To keep or not to keep, that is the question?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Complete, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. Hello there,

    In a recent thread a member brought up the subjects of 'Sabbath keeping', and 'the Lord's supper'. I do not believe that it is incumbent upon believers to keep either commandment; but recognise that for many the keeping of both is very important.

    I stand personally on the content of Colossians chapter two, and the fact that both the act of Sabbath keeping, and the feast of Passover apply to God's chosen people, Israel.

    In Christ Jesus
  2. What do you do with "do this in remembrance of me..." which Paul repeated in 1 Cor 11? Real Christians are free from these issues. Free to keep or free not to keep.
    Euphemia likes this.
  3. Thank you, @Abdicate,

    This ordinance was instituted in Matthew 26:26-30, as you will know, and it is connected with the Jewish feast of Passover. In 1 Corinthians 11:23-26, we can see that this feast was no longer simply to remind them of their deliverance from Egypt, but to 'show the Lord's death till He come', and in 1 Corinthians 11, they are further told, 'For even Christ our Passover hath been sacrificed for us'. The wine typifying the 'blood of the new covenant'. The new covenant, like the old covenant will be made with God's chosen people, Israel. (Jeremiah 31).

    When Israel as a nation failed to come to repentance at the end of the Acts period, the Kingdom, the new covenant and all that is associated with it became in abeyance, and the revelation of a new administration was given to the Apostle Paul, as the steward of a new dispensation.

    The day will come when Israel will once more be, 'My People', and the Kingdom prophetic clock will begin ticking again, but until that time, we who live in this dispensation must live in the light of the revelation given for us, and revealed in Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1,2 Timothy and Titus, written from prison by Paul, as God's Steward of these precious truths.

    In Christ Jesus
  4. I will preface this by saying I am no expert on these matters, so feel free to tear the following ideas apart :)

    First, the church in Corinth was making a mockery of the Lord's supper (divisions, people going hungry or getting drunk). Paul is not commanding them to take the supper but rather giving instructions for when they take the supper.

    From what I can tell there are no special instructions for the Lord's supper (how often, with who, etc.) rather we have just modeled it after Jesus and His disciples (and we should). I don't see this as a command as the other more obvious commands (love God, love one another, no hate/lust, etc.) but rather perhaps a gift (this is where you can tear me a part) for us: a method to come together as the Church to examine ourselves and remember what Christ has done.

    Second, the Sabbath. Oh, the Sabbath. I have battled this one plenty. Here is my conclusion:

    Matthew 5: 18-19 (ESV) - For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    I mean, Jesus sounds pretty serious about this. The Law will not pass away until all is accomplished. Now, the eye opener for me is what Jesus said right before this.

    Mathew 5:17 (ESV) - Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

    Jesus died on the cross and rose on the third day. All has been accomplished ("it is finished"). The Law has been fulfilled. What does this mean about the Sabbath: everyday is now a Sabbath. We can now rest everyday in Him. God's people were not permitted to perform any normal work on the Sabbath. Brothers & sisters: we have no more normal work. Everything we do is for the glory of God. Your job, parenting, chores, whatever. This is all to be done to bring God glory - everyday. Thus, the Law of the Sabbath has been fulfilled. Praise God!

    Ok I'm done thanks for listening :)
    in_HIS_hands likes this.
  5. 'And I will pray the Father,
    and He shall give you another Comforter,
    that He may abide with you for ever;
    Even the Spirit of truth;
    whom the world cannot receive,
    because it seeth Him not,
    neither knoweth Him:
    but ye know Him;
    for He dwelleth with you,
    and shall be in you.'

    (John 14:16.17)

    Hello @Wwinnie,
    I am so glad you have responded to an entry of mine, Winnie, for when I was leaving the computer earlier today, I saw your name, and felt I would like to say, 'Hello'. My middle name is Winnie, you see. :)

    You must wonder why I have quoted John 14:16,17, (above): well, I just had to, for I love it, don't you? I had been looking up a verse in the online concordance, and this one came with it, and I couldn't leave it behind. :)

    The verses I was looking for were John 4:23,24,
    'But the hour cometh,
    and now is,
    when the true worshippers
    shall worship the Father
    in spirit and in truth:
    for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
    God is a Spirit:
    and they that worship Him
    must worship Him in spirit and in truth.'

