Hi Bondman!
I'll excitedly begin with 1 John 3:9....
In the Greek,
πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ, ὅτι σπέρμα αὐτοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ μένει·
καὶ οὐ δύναται ἁμαρτάνειν, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται.
My (very) literal translation of this....
Everyone who has been born from God does not sin, because his seed is abiding in him
and he is not able to sin, because he has been born from God.
The key understanding, that doesn't come through in the english language, is the word
in red... It is in the present tense (in the infinitive mood). This means that it has an implication of process or CONTINUOUS action.
A good understanding of this is simply that a Christian is not able to continue sinning... This I've experienced (and I'm sure all other Christians have!) in the way that whenever I PURPOSEFULLY sin I feel like my soul is ripping apart at the seams and I'm in internal torture because I'm abusing the grace of my Lord. I think in extreme paraphrase... (if not taken too far) A true Christian cannot remain in that torture. When He does sin (as He will) he wants to repent (change his mind about it) and NOT CONTINUE doing it. I think this verse then applies to someone who claims to be a Christian but finds no struggle (torture! leading to repentance) in (for example) MAINTAINING sexual relations before marriage. Sin is not something a Christian should be able to maintain. However! If you are in this situation and keep pushing boundaries and seeking sin more than God, then fear the Lord and turn from it to life (Pro 16:6). You are walking into death (Pro 7:6-27). Romans 7, 8, 5:18-6:23 holds a worthwhile argument of Paul's to know well on this.
... enough sermon now...
1. In this particular situation, starting from scratch, and reading all I could find about the Spirit, it's quite possible I'd agree with you!! But at this stage of my walk with Jesus, I've come to understand that you may NEVER assume that something is CLEARLY said by God when this is NOT SO!! Decades ago I simply didn't understand this important and practical truth. But now I have to say that I still don't know of a verse that says for sure that we're filled at conversion. (Maybe you have one?) And if not for sure, then I will NOT say it's for sure!! (unless/until I may be shown otherwise). Do you agree with me on this stance that I could perhaps call "Scriptural certainty", that I've taken for many many years now?
I completely AGREE with this fabulous principle! ... I find it difficult when people develop a formulated theory on a subject in the Bible (and teach it!), which the Lord Himself has not revealed (been clear on). It is ok NOT to know everything
Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.
This isn't to say that we aren't to search and know all we can which is written about a truth, but before that remember the first half of that proverb.
In fact, dwelling on this, it is clear that in the scriptures there is definitely not any ONE way which people come to faith, as we can even see today. Some people don't have a specific POINT in which they remember, but more of a journey to realisation... People born into the church thing many may not have a specific moment in time, but like me, wanted to actually start taking seriously and KNOW Jesus well. I 'gave my life' in Kids Church and I know the gracious King honoured that, but it was only a few years ago I actually took Him 'seriously'... So in all this, I guess, this whole posting-questions-fest was more a concern and query into the speaking of faith conversions needing a second filling witnessed by tongues. In no way am I saying that if tongues was witnessed is it fake, just saying that not all have this experience - and they are Spirit filled regardless of this experience (1Cor 12:30). And in all this still saying God doesn't have a formula for conversion - even the 'sinners prayer' we made up to help us (though 1Kg 8:35 is a good justification for it) as well as 'altar' calls. Not explicitly in Scripture. Many ways the Lord works He does.
I would say that Eph 1:13 is proof that the Holy Spirit 'seals' at faith - knowing that the word translated as 'believe' is the same word which means faith and trust. It is not a head-belief. It is a faith-trust which saves.
FACT: God did NOT write the Scriptures so that a child could read and understand them. Rather we have to: a) get the Spirit to be our revelator or we understand nothing
AMEN! 2 Pt 1:20-21, 2 Pt 3:15-(16!)-17, 1Cor 8:2.
Thanks for the replies bondman, it has been quite a journey thus far
Luke.