Immaculate Conception

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Major said:
Wasn't the Crusades, Inquisition, Burning heretics at the stake Catholic events?
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Major, I like you -- you're one of my good friends here, but do you know what the Crusades and Inquisition were? Burning heretics at the stake was a civil punishment condemned by the Church.

By no means am I going to pin the KKK, Westboro, or any other atrocities like that on Protestant groups. But so many people don't know what they are talking about when they mention the Crusades, the Inquisition, Galileo, etc. etc. against the Catholic Church.

Is it fair to use things against something when one doesn't know enough about them?
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Major, I like you -- you're one of my good friends here, but do you know what the Crusades and Inquisition were? Burning heretics at the stake was a civil punishment condemned by the Church.

By no means am I going to pin the KKK, Westboro, or any other atrocities like that on Protestant groups. But so many people don't know what they are talking about when they mention the Crusades, the Inquisition, Galileo, etc. etc. against the Catholic Church.

Is it fair to use things against something when one doesn't know enough about them?
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It's also important to point out that the church was a ruling body at the time of these atrocities. This is why we separate church and state now.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
It's also important to point out that the church was a ruling body at the time of these atrocities. This is why we separate church and state now.
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The Church never had authority over monarchs. In fact, the Church tried to pursued the the Spanish monarchs to rethink their approach to dealing with criminal spies during the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition was an effort to weed out residing alleged Muslim and even Jewish spies. A big reason why people think this was a Catholic effort was because the monarch used the Inquisition model that the Church uses when addressing heretics (though the Church would correct these either by suspending or if it was really bad excommunicating the heretics).
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
It's also important to point out that the church was a ruling body at the time of these atrocities. This is why we separate church and state now.
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So let me get this right.
Lysander says it was a civil matter condemned by the Church and you say that the Church was at that time the ruling body.
You can't both be right....I am wondering if you are both wrong?:confused:
 
LysanderShapiro said:
The Church never had authority over monarchs. In fact, the Church tried to pursued the the Spanish monarchs to rethink their approach to dealing with criminal spies during the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition was an effort to weed out residing alleged Muslim and even Jewish spies. A big reason why people think this was a Catholic effort was because the monarch used the Inquisition model that the Church uses when addressing heretics (though the Church would correct these either by suspending or if it was really bad excommunicating the heretics).
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Oh possibly I'm mistaken. I had thought that the church was basically the government at that time, and I'd heard that from another source too. Frankly I'm just as happy to find out I'm wrong.
 
calvin said:
So let me get this right.
Lysander says it was a civil matter condemned by the Church and you say that the Church was at that time the ruling body.
You can't both be right....I am wondering if you are both wrong?:confused:
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That's right, and fundamentalists are always right...right?
 
calvin said:
So let me get this right.
Lysander says it was a civil matter condemned by the Church and you say that the Church was at that time the ruling body.
You can't both be right....I am wondering if you are both wrong?:confused:
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Indeed. It was a civil punishment. There were some monarchs that endorsed Catholicism as its official faith, but it wasn't that Church that ruled as a government. The first Church I can think of that was synonymous with government was the Anglican Church when Henry VIII started it. Though there may have been smaller groups prior to that.
 
Hey we can't all be right. All church teachings can't be right, since we all disagree.
I wonder what the Lord thinks of us, arguing over scriptures and what not? lol
 
Patricia Dalmadge said:
Hey we can't all be right. All church teachings can't be right, since we all disagree.
I wonder what the Lord thinks of us, arguing over scriptures and what not? lol
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Indeed, we can't all be right. My hope i that we can discuss to try and find truth, not argue out of spite. I can't imagine Jesus being opposed to seeking His truth.
 
Well, I knew I hadn't imagined it, this is a line of dialogue from the movie Agnes of God:

Mother Miriam Ruth: What have we done to hurt you? And don't deny it, I can smell an ex-Catholic a mile away. What did we do? Burn a few heretics, sell some indulgences? That was in the days when the Church was a ruling body, we let Governments do those things today. So what did we do to you, hey?
 
And thats why so many crazy ideas(theologies) are made up, like the one you are talking about. Something the only try to explain whats inpossible and at the end of the day make belivers promote/elevate Mary as the Fourth person of the holy trinity and give praise and worship to her as the mother of God!? Or dont you know that it is the result of such tougths!Totally away from truth![emoji17]
MMurphy said:
Its true. But moreover we are speaking about the theological merit of the immaculate conception. Even if we may never understand the birth of christ, we can still discuss it in the hopes of learning something or expanding our wisdom.
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MMurphy said:
Its true. But moreover we are speaking about the theological merit of the immaculate conception. Even if we may never understand the birth of christ, we can still discuss it in the hopes of learning something or expanding our wisdom.
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And thats why so many crazy ideas(theologies) are made up, like the one you are talking about. Something the only try to explain whats inpossible and at the end of the day make belivers promote/elevate Mary as the Fourth person of the holy trinity and give praise and worship to her as the mother of God!? Or dont you know that it is the result of such tougths!Totally away from truth![emoji17]
 
Leo_ACH said:
And thats why so many crazy ideas(theologies) are made up, like the one you are talking about. Something the only try to explain whats inpossible and at the end of the day make belivers promote/elevate Mary as the Fourth person of the holy trinity and give praise and worship to her as the mother of God!? Or dont you know that it is the result of such tougths!Totally away from truth![emoji17]
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Indeed. There can never be a fourth member of the trinity. The trinity, while three persons, are one God, of which Mary isn't. She ought never be worshiped -- this would be a grievous insult to God.
 
Leo_ACH said:
And thats why so many crazy ideas(theologies) are made up, like the one you are talking about. Something the only try to explain whats inpossible and at the end of the day make belivers promote/elevate Mary as the Fourth person of the holy trinity and give praise and worship to her as the mother of God!? Or dont you know that it is the result of such tougths!Totally away from truth![emoji17]
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Mary is mother of God because of our Lord's nature.

We don't worship her and she isn't part of the Trinity.

And BTW if there were four in the Trinity it wouldn't be a trinity.
 
calvin said:
For me and for millions of others it would be a massive leap in faith.
The Lord our God does not change, neither does His word. When He told Eve that He would greatly increase her birth pains, that is still true today.
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But you and millions of others are still not in the majority.
 
MMurphy said:
Mary is mother of God because of our Lord's nature.

We don't worship her and she isn't part of the Trinity.

And BTW if there were four in the Trinity it wouldn't be a trinity.
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Lol...I said Trinity on purpose...lol....after that comes Assumption...lol my Jesus one abism after another!
 
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