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Victoria Osteen: When You Worship Him, You’re Not Doing It For God Really. You’re Doing It For Yours

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by LysanderShapiro, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. Victoria Osteen's recent statement at Lakewood (her husband's church) has circulated the internet with a lot of commentary.

    She said

    “I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we’re not doing it for God—I mean, that’s one way to look at it—we’re doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we’re happy. That’s the thing that gives Him the greatest joy. So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you’re not doing it for God really. You’re doing it for yourself, because that’s what makes God happy. Amen?”

    Shall we discuss?
  2. #2 KingJ, Sep 1, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
    Does she not know commandment ONE is to place / love / acknowledge in all our ways God first? Her whole paragraph is pushing the second commandment above the first and I am not sure she properly grasps the second commandment.

    When she says ''obey God', I wonder what commandments she is referring to. Those that make us happy? What are those? Sure, giving to the poor makes us feel happy. When others see us tithe or we help others, we feel special. But that is one of many commandments. If we just had to focus on the ten commandments we see that disobeying them helps / pleases us as long as there is no one to catch us. Stealing = richer. Murder = annoying persons removed from our lives. Adultery = greater self pleasure. Obeying them is at a cost to ourselves.

    Her phrase ''Just do good for your own self'' :giggle::giggle::ROFLMAO: leaves the door wide open for disobedience.

    Conclusion: Her statement is dumb. Took me a while to write a non sarcastic reply. Death to self is Christianity 101.

    Mark 8:34-35 If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it."

    I think if she clarified His commandments as turning the left cheek / death to self = makes us happy, so do it....I would agree with her as we are new creations in Christ / must walk in the spirit. But I do not see that with her phrase I quoted above. I can only read her as implying obeying commandments = we must be happy and make others happy = God is happy = unscriptural Matt 10:22.

  3. Yea, I worship because I love God, and obey God for God! LOL
    JG27_chili likes this.
  4. :eek::D:LOL: I worship God cuz HE is WORTHY> I don't do it for me, however, the gifts I receive by doing so ..my hart is humbled, I smile hehehe, stress is gone, and the love starts flowing fast.
    If I worshiped myself I might as well be named Kim Jong UN:speechless:
    I watched their sermons 2-3 x and never watched again(n)
    KingJ and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  5. And everyone said "Aaaammeee.... What????"

    I will wait and watch if someone comes in support of what Victoria Osteen proclaimed.. Then, we can have a good discussion! I think she is going to lose so many Church members. Not because they are going to realize the false teachings. Because the priority is on keeping us happy. They will find other ways to do that. The only statement which makes sense for me is,

    God takes pleasure when we’re happy.

    I have to take the words completely out of context to make any sense!!
  6. A few of my old friends posted about this on Facebook recently defending her statement. One old friend decided she wanted defend Osteen, and her defense was this:

    "Why so much hate for Victoria Osteen? God doesn't need our worship! He's God! We come to God because it does make us happy and God loves us and wants us to be happy as any parent would want to see their children happy. God doesn't change, so why would he need us to worship him? We do it because we get joy from it!"

    If Osteen's statement was that our worship doesn't benefit God, but that we do it because no one else is worthy of it, I'd agree. If she said God demands we worship Him for our own souls, not His, I'd agree with that. But her statement was that we do it because it makes us happy.

    Most of us live very comfy, cushy, pampered lives...some more than others, but especially when looking at the lives of the martyrs and those who are currently under severe persecution in the Middle East, it's easy to smile. For them, not so much. As Christians we gain clarity, wisdom, fulfillment, peace, and truth. But it doesn't follow that it will make us on some sort of high oblivious to the ills of the world. And one thing is for sure, considering it also means to hold love, morality, and integrity at such a high standard (far higher than even the most devout can often practice), it is not easy being a Christian. It's worth it a million times over, but certainly not easy.

    A famous quote from C.S. Lewis (I think from Mere Christianity) goes like this:

    “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”

    If the defenses for Osteen is that God doesn't need us but we need Him, then I 100% agree with that...but that is not what Osteen said.
    KingJ likes this.
  7. So many issues with her statement, it's hard to know where to start.
    First off, Joel has never claimed to be a scholar, biblical or otherwise (and it shows).

    When we obey, we should be doing it because we understand that God is the final authority. We obey because it is right and just to obey, and a great sin to intentionally disobey.

    As to "happy". If you take the time to read the lives of the saints, it will become very clear that God could not care less about whether you are "happy".
    "Happy" is meaningless. Virtuous is what He is going for.
    SparkleEyes and LysanderShapiro say Amen and like this.
  8. Now we have something to discussion! My Pastor gave me one great tip! The best way to identify if a teaching is true or false.. The message should be preachable in US, India, Africa or the poorest country in the world. The message cannot change based on circumstance. I don't know if Victoria Osteen could proclaim this in many places!

    She could have framed this in many different ways. I hope this was just a bad way of conveying a thought. If she really meant this, then I will pray that Lord will open her heart to understand what worship is. And more importantly help her understand who He is. Only when we realize who He is, we will truly worship Him. When we don't know who He is, we will start thinking why does He need worship!
    KingJ and LysanderShapiro say Amen and like this.
  9. This reminds me of another quote -- this one coming from St. Ignatius Loyola:

    "If God sends you many sufferings, it is a sign that He has great plans for you and certainly wants to make you a saint."
    Ravindran likes this.
  10. A lot of valid point.. He's God.. God loves us and wants us to be happy.. God doesn't change.. But does not tie well with rest of the comments! Worship is God-centered. The focus is not on us, rather Him.. Creator rather than creation... We are clay in a potter's hand.. Clay itself has no ability rather than to resist the wonderful work of Potter.. One clear instructions in Bible is to worship God in spirit and truth.. That is not possible with a mindset of getting joy out of it.. The focus is not getting.. The focus should be on God who is worthy to be praised..
    gonefishing and LysanderShapiro say Amen and like this.
  11. I do not think that they will lose one single person my brother. Those that are there sold out a long time ago. She and he can say just about anything and it will be accepted by those who have turned from the truth of God's Word. That is my opinion!
  12. I agree.. That was just a sarcastic comment :D If at all they lose people, it will not be because of the false teaching..
    Major likes this.
  13. From CS Lewis......
    "But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world."
    KingJ, LysanderShapiro and Ravindran says Amen and like this.
  14. Agreed. Once the truth has been rejected......everything else comes real easy to believe doesn't it.
  15. I look at it this way.. When we are in our pleasures, we hardly yield to listen to God.. Even when God is completely audible.. We push God to the extreme.. So He allows us to become weak, not able to stand on our own legs and desperate.. Then we listen.. As my pastor says, Lord ministers to souls in great ways in hospital beds :) where we are constrained and bent to listen
    God is Love, JG27_chili and Major says Amen and like this.
  16. Indeed. By no means was I defending my friend's comment. I strongly disagree with her. I think she has it entirely wrong, as does Osteen.
    Ravindran likes this.
  17. Amen! We were created by God to worship, serve and have fellowship with God. Anything less than that is a cult.
    JG27_chili and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  18. 2"For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

    God has always used our weakness for His good!
    God is Love and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  19. I know :) Was just replying to your friend :)
  20. These latest statements made by Vic are just what their itching eats want to hear. They applauded. That says enough for me.

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