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Yahweh/God ~ Yahshua/Jesus...Co-Creator

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Trust And Obey, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. Yahweh/God ~ Yahshua/Jesus...Co-Creator

    {1 John 5:10-12}
    10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself;
    he who does not believe God has made Him a liar,
    because he has not believed the testimony that God has given
    of His Son.
    11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life,
    and this life is in His Son.
    12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son
    of God does not have life.

    {John 1:1-3 & vs 14}
    The Eternal Word
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
    and the Word was God.
    2 He was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made through Him, and without Him
    nothing was made that was made.

    The Word Becomes Flesh
    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
    and we beheld His glory,
    the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,
    full of grace and truth.

    {Romans 11:36}
    36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things,
    to whom be glory forever. Amen.

    {Revelation 4:11}
    11 “ You are worthy, O Lord,.
    To receive glory and honor and power;
    For You created all things,
    And by Your will they exist and were created.”

    {Micah 5:2}
    The Coming Messiah
    2 “ But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
    Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
    Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel,
    Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.”

    {John 8:58}
    58 Jesus said to them,
    “Most assuredly, I say to you,
    before Abraham was, I AM.”

    {John 17:5}
    5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together
    with Yourself, with the glory which I had
    with You before the world was.

    {Colossians 1:12-18}
    12 giving thanks to the Father who has
    qualified us to be partakers of the
    inheritance of the saints in the light.
    13 He has delivered us from the power
    of darkness and conveyed us into the
    kingdom of the Son of His love,
    14 in whom we have redemption through
    His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
    15 He is the image of the invisible God,
    the firstborn over all creation.
    16 For by Him all things were created that
    are in heaven and that are on earth,
    visible and invisible, whether thrones or
    dominions or principalities or powers.
    All things were created through Him and
    for Him.
    17 And He is before all things,
    and in Him all things consist.
    18 And He is the head of the body,
    the church, who is the beginning,
    the firstborn from the dead, that in
    all things He may have the preeminence.

    {Genesis 1:26}
    26 Then God said,“Let Us make man in Our image, according to
    Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
    over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth
    and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

    {Hebrews 1:1,2}
    God’s Supreme Revelation
    1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past
    to the fathers by the prophets,
    2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has
    appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
     
  2. But all your passages, save one, were written after the fact of His becoming who He presently is. God had no son before Jesus was born.
     
  3. John 1: 1-3... ....
    The Word Became Flesh

    1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
    3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


    "And God said .' .... The divine Person here is the logos or Word of God ... Jesus , which was in the beginning with God , and was God .

    The entire Trinity , not just the Father , had a role in creation . The Son is the pwerful Word : the Holy Spirit " Breath " took an active role in the work of creation . So to say that the Son was not present is not accurate because Jesus was there from the beginning of time.


     
  4. My friend- Jesus was before all. Jesus made all. He existed before His physical manifestation and He Himself said this:

    Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (red emphasis mine)

    The Father will it the Son speaks it and the Holy Spirit empowers it. All were present at the beginning.
    Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
     
  5. Lets see if I have this right from you: Jesus had a mother in Heaven before Mary birthed Him as a human. I am sorry, but that doesn't compute.
     
  6. Well, I have to ask the same of you, my friend. If Jesus was a son before being birthed by Mary, who was His mother?
     
  7. He had no mother because He was God. (red emphasis mone)
    Jesus is the Word of God:
    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    The Father calls Jesus God:
    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    Mary was only the mother of His physical body. He was God before all and created everything that is:
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
     
  8. The deity of Christ part 1
    Scripture teaches repeatedly that there is none like our God yet Christ is like Him in every way:

    Exo 8:10 And he said, To morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto the LORD our God.



    Jesus is God and came in human form.

    Jesus though God walked as a man as the perfect example for us. He (though God) did only what He saw the Father doing and then that only in the power of the Holy Spirit. That was not a sign of lack or inability but was simply what He came to do.

    Did Jesus deny the words of Thomas as He called Him God?
    Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
    Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


    In the Book of Matthew The Words the Holy Spirit spoke through Isaiah tell us
    Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    It is clear in the following verse that Word is not just an expression or thought but the Word was God.
    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    and that God was Jesus Christ:
    Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


    The Son is the again referenced as God in Isaiah:

    Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Scripture teaches that :
    Exo 8:10 And he said, To morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto the LORD our God.

    Yet Jesus:
    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    and again:
    Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Red emphasis mine)
    Here we have the Father calling the Son Ho' Theos or Most High God.

    The very fact that in the scriptures Thomas called Christ God, Isaiah called Christ both God and Everlasting Father and John and in John 1 the very Father God Himself calls Christ "the Most High God" plainly demonstrate the deity of Christ. Emmanuel- God with us come in the flesh and walking as a man.
    To deny the deity of Christ one would have to remove a lot of scripture from the Word of God. To say that He was God and also a flesh and blood servant of God would not.

    This is a common thread throughout the whole bible-


    Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
    There is none like God:


    Exo 8:10 And he said, To morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto the LORD our God.

    Deu 33:26 There is none like unto the God of Jeshurun, who rideth upon the heaven in thy help, and in his excellency on the sky.

    1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

    2Sa 7:22 Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

    1Ch 17:20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.



