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The Proper Place of the Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Noblemen, May 30, 2015.

  1. A little disclaimer: this is just my understanding of the Holy Spirit, and I welcome all rebuttals, thank you Mike ;-/))

    Modern religion has a great struggle with the person of the Holy Spirit. Most Bible teachers recognize the Holy Spirit to be a member ofGod's Trinity. We call the Holy Spirit "God the Holy Spirit. In some places, the name is the Holy Ghost, but either name means the same person. The great struggle in religion has been with the Holy Spirit, by making Him Christ. Of coarse, if you said that to someone doing this, they would strongly deny it. But if you ask them how Christ is in the believer, they would say by the Holy Spirit, meaning that at some point the meaning of the Scriptures changes from Christ in you, , to the Holy Spirit in you.

    Many modern theologians would say that is not talking about Christ in the believer, but rather the Holy Spirit. In all my years of searching the Scriptures I have never found a verse that says Christ is the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit is the life of the saved believer. The fact is the Spirit of God the Father is in the believer, Eph. 4:6, the Spirit of God the Son is in the believer, and God the Holy Spirit is in every believer. But never does one become the other, first John 4:13.

    What then is the work of the Holy Spirit? Paul speaks of the believer being filled with the Holy Spirit, how does this happen? Once againPaul's revelation, from Christ, dealing with the tripartite man in body, soul and spirit, becomes invaluable. Christ is in our spirit, joined to our spirit, . The Holy Spirit is joined to our soul. He is given, by Christ, as a gift to every born-again believer when he is saved. He is not Christ, He is not our Savior, He did not die on the cross, He is not our life. He is plainly announced and defined by Jesus in His last message.

    At least seven times John chapters 14, 15 and 16 say that the coming of the Holy Spirit is to teach the believer all about Christ, what He will do and who He is in the believer. He is not to have a ministry of His own, except to "take the things of Christ" and reveal them unto us. This means that the Holy Spirit's main mission is to reveal to the believer that Christ lives in him, To reveal to the sinner his need of a Savior, and to reveal to the world who the true God is, first Corinthians 2:8–11.

    The Holy Spirit is in the soulish area of man. His work has to do with our minds, our will and our emotions. He works where we make decisions and teaches us daily about the Christ in us. He is not the power of the believer. The power is from the Life, the Christ-Life. The Holy Spirit's power is in our learning what He is teaching us about the Christ in us. The believer has no power within himself. The believer has been crucified with Christ, Christ is to live the life of the believer, Second Corinthians 4:10–11. Too often believers are confused concerning the work of the Holy Spirit. Religion has taught that the Holy Spirit comes to make the believer strong, and more powerful, and to give the believer a ministry. Actually the Holy Spirit has come to make Christ the life and ministry of the believer. The believer is dead in Christ is the only life a believer has. To confuse this places Christ within the believer as a nobody while the believer takes all the glory for living.
  2. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON, and fully is God, the Spirit is a full person of the Trinity. HE is not an IT but fully God.

    Doctrine on the Holy Spirit is difficult to speak about, because it defies normal theo-logical definition. All activity of God in earthly or churchly life is by the Spirit. Without the Spirit, the Bible would be a closed book to us, the sacraments would be mere ritual, our lives would not be inspired to change with redirection and growth in Christ.

    Our churches would fail to be a fellowship and would not be knit together as a body. In a sense, we talk around the Spirit rather than on the Spirit; we describe the effects but not the nature. Yet, since we can't comprehend any of God's work on earth without the Spirit, we cannot engage in theo-logy without talking theo-illogically about the Spirit.

    The Holy Spirit does not bear witness of itself but of Christ - which of course makes the Spirit even harder to understand. The Spirit does not physically do anything. All action happens through the physical world's beings and activities. So it's easy to mistake the Spirit's work for our own work, or that of other people or of nature or science or society -- and vice versa. Easy, but crucially wrong. Most Bible scholars have described the Holy Spirit as "the subjective reality of revelation".
    Noblemen likes this.
  3. Amen I agree whole heartedly. When we speak of revelation I feel like the main ministry of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Christ in us, to us, as our only life, Galatians 1: 11–12, 15–16, 2:20.
  4. The only thing I'll add to the conversation is the passage where Jesus tells the Apostles and Disciples that He has to go away, for two reasons:

    1. He has gone to "prepare a place for us"
    2. So that the "Comforter" would come and lead us in all truth.

    Jesus "the Christ" (Messiah) is our witness before the Father; the slaughtered Lamb, resurrected and reigning in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit is here with us, and in us, "guiding us" to the extent that we listen.

    The only thing that can muddy the waters in a discussion like this, is when we talk of the Trinity; however I think I read somewhere in here, (being a newbie here and wanting to follow the rules) that we are not to venture into that area, is that correct? If so, I'll let it lay there.