    The reason I wanted this verse, to use in my response to you, is because it is the essence of all that I have to say.
    The Corinthian believers were largely Jews. They kept the Passover feast.
    This ordinance was instituted in Matthew 26:26-30.
    'And as they were eating,' ( ie., the passover, see verses 17 and 19),
    'Jesus took bread,
    and blessed it,
    and brake it,
    and gave it to the disciples,
    and said, "Take, eat; this is my body."
    And He took the cup,
    and gave thanks,
    and gave it to them, saying, "Drink ye all of it;

    For this is My Blood of the New Testament,' (or covenant)
    which is shed for many
    for the remission of sins.
    But I say unto you,
    I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine,
    until that day when I drink it new with you
    in my Father's kingdom."

    And when they had sung an hymn,
    they went out into the mount of Olives.'

    This ordinance was instituted with His disciples, Jews, to whom the keeping of the Passover was a requirement. It was continued during the Acts period, in which the epistle to the Corinthians was written, but when Israel was laid aside (temporarily) in blindness and unbelief, at Acts 28, the New Covenant, with it's blessings, and it's ordinances went with them. For the New Covenant, like the Old Covenant will be established with redeemed Israel.

    This event heralded the introduction of a new dispensation, a new administration, and Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles was given the task of administrating it. This was given to Him by revelation while in prison in Rome. The epistles to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus, contain the content of that new administration, built on the basis of the foundational epistle to the Romans, with it's revelation concerning the identification of believers with their Lord and Saviour, in His death, burial, quickening, and resurrection (Romans 5:12-8:39).

    In Ephesians we see that identification taken further, to identification with Christ in His ascension to God's right hand, where we, who have been, 'accepted in the Beloved', and made, 'complete', in Him, are raised and seated with Him, awaiting His appearing in glory, when we shall 'appear' with Him there (Col.3:4). Praise God!

    In this new administration all is of the Spirit, and in spirit, hence my quoting from John at the beginning. The flesh counts for nothing, we worship God in spirit and in truth.

    With love to you, Winnie, :)
    In Christ Jesus

  6. Hello @Greg B,

    We appear to have entered our responses simultaneously. Yes, it is indeed finished. Praise God! We are, 'Complete' in Christ, there is nothing lacking, for His Work is complete and entire.

    With love to you,
    In Christ Jesus
    our risen and glorified
    Saviour, Lord and Head.


    Greg B likes this.
  7. The truth is simply that as Christians we choose to not keep the Sabbath. IF we choose to keep the Sabbath we could not do it if we wanted to.

    The Sabbath was part of the Law and as Christians we are not saved by keeping the Law but by the shed blood of Christ which washes away our sin instead of just covering it.

    Now as for Passover. Passover and Communion (Lord's Supper are two different events.) Believers in Messiah Jesus have a freedom to celebrate these holidays or not to celebrate them.

    The key to this is understanding that The Last Supper was itself part of a celebration of Passover. Knowing that He would be put to death in a few hours, Jesus told his disciples that He "eagerly desired to celebrate this Passover with you before I suffer" (Luke 22:15). At this celebration, He took elements of the Passover (the unleavened bread and the cup) and identified them as his body and blood, symbolizing his death.

    Other elements of the Passover are important symbols as well. The "lamb" points to the Lamb of God (John 1:29). Indeed, Jesus is the Passover Lamb. Paul tells us that as often as we eat this bread and drink of this cup (elements of the Passover and the heart of the Last Supper, or Communion), we proclaim the Lord's death until he comes (1 Corinthians 11:26).
  8. 'Man was not made for the sabbath but the sabbath was made for man.' So by not taking advantage of a day of rest we are not our best for God. Things wear out. Even the land is supposed to get a sabbath year or the soil nutrients deplete.
    Complete likes this.
  9. #9 CCW95A, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
    The Lords table was not for the Old Testament saints, or law, it was for the New Testament Church which is why Jesus said this, "... This cup is the new testament in my blood:..." (1 Cor 11:25)
  10. Agreed!
  11. Following the "Law" for salvation is legalism....

