pay for extra hours. Or they won't countenance paying more for part time hours so people get stuck in full time work and get exhausted. Then they over stretch people. If you can get the work done faster, it would be good but then you might cut corners.

Anyway...slavery anyone. A slave came cheap, you just bought a slave, and then they could work for you round the clock instead of fixed hours. Don't need a home life or family. Give up everything to work for their master. Maybe the master would feed the slave crumbs, if at all.