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When People Fail

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Hashe, May 5, 2014.

  1. There's a difference between a habitual sin and what Abraham did. He lied to try to protect himself, which still wasn't the right thing to do, but it wasn't like he lied about him being Sarah's husband in ever place they ever went.

    I am never very hard on people that make a mistake. Firstly, I feel it isn't my place to judge people for their failures. As long as I wasn't harmed in the process it doesn't really effect me. Secondly, I am not perfect either. I don't see any point in judging others for their failures when I wouldn't want someone judging me for mine.
  2. Actually, it was habitual sin in Abraham's life, Gen 23:13 tells us he had made this agreement with Sarah almost 30 years earlier when he left Ur. While we don't condone sin I'm wondering if the people in the article gave the man the chance to repent? We can look at the life of David, God didn't fire him when he sinned, but rather He rebuked him, David repented, there was a consequence for his sin, but he continued in his ministry, ...I'm wondering what is going to happen to this brother when he does repent, if he hasn't already, where is his Christian family?

    Jesus taught how to handle sin in the Church in Matt 18:15-20 and Paul gave us an example of it in the Corinthian Church, to me these people have committed the sin Paul warned the Corinthians to not do. 2 Cor 2:7, 8


  3. Maybe we have a different definition of the word. Twice isn't a habit, in my opinion.
  4. I apologize, I typed the wrong scripture reference, here is the verse I was referring to,

    And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother. Gen 20:13

    It's only recorded for us two times after he believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness, as we can see it was 30 years earlier that they had made the agreement, so every place refers to all of the towns or places they stopped along the way to Haran, then lived in Haran for years until his father died and then his descent to the Promised Land that men were hitting on Sarah, ...remember, they probably were only able to travel about 10 miles a day and the journey from Ur to Haran was over 600 miles so there were lots of oppertunities, add to that Abraham himself said he didn't have a plan as to where he was going Heb 11:8, he stated he wandered, ...God spoke to him to leave Ur and his family Gen 12:1 but he disobeyed and took his father and Lot with him. In that society the father was the head of the house, the authority figure, so God waited 'til Terah died before the prompting in Abraham's heart caused him to leave Haran looking for the land God was going to give him, so that He would become the authority figure in Abraham's life, ...as He had planned from the beginning and as the story of Abraham's life of faith reveals to us a role model for us today and Paul reiterates this in Rom 4:12, 16-17, Gal 3:7-9.

    What do we learn from God's dealing with Abraham?

    At the beginning he was a coward and a wimp, not much of a husband to place his wife in danger of being raped for almost 30 years and yet we see how Father loves Him and blessed him, ...from his loins came our blessed Savior, Jesus Christ, ...from this we can all be encouraged, we have all failed in one way or another just like Abraham, yet Father loves us in spite of who we are or what we have done, ...He was gracious, merciful, patient, long suffering, faithful towards Abraham and so He will be towards us, that makes me very happy because I know what a wretch I am and Father still loves me unconditionally!



  5. Again, I don't see that as habitual lying. It's different to lie because you are a liar and lie because you're afraid of being murdered. It's still wrong but it isn't the same thing.
  6. #7 JustPassingThru, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014

    Thirty years of playing the "she's my sister'" game is NOT habitual?

    And of course you can supply verses that say one type of lie is different from another and doesn't carry the same punishment?

    Lying is lying in the eyes of God, at Jesus' trial that had witnesses that said, "He said, destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days," their inference was the Temple that was still in construction, but John tells us He was talking about His body, ...now, telling a half truth, as they were, is a whole lie, lying is lying whether it's to protect yourself or for any other reason.

    But let your word be, Yes, yes; No, no. For whatever is more than these comes from evil. Mat 5:37

    "It's different to lie because you are a liar and lie because you're afraid of being murdered."

    That's New Age doctrine, the end justifies the means, ...bro, there's no place for that heresy in the life of a believer.

    Euphemia likes this.
  7. Lying is lying and its wrong. I agree with you there. But, I don't think habitual liar fits. And Sarah was his sister. Not that that is an excuse, but Abraham wasn't a habitual liar.
  8. I'm sorry I don't understand why you can't see what was written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

    And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother. Ge 2o:13

    What is Abraham saying, it says at every place they stopped and pitched their tent in their thirty years of wandering they were both prepared to tell a lie, as I already explained, it's a half truth and a half truth is a whole lie.