    Yet Christ is like God (and is God) in every way:


    Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

    Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
    Luk 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

    Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
    Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

    Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

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    Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him

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    Psa 24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

    1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

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    Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

    Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
    Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death

    Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

    Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
    Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

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    Psa 71:5 For thou art my hope, O Lord GOD: thou art my trust from my youth.

    1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

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    Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

    Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;


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    Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

    Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


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    1Sa 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

    Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

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    Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

    Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


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    2Sa 22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

    Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
    Luk 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

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    Psa 97:9 For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

    Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

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    Psa 62:12 Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.

    Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


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    Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
    Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

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    Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

    Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

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    Eze 34:15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
    Eze 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

    Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

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    Eze 43:2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

    Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.








     
  9. The Deity of Christ part2

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


    Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:



    There is none like God-
    Exo 8:10 And he said, To morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto the LORD our God.
    Yet Christ is like God (and is God) in every way:

    1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

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    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

    Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Luk 19:31 And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.
    Luk 19:32 And they that were sent went their way, and found even as he had said unto them.
    Luk 19:33 And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
    Luk 19:34 And they said, The Lord hath need of him.

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    Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


    Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

    Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
    Luk 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

    Mar 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,


    Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

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    Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

    Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


    Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

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    Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


    Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

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    Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

    Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

    Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

    Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
    Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


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    Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

    1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


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    2Sa 22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

    Tit 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
    Tit 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

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    Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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    Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

    2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

    Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

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    Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
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    Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

    Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

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    Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.


    Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

     
  10. Ah, You mean He was the Word in flesh. I see and agree however, Jesus had a beginning for that to be possible that the word can now be called the Son. That isn't something the Word was ever called before the earthly life of Jesus became an actuality..

    You must keep in mind that except for OT prophecies, all references to Jesus being God by the writers were written of Him AFTER at least the Transfiguration; AFTER He had accomplished the Father's purpose of demonstrating the "way " of the cross. All other writing of Him was AFTER His ascension; AFTER the fact of Him becoming the Author and finisher of our salvation.
     
  11. The transfiguration simply revealed who He already was.:)
    His body had a beginning but He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
    Many of those scriptures I gave you were Old Testament prophesies of Christ. He was alive and active in the Old Covenant.
     
  12.  
  13. Since Jesus was and is the creator of all that exists it would be quite impossible for Him to have a beginning.:) What He did have was a physical manifestation of divinity in human form.
    Being the "Protokos" or the "first brought forth" is in reference to His resurrection from the dead.

    Did not Isaiah properly describe Him as "Immanuel" or "God with us"?
    Did not Isaiah declare Him to be " The mighty God, The everlasting Father,"?

    Christ my friend is God from the first page of Genesis to the end of the Revelation of John.
     
  14.  
  15. My opinion- only Jesus body was human as He was Immanuel. Isaiah called Him God 6,00 years before He came to earth and I choose to let the Word of God speak for itself. Jesus came as a man to walk as a man and fulfill the Law which He did. This was His earthly ministry to fulfill the Law and pay the price for our sin, That has little to do with who He was before the incarnation .
    Other than that I respect your right to your opinion and we will simply have to agree to disagree.
    Many blessings ,
    brother Larry.
     
  16. I certainly do as well. I asked when He was called those titles while in His earthly ministry. You have not said. I will answer. He was never called those titles until after His ascension and the revelation truth of Him came through to the writers of the gospels. Think about it. At no time did anyone declare Jesus to be God. He alluded to it several times however, that can only viewed from the assurances of the reality of His relationship to the Father. Actually becoming God is for a later when all things both in Heaven and Earth will be summed up in Him.

    Jesus came as a man to walk as a man and fulfill the Law which He did.

    You mean the Word came as a man, don't you?

    This was His earthly ministry to fulfill the Law and pay the price for our sin, That has little to do with who He was before the incarnation .

    Indeed, that was the earthly ministry of Jesus. Having done so He and the Word of God are now eternally sealed as being a Divine Human. Jesus earned that position . . . by the things He suffered.

    Indeed and I do so much appreciate you disposition. I would however, wish you would address this one question: Given that I have stated Jesus would come again as God, how could Jesus be God in His earthly ministry and the Son of God, all at the same time? Also, why is He coming again as, Son of Man?
    These are good questions, the makings for a very good Bible study, don't you think? . . . :)


    In Jesus,
    Bro. Ken
     
  17. No body said Jesus had a mother in heaven . I don't understand where you are getting this from . ?

    I said the Trinity , Father Son and Holy Spirit were there from the beginning of creation and verified it from Genesis.
     
  18. Explain to me where you see in this passage that I said anything about Jesus having a mother in heaven . Father Son and Holy Spirit are all part of creation from the beginning of time right from the first Book of Genesis.The entire Trinity took an active role in the work of creation.

    Many times in Genesis you will find God saying " Let Us " spoken by God the Father to the Son and the Holy Ghost .who were each concerned in the creation of things , and particularly of man . Yhis expression " Us " contains an early implication of the triune God .

    See Matthew 3: 17 And a voice from heaven siad " This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.

    Gen 1: 27 ......In our image , in our likenes , and let them - mazn and woman were both created in the image and likeness of God .

    In the NT , Jesus came down from heaven , born as a man ( well baby ) and took on human form.
     
  19. You mean the Father, Word and Holy Spirit? Isn't that a better understanding?

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7 (KJV)

    Again, words mean something. Where is the Son mentioned?
     
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