I do agree that Jesus is the Word of God, but isn't there the logos and the rhema? They are both the word of God, one is the recorded word(logos) and the other the spoken/revealed word(rhema).
Pastor doesn't want members praying or reading bible together
- Thread starter pavilion103
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Brother I am having a very hard time trying to grasp what you are trying to say here.........
because every where where it says "Word" it means "scripture." why? because the Word of God is something we hear directly from God, and scripture is what we read withour eyes. What is the purpose of scripture if it is not the Word of God?
Brother that makes no sense what so ever.
First you say Word means scripture
Then you say word of God is something we hear directly from God
Then scriptures we read with our eyes
Then what is the purpose of scripture if it is notthe word of God
Thes 4 things conflict with each other.
Scripture is the written word of God
God says it and it gets written down and this does not change it is the written word of God.
So Curtis, Please tell me that I am missing what you mean here !!
Blessings
Jim
The word, "Word" means as "in the beginning was the Word....."
"word of God" is logov (from logos), and logos or logov, which means: 1) of speech; 1a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea.
The word, "scripture" means......
grafh (from graphe) <1124>, which means 1) a writing, thing written; 2) the Scripture, used to denote either the book itself, or its contents; 3) a certain portion or section of the Holy Scripture.
Here is a group of people who "received the Word of God" yet they examined the "scriptures" to see if it was true. It did not say they received the scriptures, and then searched the Word of God to see if it was true. You can not search the Word of God because God who is the Word can not be searched, but the scriptures can be.
Act 17:11.. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
In the Greek New Testament "Rhema" and "Logos" are used interchangeably. They are used synonymously and there is no difference between Logos and Rhema at all. Most believe that the word "logos" refers to a complete revelation spoken by God, which makes sense since Jesus Christ being the Word of God (logos) is the exact express image of God. Then the word "rhema" would be considered a part of the full revelation spoken by God. Example, one of the gifts of the Spirit is a "word" of knowledge, or Wisdom. A word is a fragmentary part of a whole sentence spoken to a person by the Holy Spirit.
I guess my English is not that good. Let me quote what I said, and maybe I can clear it up a little.
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Brother, you will not find one scripture in the bible that says that "scripture is the Word of God", neither can you find anywhere is scripture where it says, ""knowing the word", or "prophecy of the word", or "what does the word say", or "word shows", or "according to the word", or "holy word", or "understanding the word", or "read the word", or "as the word has said" , or "search the word", or "the word was opened,", or "the word cannot be broken ", or "the word written" because every where where it says "Word" it means "scripture.
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I gave several examples, like "prophecy of the word", or "search the Word" nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to do this because in all these cases it tells us to "prophecy of the scriptures", or "search the scriptures". So in all the examples I gave just change the word "word" to "scriptures" Because nowhere in the Bible does it tells us read the Word or the Word was opened to us, it says "scriptures". Only the Word of God which is God's voice speaking to us can open to us the scriptures, and they will always agree. The Word of God and scriptures are tied together, but are not the same. One reveals the other. Scripture never reveals to us the Word of God, it is the Word of God (God's voice) that reveals to us scripture. Which tells us, there in no way we will ever learn scripture unless we have a one on one, face to face relationship with God the Father.
The "Word of God" is active, and alive, and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword. It is not what was said years ago, but what God is saying to us right now. The Word of God never has a past tense associated to it as it is eternal, and is not subject to time or space.
Heb 4:12.. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
The "Law" was written in scripture form by Moses. It will "pass away" when this earth is destroyed, but the Spoken Word of God will never pass away. Even though the Word of God, and scripture are tied together they are not the same.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
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Curtis it seems there is a lot of dancing going on in this. God speaks and man writes it down. Once it is written down it is still Gods word or the word of God and no fancy talk can change this.
God has put forth His word in such a way that it takes His spirit living in us to totally begin to grasp the depth and meaning and power in His word. If there is no spirit of God living in us then at best all we can gain is head knowledge or human understanding.
This stuff about it is not the word of God because now it is called scripture is just another legalistic view of things.
God spoke His word to man and said write it down. It was written so all generations after that point would have His written word. This view you are speaking is a legalistic view to say the least.
It is Gods word to us. He gives us deeper and a much more true understanding as we draw closer to Him but that does not change it being the written word of God. God also speaks through men today which is also Gods word.