    Now, just for the sake to prove a point, I tell my wife I'm going to run some errands in town and it will take all morning,, but I finish in just one hour and then off to the motel room and fall into the arms of my waiting lover, when I come home my wife asks me how my morning went and did I finish all my errands and my reply is, "yes," that's only half the truth and omitting all of the truth isn't truth, so if it isn't truth then its false and because it came out of my mouth I'm lying.

    What does our system of jurisprudence ask of us?

    Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so if man, being evil can, demand that of us, ...how much more a thrice Holy God?

  9. Lying, is lying, is lying, is lying.

    Abraham could have done much better.

    When dragging me through the court system, facing 90 years in prison, I never lied one time. I also however refused to say a word, despite the number of times they dragged me into question me. I just said I am not answering any questions, though they hounded, like girlymon's.

    We never lie, ever.
  10. Gene, I didn't say lying was wrong and I didn't say Abraham didn't lie about that. I just said I don't think he was a habitual liar.

    Michael, there's a difference between being a criminal accused of a crime he's guilty of and not lying and lying so you won't be killed in your sleep. Granted, it's still a lie.
  11. We all fail at some point, even many points. We are to forgive others as God has forgiven us through his son Jesus Christ.
  12. I can't be killed in my sleep. It would be impossible.

    Pro 3:24 When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.

  13. It's funny that you actually believe that. Plenty of Christians have been killed by someone who's broken into their house.
  14. You said something about wanting to be a Pastor and your mocking the Word of God?

    He said we can lay down and not be afraid because he will never fail us, forsake us or leave us. NEVER.

    Paul said God is faithful to deliver us from Wicked and even Men............ Faithful

    and you mock Gods word............. And are full of unbelief.

    Your right, your not safe, I do agree with that. Jesus said it was only possible to them that believe.

    Disgraceful............ Just even sad, tormenting to me even that people that name the name of Jesus value so little what the one that can make planets said.

    I wish I had not posted here. Faithless generation..............

  15. I'm not mocking the Bible. I'm saying that plenty of Christians get killed by murders in the night. I agree we shouldn't worry worry because we are safe regardless of what happens, but not physically.

    And yes, I would love to be a pastor. :)
  16. I have calmed a bit...........

    And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
    (2Th 3:2-3)

    Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
    (2Ti 4:17-18)

    Out of all the people on earth, Paul was in constant danger, every moment and had gone through a whole lot of things. If anyone believed it was not physical protection, then it would have had to be Paul, because of all Paul went through.

    Instead, Paul said the Lord is faithful to deliver us from wicked men. Now if we are delivered from wicked men, they can't Kill us.........

    Not only that, but Paul said the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work.............. Now if we are delivered from every evil work, that is physical, Because the killing us part is evil.

    Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    Nothing, means nothing!!! Not just some spiritual hurt which is stupid thinking because once your dead, your spirit can't be injured, and there is nothing in Heaven to get hurt on.................... We don't need Spiritual protection in Heaven!!!!!

    If your in Hell, then it won't matter either.

    Jesus said if we drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt us................ Is that some type of spiritual drink we can't see? Did He mean that??

    spiritual protection....... right................ Spirits can't even be harmed................... Wow.

    OH, spiritual protection to get to heaven...................... Just in case those mean men who are physical Paul said God is faithful to deliver us from try to steal our spirits................ Has to be it....... Spirit nabbers......... ya, real problem I hear in some parts.......... Suck the spirit right out ya............... Can't be to careful.

  17. But Paul was tortured and beheaded...
  18. What scripture is that?

    If your going to be a Pastor, you need to get in the habit of looking at just scripture, not fables or history. If you want to be a History teacher, then do so. I teach the Word, have Pastored a church and the Lord did not one time tell me to give some History lesson devised by men. Scripture only.

    Also as a Pastor you need to get in the Habit of taking the Word as a whole, and not just a few scriptures.

    Just to remind you............. What did Paul say?

    2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
    2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

    Was Paul killed before completing the plan of God?

    Did Paul have to offer himself and had a choice, or did they just take without a choice?

    Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

    Why would someone choose not to be delivered?

    If you still don't get it, then not much else I can do. I just hope you don't become a weak and powerless Pastor, full of doubt. We have enough of those that run around telling us how mysterious God is, when they ought to know God to become a Pastor. We don't need one more to the pile.
  19. It's in history.

    Okay, so to be a successful pastor we must ignore history and science. If anything is outside the Bible is it false and designed to make us fall. I think I got it now. Thanks for the help!

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