The Raptures (Harpazo) of the Scriptures
- Thread starter Abdicate
- Start date
Hmmm that article is pretty convincing. I will have to take deeper look into this.I read a great article written by him about this! He talks about the "great falling way" is actually our departure!Check it out:
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html
I don't have a firm stance yet on when I believe the rapture will be. I believe it has to be either pre-trib or mid-trib. I have read a pretty convincing book that showed that it would be mid-trib(pre-wrath)...that is at the sounding of the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11. But I am starting to consider the pre-trib view more now.
Christians are not going to be judged on judgement day - we will be rewarded.
There is separation of the sheep and goats.
I just think don't worry about the timing because it is on God's timing not our own, but also heed the warnings in scripture about the anti-christ, because, even though he is here right now and working iniquity, we don't want to be deceived into following him if he comes disguised as an angel of light bearing another gospel and claiming he is Christ.
There is separation of the sheep and goats.
I just think don't worry about the timing because it is on God's timing not our own, but also heed the warnings in scripture about the anti-christ, because, even though he is here right now and working iniquity, we don't want to be deceived into following him if he comes disguised as an angel of light bearing another gospel and claiming he is Christ.
Abdicate actually I do not believe this to be true. God allotted man 120 years. Jubilee had nothing to do with this. Jubilee comes every 50 years.
The 70 to 80 year thing is wrong and here is why I believe this.
Numbers 13 and 14 tell us about the spies going out. Caleb and Joshua stayed in Faith with what God said that they could take the land. The others fell into fear and complained against moses and God and so forth.
Now two of them Joshua and Caleb went in to the promise land in the end where all the others who were older then 20 years fell dead in the wilderness at 70 years. God punished them for DISOBEDIENCE or all that complaining and such, he brought us out here to die, we are going to die in this wilderness, why did we follow him we want to go back to Egypt for he brought us out here to die.
God gave them one year for every day the spies went into the promised land to explore and bring their report. 40 days = 40 years in the wilderness.
Psalm 90:10 is still from this curse or punishment the God placed on them in the wilderness.
Christians have taken this 3 score and ten and ran with it as if it is Gods word for man and it WAS A CURSE FOR THOSE WHO WERE DISOBEDIENT.....
No disrespect @Abdicate and @Silk meant with this post. I am not all up to date with the entire end times thing but this part I have dug into for the 3 score and ten year thing also goes hand in hand working with those so called genealogical curses passed down generation after generation. Did a long study on this and stopped it in my life. It is a very interesting.
God Bless
Jim
There is the Judgment Seat of Christ, which is for believers, and then there is Judgment Day which is for everyone else. The Sheep and Goats Judgment takes during the Millennium. Chronologically is is this way:
1. Judgment Seat of Christ (the Bema Seat)
2. The Sheep and Goats Judgment
3. The Great White Throne Judgment, the final judgment
Lanolin Hello,
You are thinking correct for Jubilee is every 50 years. You got it correct. So here is your Gold Star. ; )
A Jubilee is the year after the 7th shmita (sabbath year). So yes, 7 Sabbath years, the next year is Jubilee - 50th year.
I'm only referring to the word in Genesis that God spoke:
Genesis 6:3 (KJV)
Then the LORD said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
Years is defined as:
- year
- as division of time
- as measure of time
- as indication of age
- a lifetime (of years of life)
That's how I see it because it wasn't until David's day that 70-80 years was allotted to men's lifespan, Psalm 90:9-10, some 1278 years later. Semantics count in the scriptures, in my opinion.
Psalm 90 is a prayer of Moses a man of GodI'm only referring to the word in Genesis that God spoke:
Genesis 6:3 (KJV)
Then the LORD said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
Years is defined as:
Many only apply definition #4, when it can be #1 or #2, which is what I'm saying. No one from the time of that statement did anyone live only to 120 years of age. It wasn't for another 500 years that Joseph was the "youngest" to die at 110. Nahor was 148 and everyone else was well into the 200-400 years, after the flood. God's comment was before the flood so He's talking about the time allotted mankind of 6,000 years because of their sins, not 120-year lifespan.
- year
- as division of time
- as measure of time
- as indication of age
- a lifetime (of years of life)
That's how I see it because it wasn't until David's day that 70-80 years was allotted to men's lifespan, Psalm 90:9-10, some 1278 years later. Semantics count in the scriptures, in my opinion.
Before anyone goes on the attack, I am not stating agreement or disagreement with pre-, mid-, or post-trib rapture doctrines, I am only posting some things that I think should be considered by all of us…
In the Revelation we are told that the Beast will make war on the saints. The phrase ‘saint’ or ‘saints’ is used throughout scripture to refer to those who have placed their faith in God. I will leave it to those with greater lingual training than I have to find a difference (if any) in the original translations.