To say what is written in the bible is only scriptures and Not Gods word is very strange.
Blessings
Jim
The word is God and the word is what ever God says. Once God speaks it - it is still the word of God no matter who wrote it down.
Not sure if this is what is being meant but i agree that this happens a lot, for a lot of people.
We differentiate "word" and "Word" for a reason. One is s person, His name, and the other is what He speaks.
Euphemia this is a lost cause. This entire argument of what is and what is not the written word of God in the Bible...
Now to your Word and word - this wont hold up - He and he both used for Jesus and God. It all depends on the translation and publisher........
Any one claiming that it is no longer the written word of God but only scriptures and the only true word of God is God or the Holy Spirit speaking directly to us as we read - well is grasping at legalistic straws..........
God Bless
Shouldn't the Word receive reverence and respect no matter if it is written or spoken or a person? It all comes from the same source. The Bible is just as much a manifestation of the Holy Spirit as Jesus's birth, The works of the Father done through Jesus and every born again believer.
The entire bible is the written word of God.
There should be no dispute between "word" and "Word". That's basic stuff.
Of course. I don't know why you suggest this is in dispute by anyone.
Thank you for the clarification.
To make sure you understand, my as you call them "views" are based in about 50 years of study under some of the most respected Bible scholars to have ever opened the Bible. What some would consider a "view" is actually the teaching that may not have been considered by some people because some people have only been exposed to their denominational theories and not the open Bible which is the written Word of God.
I promise you that anything I say or expound upon is Bible based and not a personal "view".
To me, a "view" is what I look at while sitting on the back porch with a cup of coffee looking out at the mountains as the smoke rises up from them and the sun is coming up over the top of that mountain. That "view" displays the glory of God's creation and I can view His handiwork and consider How Great Thou Art!!!
It is better and easier than crying.
So you are in fact saying that the Bible "Contains" the Word of God, but it is not the Word of God!
First of all I am deeply concerned that you reject the teachings of one of humanities great Christian minds in Dr. John Gill. That alone tells me why some of your posts are troubling.
Now then, the phrase “word of God” appears often in the Bible and can have a slightly different meaning depending on context and the Hebrew or Greek word used. You and I have discussed context so I know you are familiar with it.
John 1:1 says..........
“In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.”
Here, Word is a title of the Lord Jesus. The term translated “Word” is logos, which basically means “the expression of a thought.” "Logus"can be thought of as the total message of God to man as seen in Acts 11:1; 1 Thessalonians 2:13.
Jesus embodied that total message, and that is why He is called the “Logos,” or "Word" of God Colossians 1:19; 2:9.
Logos is also used many times when referring to the written message of God (John 17:17; 1 Timothy 4:5; Revelation 1:2; Colossians 1:25).
Hebrews 4:12 says,........
“The word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”
Jesus showed a link between the written Word of God and Himself, in that He is the subject of the written Word as seen in
John 5:39............
“You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me”.
Another Greek word used for “word” is rhema. Rhema refers to the actual spoken/written words of God (Hebrews 6:5). When Jesus was being tempted by Satan, He answered in Matt. 4:4.......
“Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word [rhema] that proceeds from the mouth of God”.
We are told in Ephesians 6:17 to........
“take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word [rhema] of God.”
Jesus demonstrated we need the actual recorded words of God to overcome Satan’s attacks.
The phrase “word of God” means more than the printed words on a page. God is a communicator and has been speaking into the human realm since the beginning. He speaks through His creation, through ancient prophets, through the Holy Spirit, through Scripture, and through the Person of His Son, Jesus Christ.
WHY? Good question but I do not have a degree in human phycology.
Jim, from my experience in reality, IMO it seems to be a character flaw where admission of a fault they think makes them appear to be weak and not in control.
How many times has a husband and wife had an argument and then they make up and the husband says I love you and forgive you. Then 1 month later during another conflict......what do you think comes out of his mouth????? The same thing he said he forgave her of. Did he forgive her?? NO!
How do we know that???
Because he did not forget it!!!!
He remembered it and used it at the next chance he got!
But I am just an old country boy..........what do I know?
Mr. Clinton on trying to explain what adultery was in 1996 said............"IT all depends on what the word IS means"!!!