    Following the "Word" in faith is a choice in obedience to please the LORD.

    But pretending to be 'Christian' without recognition of sin, repentance and accepting that Christ was born of Virgin, died for your sins to be your Savior and is (right) NOW alive at the right hand God as the incarnate human form of God from the beginning (a recognition of Jesus Christ's deity), is folly.

    Be ye we wish to please God or not?

    We have to have the faith that Christ IS the only way, He IS the resurrection to life eternal...

    Maybe we should live life His Way? If we love Him, we obey Him. Just a thought....

    God forgive my hypocrisy...
  12. #12 Complete, Apr 12, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
    "This cup is the new testament in My blood:"
    (1 Corinthians 11:25)

    Hello @CCW95A,

    These words quoted by Paul, were the Lord's words, spoken to His disciples at the Passover feast (Luke 22:7-20, 29,30). In the case of the reference you have given in 1 Corinthians, the quotation was used as part of an exhortation to the believers who met together to 'brake bread' (a common Jewish idiom for simply partaking of a meal). The exhortation was that they behave in an orderly fashion, and remember that when they ate a communal meal together (a love feast), they were remembering the Lord's death till He come, and should behave accordingly.

    The New Testament is 'The New Covenant' (Jer. 31:31; Heb.8:8,13; Hebrews 12). As the Old Covenant was made with Israel, so shall the New Covenant be. The Acts church was partaking of the blessings of Israel, as those grafted into the Olive tree, After Acts 28, this was no longer the case.

    I don't want this thread to become divisive, CCW95A. So I will not pursue this further.

    In Christ Jesus


  13. Hello @Brother_Mike_V ,

    God bless you!

    We must love one another as He has loved us.
    In Christ Jesus
  14. Yes, but the the equation is Truth AND Grace IN Love

    We are called to have both: I am easy to lean towards Truth, and need to learn Grace, but both in Love.

    Others easily lean towards Grace, but need to learn Truth in love.

    The only Way to learn is communing in the Holy Spirit.
    Complete likes this.
  15. I was wondering, tho, keeping the Sabbath would mean keeping it the way it was commanded in the OT. Remember how they were commanded to keep it in the wilderness. Maybe we'd be even more blessed if we did that. I used to try to do no work on it. NoT Saturday, but Sunday. I don't believe the day matters. It did seem like a blessed day.
    Complete likes this.
  16. The only "ordinances" we are to be keeping are water baptism for the believer and communion.
  17. I agree, ©Winnie,

    I loved the peace and quiet of the Sunday, of the family meal together, and the services three times a day. Yet, I also remember that it was spoken of as a requirement, and lack of attendance was viewed critically. That I do not miss.

    Strangely, I find that my body needs the rest on Saturday, and on Sunday it feels ready for the working week. Saturday, of course, was the Jewish Sabbath, which they were to keep.

    Keeping one day of rest is beneficial for us in terms of health and well-being. Being able to meet with Christian friends around God's Word together, and worship collectively, on a day set apart by each one for that purpose is good too. However, no one is to judge the one who chooses not to meet up in that way.

    In Christ Jesus
  18. Hi @Ephemia,

    I believe that the keeping of any ordinance is not required for the members of the Church which is His Body, for we are 'accepted in the Beloved', and 'complete' in Him.

    In Christ Jesus
  19. We as children of the King have been commanded to be baptized, and to remember Jesus in the taking of bread and wine/juice until He comes.
    Abdicate likes this.
  20. Our brains are leaky, so we do these things to remember.

    1 Corinthians 11:25 (KJV)
    After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me.

    Requirement for earning something, no, requirement to remember, yes.
    Euphemia likes this.

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