We should also be careful when we speak of God’s wrath. By the definition that most people use, it is equated with physical and/or emotional suffering.
There are Christians around the world that suffer horribly even without active persecution.
In places where active persecution occurs, believers are beaten, tortured, raped, and killed in very painful manners on an everyday basis.
Throughout scripture we are shown that God’s wrath is not suffering, but suffering and final destruction. It is being placed eternally beyond hope. That does not apply to His saints.
Just something to think about, folks.
There is more that I could add, but I doubt I will respond further in this thread. Please feel free to message me...
Psalm 77:11-12
I will remember the works of the Lord: surely I will remember thy wonders of old.
I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
These are "words that Moses prayed". That does not mean that Moses wrote the psalm. Some Bible students think that he did. Other students think that later writers used words and ideas from "the Books of Moses". These are the first 5 books of the Bible. This psalm makes Bible students think of Genesis 3 and Deuteronomy 32. The psalm uses "words that Moses" said, from these books.
What came to mind for me also is how many followers of Christ are experiencing severe persecution each year, for the last, I don't know seven or eight. Thousands die every single month, at some point last here figures were quotes close to 600 per day - Middle East.
We have no clue where we are on the time scale, even if we think we can figure it out to some extent.
What I also do know is this: we are close, whether three, 16 or 35, we are just close.
More concerning: Is the bride of Christ ready for the Groom to arrive? I'd have to go with - not really.
We have no clue where we are on the time scale, even if we think we can figure it out to some extent.
What I also do know is this: we are close, whether three, 16 or 35, we are just close.
More concerning: Is the bride of Christ ready for the Groom to arrive? I'd have to go with - not really.
Yep! 144,000 male virgin Jews, 12,000 from each tribe, that are sealed by God for the purpose of providing the Gospel when we leave. God ALWAYS has a remnant.
The word "quickly" is the same word used for "next" so the idea is "behold I come next."
Raptures in Scripture
Enoch
Genesis 5:24 “And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
Jude 1:14-15 “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Hebrews 11:5-6 “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
Moses?
Deuteronomy 34:5-6 “So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.”
Elijah
2 Kings 2:9-13 “And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;”
Jesus
Acts 1:7-9 “And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
Ephesians 4:8-10 “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)”
Paul’s Friend (temp)
2 Corinthians 12:2-4 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Philip (temp)
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
John (temp)
Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rapture of the Faithful Church
1 Thessalonians 5:2-5 “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.”
Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
Luke 21:36 “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
Two Witnesses
Revelation 11:3-12 “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.”
Gather of the Faithful –
those that were not counted worthy before but are now (Luke 21:36)
Matthew 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Mark 13:24-27 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
When & Who
Hard to say, but we are not meant for wrath being under the Blood of Jesus. How can God’s punishment of the world fall on us? If we are the promised Bride of Christ and the body of Christ, then how is it we would be pummeled on the Earth, die, and then have the wedding feast in Heaven?
Ephesians 5:25-30 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
John 14:1-4 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
1 John 3:1-3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Psalms 27:5-6 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock. And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.
All of Ruth. Naomi is Israel, Ruth is the Church, Boaz is the Lord. Naomi returns to the Land of Israel, Ruth follows, and marries Ruth’s kindred, just like we will when Jesus returns.
Ambassadors
Before war, the ambassador’s are recalled.
2 Corinthians 5:20-21 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Enoch
Genesis 5:24 “And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
Jude 1:14-15 “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Hebrews 11:5-6 “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
Moses?
Deuteronomy 34:5-6 “So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.”
Elijah
2 Kings 2:9-13 “And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;”
Jesus
Acts 1:7-9 “And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
Ephesians 4:8-10 “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)”
Paul’s Friend (temp)
2 Corinthians 12:2-4 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.Philip (temp)
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
John (temp)
Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rapture of the Faithful Church
1 Thessalonians 5:2-5 “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.”
Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
Luke 21:36 “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
Two Witnesses
Revelation 11:3-12 “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.”
Gather of the Faithful –
those that were not counted worthy before but are now (Luke 21:36)
Matthew 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Mark 13:24-27 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
When & Who
Hard to say, but we are not meant for wrath being under the Blood of Jesus. How can God’s punishment of the world fall on us? If we are the promised Bride of Christ and the body of Christ, then how is it we would be pummeled on the Earth, die, and then have the wedding feast in Heaven?
Ephesians 5:25-30 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
John 14:1-4 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
1 John 3:1-3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Psalms 27:5-6 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock. And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.
All of Ruth. Naomi is Israel, Ruth is the Church, Boaz is the Lord. Naomi returns to the Land of Israel, Ruth follows, and marries Ruth’s kindred, just like we will when Jesus returns.
Ambassadors
Before war, the ambassador’s are recalled.
2 Corinthians 5:20-21 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.