The teaching we get in Hebrews is this, "For if that first was faultless, place had not been sought for a second." (Hebrews 8:7). What was good enough for those under the Old Covenant, isn't good enough for those of the New. Everything we have is superior to what they had. They had shadows, we have Christ.
Worship through music
- Thread starter AndrewB93
- Start date
Psalms 149:1 does say, "in the assembly/ congregation of the faithful/saints/godly".
It may be true that there wasn't dancing in the tabernacle/temple, but there isn't a temple or tabernacle now anyway, and church now(properly speaking) is simply a group of believers coming together, not some building or house. So, this could properly be called the assembly/congregation of saints. So then, verse 3 that says to dance and play instruments to the Lord seems to be directly linked to verse 1.
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Again...what dance are we talking about? the hora? And again - the Israelites did not have the indwelt Holy Spirit and so wherever they assembled...it would be just them.....and if there is no dancing in the tabernacle/temple, where they gathered for worship....why would you interpet it to mean there is a "command" to dance? If it was interpreted as a command in those days - why did it not become a part of temple or synagogue worship? You can say a whirlwind appears to dance...that is an idiom. They danced around the golden calf.....look what happened. Define how they danced in David's time. It appears to me that this is an idiom to show joy....not waltz.
Good stuff Silk.
David danced before the Lord with all his might:
David didn't hold back anything in his own expression of worship. He didn't dance out of obligation but out of heartfelt worship. He was glad to bring the ark of the Lord into Jerusalem according to God's word and what he did was manifested out of emotions.
What does that mean then???
It means that this expression of David's heart showed that he had a genuine emotional link to God.
So then what is the problem???????
IMO there is a great error in this area and it is the error of making EMOTIONS the center of our Christian life and the error of an emotionally detached Christian life. In the Christian life, emotions must not be manipulated and ordered or suggested. If they do not come from God through a right relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ they mean nothing except a show for others to observe.
I am not saying anything against anyone but I believe everyone involved in the forum has at one time or another observed someone in a worship service that has become so overcome with emotions that that have done something that has drawn attention to them and away from Christ. They have danced around the church isle or fallen in the floor or whatever. My point is that when that happens are the people in that service looking at THAT PERSON or are they looking to CHRIST who is the author and finisher of our faith.
I am absolutely positive that some will deny what I have drawn out and that is OK with me. I do not have a dog in this hunt!!!!
All I can do is tell you what "I" have observed in my days in church and that is when the person who does those things,
the pastor could have a heart attack behind the pulpit and no one would know because everyone is looking at what is going on in the isles. EMOTIONS can be manipulated folks!!!
I still do not see where or how you see this as a command from God. Help me see it please.
Thank you sis
God BlessJim
I think that is a stretch. It is what it is and to add to it would lead to other problems with other verses. I am not siding one way or another but just commenting that the whole thing is contextual.
In the early life of Israel, dancing was one of the most expressive forms of all religious joy, whithout a doubt.
However in the New Test. we are told to be "......admonishing one another in psalms and spiritual songs singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord " in Col. 3:16.
NOWHERE are we told that dancing is to accompany that singing in the New Test.
Not so. Adding to a heart felt opinion is never better than the original since the adding could only have come from the original thought!!!
I agree!
I don't know what type if dance they did. I am simply pointing out that those verses do say that they sung, danced and played instruments while praising the Lord as an assembly/congregation. I do not know where exactly they did this(If it was in the tabernacle/temple) or even if it was a command or not, just that they did in fact do this. I pointed this out to show that when the saints gather together today we can also be considered the assembly/congregation and do the same.
I totally understand your thought. I even agree with it. However, the literal understanding of the verses posted do not include the inside of the Tabernacle which is I think what Silk was saying. At least that is what I understood and responded to.
The Tabernacle did not have a place designated for the kind of worship we are talking about. It had an "Court Yard" of approx. 75 ft. by 75 ft. but there was no specified area of worship INSIDE. There may have been dancing and praying in that area but I do not believe that was the case INSIDE which is what I was speaking about.
Study the layout in:
http://the-tabernacle-place.com/articles/what_is_the_tabernacle/tabernacle_basic_layout
Related to the topic, I think it needs to be mentioned Hosea 6:6
King James Bible
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
6. mercy—put for piety in general, of which mercy or charity is a branch.
not sacrifice—that is, "rather than sacrifice." So "not" is merely comparative (Ex 16:8; Joe 2:13; Joh 6:27; 1Ti 2:14). As God Himself instituted sacrifices, it cannot mean that He desired them not absolutely, but that even in the Old Testament, He valued moral obedience as the only end for which positive ordinances, such as sacrifices, were instituted—as of more importance than a mere external ritual obedience (1Sa 15:22; Ps 50:8, 9; 51:16; Isa 1:11, 12; Mic 6:6-8; Mt 9:13; 12:7).
knowledge of God—experimental and practical, not merely theoretical (Ho 6:3; Jer 22:16; 1Jo 2:3, 4). "Mercy" refers to the second table of the law, our duty to our fellow man; "the knowledge of God" to the first table, our duty to God, including inward spiritual worship. The second table is put first, not as superior in dignity, for it is secondary, but in the order of our understanding.
http://biblehub.com/hosea/6-6.htm
my point: with or without musical instrument: which seems me to be external ritual obedience, a more important is moral obedience....
King James Bible
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
6. mercy—put for piety in general, of which mercy or charity is a branch.
not sacrifice—that is, "rather than sacrifice." So "not" is merely comparative (Ex 16:8; Joe 2:13; Joh 6:27; 1Ti 2:14). As God Himself instituted sacrifices, it cannot mean that He desired them not absolutely, but that even in the Old Testament, He valued moral obedience as the only end for which positive ordinances, such as sacrifices, were instituted—as of more importance than a mere external ritual obedience (1Sa 15:22; Ps 50:8, 9; 51:16; Isa 1:11, 12; Mic 6:6-8; Mt 9:13; 12:7).
knowledge of God—experimental and practical, not merely theoretical (Ho 6:3; Jer 22:16; 1Jo 2:3, 4). "Mercy" refers to the second table of the law, our duty to our fellow man; "the knowledge of God" to the first table, our duty to God, including inward spiritual worship. The second table is put first, not as superior in dignity, for it is secondary, but in the order of our understanding.
http://biblehub.com/hosea/6-6.htm
my point: with or without musical instrument: which seems me to be external ritual obedience, a more important is moral obedience....
And I am saying that we are told, as believers, to reflect our love of God in all that we do - whether that is picknicking on a hill, or doing a circle cha cha to a favorite song....we are not told to make a ritual of it and bring it to the next worship service. We are to reflect this at parties where the action is different than what we do at church or wherever we meet for the specific purpose of expressing our devotion to God. I don't see a doctrine of dance in scripture....sorry.
There's an important question which has to be addressed. What's the purpose of an outward expression of worship in the assembly (or 'congregation')? The New Testament scriptures connect it with edification. I feel that's the key to knowing what God desires from us in Christian worship.
That is why I said early on that worship should be a part of everything we do. If we Love and Adore and Worship Him then it should reflect - shine or show through and come out in our every being in everything we do.
I would agree with that.
We must CONFESS our sins and we must SPEAK 0UT or ASK to be saved. These are actions required of us. Everything God has done or provided for us requires an action on our part to see them come to pass.
So ACTIONS are totally apart of everything we do in Christ so why should worship be any different ?
Seconded.