    Suffice to say, I've often felt that it was incorrect to say that we take "Jesus" into our hearts, exclusively. Rather that the Holy Spirit comes (ref.: Pentecost as the first example) and dwells within; and that since the Holy Spirit is "one" with the Father and the Son, it COULD be said that we are "indwelt by God" if you really wanna split hairs (lol).

    Rather, that we willingly accept that Jesus was who He said He was; that He was crucified, died and was raised from the dead; that He ascended into Heaven, and is seated at the Right Hand of the Father, and that He will come again, to redeem His own.

  5. Sure Steve I agree, what about the weight of Scripture, Paul placing the believer in Christ over 140 something times, just asking.
  6. In Truth, we ARE "in Christ" in the sense that He is as much a part of "God" as is the Father and the Holy Spirit. Each with their own role in being "God" to the creation they brought into existence.

    There's a number of ways that being "in Christ" is amplified in Scripture, including being "in Him" in His Sufferings, and so forth.

    Noblemen likes this.
  7. Absolutely.
    Noblemen likes this.
  8. Amen thank you
  9. Steve, the rules do not say that the Trinity can not be disused.

    I would add to your comment of...........
    "and that since the Holy Spirit is "one" with the Father and the Son, it COULD be said that we are "indwelt by God" if you really wanna split hairs":

    that since the Holy Spirit IS God we are indeed indwelt by God.
    Noblemen likes this.
  10. Well I'm glad that I didn't cross any boundaries! (lol) "Thanks" for that!
    Liked your added portion. It holds true to Scripture.

    Noblemen likes this.
  11. Blessings to you my brother and welcome! I hope to read more from you .

    Many years ago I loved to watch "Soupy Sales" as a child.
    Fish Catcher Jim and Noblemen say Amen and like this.

  12. Soupy Sales was quite a character. I remember him as well.

    Fish Catcher Jim and Noblemen say Amen and like this.
  13. As I understand it, God the Father is the power source, Jesus is our understanding of God and is the physical connector for us to God, and the Holy Spirit is the spiritual connection of God. All are the essence of God. To be in Christ, we are physically connected to God. Christ knocks on the door to our hearts, again an image for us of a physical action. Through Christ we have a physical example of how to love and live. Through Jesus(The Word) were all things created. This teaches me that Jesus is God's physical connection to the universe and this world. All that we can really fathom of God is the personification of God in the form of Jesus.

    Once we are "plugged in" to the connector (Jesus Christ), we then can receive the spiritual connection(Holy Spirit) to the power of God, albeit what we can handle of that power. References of being filled with the Holy Spirit in the New Testament are mentioned often, giving healing abilities and other miracles. Oh to be filled with the Spirit! I feel like I only allow a teaspoon full of the Spirit in the coffee cup of my soul.
    Noblemen likes this.
  14. The significance of being "in Christ" as opposed to the Holy Spirit or the Father is because only Christ had the physical body necessary to redeem our physical bodies, and redeem the physical creation.
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  15. Nobleman, it seems to me that you are taking things that are quite simple and making them even more confusing and convoluted.
    I do not accept that there is any difference between the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father, other than different terminology for the same thing. Using different terminology for the same thing happens throughout scripture. That is why there are perhaps hundreds of different names for God in scripture, yet only one God.

    Jesus, even before his incarnation, always was and always is the eternal son of God, the Christ. Yet despite the obvious power and authority he possessed as the Son of God, every last bit of his earthly ministry was conducted solely by the power of Holy Spirit which he did not receive till his baptism. Jesus walked as the second Adam, a man, not God.

    Jesus constantly emphasised that he was doing all his miracles not as a son of God, but as "son of man" empowered the Holy Spirit. Had Jesus been working under his own sovereign power, we would have seen that being exhibited prior to being given the Spirit at his baptism.
    As sons of our heavenly Father all our Christian activity is meant to be done under the power of the Holy Spirit just like Jesus commanded. The fact that many believers operate out of their flesh doesn't alter the basic truth.

    Now if as you say, the Holy Spirit has come to make us operate under Christ's rather than the Holy Spirit's power, (as if they is something completely different), where does that leave Christ himself, who left his own power dormant. Did the Holy Spirit come on Christ in order to make Christ operate as Christ himself?
    Jesus had to be directly empowered by the Holy Spirit because it was imperative that He walked in the same power that his brothers would be walking in after Pentecost, or to put it another way, christians must walk the same way as Christ did, and it is clear that he walked directly in the power of the Holy Spirit.
    By making the spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit into two different things, you are creating a problem that doesn't otherwise exist.

    Rom8v11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

    If we are being pedantic, this seems to make it clear that it is the Holy Spirit not Jesus himself that is doing the work in us and empowering us.

    Again, it seems to me that you are creating a problem that doesn't exist. Whether you call him the Spirit of God, Spirit of the Father, The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, etc., they are all one in the same spirit.
    Major and Noblemen say Amen and like this.

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