When People Fail

Huntingteckel said:
It's in history.

Okay, so to be a successful pastor we must ignore history and science. If anything is outside the Bible is it false and designed to make us fall. I think I got it now. Thanks for the help!
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You bypassed my questions..................

There is no accurate historical account of how Paul died, when or even where. No accurate record was kept, or if Nero was even involved or not.

I never said everything outside the bible could be false. Jesus said we are to preach the gospel. He never said anything about history lessons that can't be proven.

As a Pastor, if you tell someone something, you best make sure it's 100% truth and correct. Sticking with scripture only at least ensures your trying, even if your understanding is off on some things.
 
MichaelH said:
You bypassed my questions..................

There is no accurate historical account of how Paul died, when or even where. No accurate record was kept, or if Nero was even involved or not.

I never said everything outside the bible could be false. Jesus said we are to preach the gospel. He never said anything about history lessons that can't be proven.

As a Pastor, if you tell someone something, you best make sure it's 100% truth and correct. Sticking with scripture only at least ensures your trying, even if your understanding is off on some things.
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Alright, then what about James?

Acts 12:1-2 HCSB

About that time King Herod cruelly attacked some who belonged to the church, and he killed James, John’s brother, with the sword.
 
Huntingteckel said:
Nothing to say? Didn't think so.
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I already gave you scripture. Even the one where you can refuse to be delivered for a better resurrection. We take all the scripture into account. You don't grasp that concept yet, nor did you rember back far enough about Paul instructing to pray for others protection, as not everyone one has faith. Your a waste of my time.
 
MichaelH said:
I already gave you scripture. Even the one where you can refuse to be delivered for a better resurrection. We take all the scripture into account. You don't grasp that concept yet, nor did you rember back far enough about Paul instructing to pray for others protection, as not everyone one has faith. Your a waste of my time.
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*You're

So, James had a lack of faith? That's why he was murdered. That's interesting.
 
Huntingteckel said:
*You're

So, James had a lack of faith? That's why he was murdered. That's interesting.
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NO, your saying Faith don't matter, I have scripture to prove otherwise.

Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
(Heb 11:33-35)

did you read the part AGAIN........ sigh...................... about not accepting deliverance? I hope it sinks in this time.

Also, who knows what James believed and why did you even bring it up? Just because your a believer, does not mean your not full of unbelief, I mean look at yourself, a good example of this.

James, the son of Zebedee (Johns Brother) was killed by Herod............... Secular Records show (not that I care anything about secular records) Around 44 ad.

There is little information on James, but that he was an apostle and the brother of John. I don't know what he believed, Scripture does not tell us what he believed. Don't know if He was going after that better resurrection, just don't know.

If any of the writers were killed early without finishing their race, then I would say you have a point. They all died of old age, each one finished everything God called them to do.

We don't know much about the other Apostle James, Son of Alphaeous. He is only mentioned a couple of times.

The most prominent James who Jude addressed as brother and Servant of God and the Lord Jesus Christ, which the Writer James also gave himself the same title, it is not known what happened to him. Most believe this was the Lord's brother, and not part of the other 2 originals.

If your going to be a Pastor, start taking heed to the scriptures. If Jesus told us nothing by any means shall hurt you, then you better believe that despite the 100 that did not make it.
 
MichaelH said:
NO, your saying Faith don't matter, I have scripture to prove otherwise.

Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
(Heb 11:33-35)

did you read the part AGAIN........ sigh...................... about not accepting deliverance? I hope it sinks in this time.

Also, who knows what James believed and why did you even bring it up? Just because your a believer, does not mean your not full of unbelief, I mean look at yourself, a good example of this.

James, the son of Zebedee (Johns Brother) was killed by Herod............... Secular Records show (not that I care anything about secular records) Around 44 ad.

There is little information on James, but that he was an apostle and the brother of John. I don't know what he believed, Scripture does not tell us what he believed. Don't know if He was going after that better resurrection, just don't know.

If any of the writers were killed early without finishing their race, then I would say you have a point. They all died of old age, each one finished everything God called them to do.

We don't know much about the other Apostle James, Son of Alphaeous. He is only mentioned a couple of times.

The most prominent James who Jude addressed as brother and Servant of God and the Lord Jesus Christ, which the Writer James also gave himself the same title, it is not known what happened to him. Most believe this was the Lord's brother, and not part of the other 2 originals.

If your going to be a Pastor, start taking heed to the scriptures. If Jesus told us nothing by any means shall hurt you, then you better believe that despite the 100 that did not make it.
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Plenty of Christians full of faith have been killed. Just the slaughtering of the early Christians proves that. And those people had way more faith then most of us have. They had to stay faithful in the face of death. You can't question someone's faith because bad things happen to them.
 
Huntingteckel said:
Plenty of Christians full of faith have been killed. Just the slaughtering of the early Christians proves that. And those people had way more faith then most of us have. They had to stay faithful in the face of death. You can't question someone's faith because bad things happen to them.
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Here is me coming in at the end of this thread and I really just wanted to talk to some of the last few posts anyway. I am jumping in because I feel we are not asking the right questions and just getting exasperated with each other.

I think we are confusing "devotion to God" with "trusting God". You can be devoted to God but still not have full confidence that He is not going to bring us into victory in every situation.

I agree that we should not sit in judgement with those who fail. I agree we should encourage one another in the Lord.

I believe that we should trust God in all our affairs of life and not just in our death ( for the ressurection.)

To me faith in God is simply confidence in God. You dont need to be a theologian to know whether someone is exhibiting confidence, in a given area of life, or not. The answer is not to condemn them for their lack of confidence but to encourage them to have more confidence in God.

If some believe that God wants them to lack confidence in a certain area and they are committed to that position then I leave them alone. To me thats not a reason for a debate. All we can do is pray for them.

Anyway, I am not sure whether this fits into the original topic and I considered starting my own thread on this but in the end I thought I might make my point more easily here.
 
Hashe said:
What do you think? How should we treat others who fail?

Why did God treat Abraham the way that he did? What does that say about how we should treat others who fail?

http://ontoxenos.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/abraham-and-habitual-sin/
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Any time you sin, you fail. Being a sinner only requires you to sin one time. How many times did adam and Eve have to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil before they became a sinner? Even being a Christian we fail and sin, not because we want to, but because we are still growing in the Lord and the power of his might. Thank God for his mercy and grace he extends to us when we do fail. Confessing our sins I call doing my laundry, which I really hate but it is need full to keep my conscience clear.
There were many old testament saints who lied, and murdered and yet God still used them for his Glory, because he did not deal with them according to their failures, but according to there faith.
 
Hashe said:
What do you think? How should we treat others who fail?

Why did God treat Abraham the way that he did? What does that say about how we should treat others who fail?

http://ontoxenos.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/abraham-and-habitual-sin/
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People who claim to be Christian and suffer in an area of sin repetitiously are dealing with a spiritual stronghold and need all the love and concern they can get from the Body of Christ. That doesn't mean giving a pat on the head, and sending them on their way. It means for those who are wise and called to do so, to actually take the person aside---many times---and show them scripture, and pray for and with them, bringing them to accountability, and leading them into deliverance.
 
Euphemia so was this is the case with Abraham? Did he sin repetitiously? He said, everywhere we go, say you're my sister!
 
Hashe said:
Euphemia so was this is the case with Abraham? Did he sin repetitiously? He said, everywhere we go, say you're my sister!
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If he lived it and never recanted, then it was a perpetual lie, for which the Lord made sure he was found out and rebuked.
 
Euphemia said:
People who claim to be Christian and suffer in an area of sin repetitiously are dealing with a spiritual stronghold and need all the love and concern they can get from the Body of Christ. That doesn't mean giving a pat on the head, and sending them on their way. It means for those who are wise and called to do so, to actually take the person aside---many times---and show them scripture, and pray for and with them, bringing them to accountability, and leading them into deliverance.
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Often the issue on "sin" is that religion has drawn from the legalism of the law, in that the flesh must be justified through certain works and through the keeping of certain rules that relate to the flesh. The "liberty" from the flesh comes as one understands the liberty we have in Christ. The New Testament does not promote legalism but liberty, and the "sins" of the New Testament come down to very simple concepts, such as love...and faith...when we "sin" its always a sin against love or faith. Here is the witness of the Holy Spirit about what rules in regards to "holiness" and how the Holy Spirit sees the importance of "liberty"

Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The intention of the New Covenant and the Holy Spirit is to set us free from legalism and "touch not, taste not, handle not" And to deal with real sin, not all this religious bondage that comes from legalism.
 
MichaelH said:
I can't be killed in my sleep. It would be impossible.

Pro 3:24 When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.
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That Proverb doesn't guarantee you won't be killed in your sleep. It says you shouldn't be afraid.
 
HisManySongs said:
That Proverb doesn't guarantee you won't be killed in your sleep. It says you shouldn't be afraid.
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It doesn't!? I think if I was murdered in my sleep I wouldn't call it a sweet sleep. (I suppose one might argue that after he was dead but not during the murdering.)
 
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