The Pope: Man Of God? Or Man Of Perdition?!
- Thread starter Ricko1
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like I said .. it is in someones mind .. show me the hieroglyphics which say this ..
You are correct...I HATE FALSE TEACHINGS And Those who spread false Gospel teachings...The RCC is #1 on that list......Tell me what I " Lied" About so we can see if I lie or not. Pick a subject the RCC Teaches, )let us all see if it is real Christian Gospel teaching...I am going to bed right now...Print whatever you wish, I will answer it tomorrow promise...Good Night..
I also object to your CHEER-LEADING of it ..
Hey all, I hope you don't mind my joining in here at this late moment, ...peace and love.
aha, I believe Jesus used the leftover bread of Passover so wouldn't that of been unleavened bread, my church in the States, being about 35 believers, used a roll or small loaf of bread which every one tore off their own portion, here we do the same thing, I can see in a church of hundreds the necessity of something more practical, but, the bread, in whatever form is symbolic and is by no means the actual body of Christ, if it were true that would mean He had to die multiple millions and billions of times since Calvary, but we read in Hebrews He died one time for all Heb 7:27, 9:12, 28, 10:10.
Here are some unsettled questions I have floating around in my head after listening to my Catholic friends talk, I hope you don't mind me verbalizing them, I'm not looking to start a debate, just curious.
I think I remember reading Peter was crucified at Rome, so if that is true then he did visit Rome, but here is a trivial little fact that has me wondering, when Paul was giving his closing salutation to the church in Rome, he mentioned many people, but not Peter, ...how could Paul of made that fax pas if Peter was the first pope?
Also, if Peter was the first pope then when did God bestow that title on him, was it at the time of Matt 16:18 or later, the day of Pentecost maybe?
Anyway, if so, here's another trivial fact that I'm wondering about, it is recorded by the Holy Spirit for us in the book of Galatians 2:11 that Peter was wrong and Paul got in his face, since he clearly was wrong, how can someone claim the infallibly of the pope of today, with the succession of all the popes from Peter, ...if Peter was wrong?
Blessings,
Gene
aha, I believe Jesus used the leftover bread of Passover so wouldn't that of been unleavened bread, my church in the States, being about 35 believers, used a roll or small loaf of bread which every one tore off their own portion, here we do the same thing, I can see in a church of hundreds the necessity of something more practical, but, the bread, in whatever form is symbolic and is by no means the actual body of Christ, if it were true that would mean He had to die multiple millions and billions of times since Calvary, but we read in Hebrews He died one time for all Heb 7:27, 9:12, 28, 10:10.
Here are some unsettled questions I have floating around in my head after listening to my Catholic friends talk, I hope you don't mind me verbalizing them, I'm not looking to start a debate, just curious.
I think I remember reading Peter was crucified at Rome, so if that is true then he did visit Rome, but here is a trivial little fact that has me wondering, when Paul was giving his closing salutation to the church in Rome, he mentioned many people, but not Peter, ...how could Paul of made that fax pas if Peter was the first pope?
Also, if Peter was the first pope then when did God bestow that title on him, was it at the time of Matt 16:18 or later, the day of Pentecost maybe?
Anyway, if so, here's another trivial fact that I'm wondering about, it is recorded by the Holy Spirit for us in the book of Galatians 2:11 that Peter was wrong and Paul got in his face, since he clearly was wrong, how can someone claim the infallibly of the pope of today, with the succession of all the popes from Peter, ...if Peter was wrong?
Blessings,
Gene
well you are number 1 on my list .. you are NOT preaching love ..
you sow the seeds of discord and division ..
and that is the lie .. you said you started this thread about the Pope ..
I KNEW it was just your sly way to then move into an attack on the RCC ..
Calvin, with respect to the Eucharist, he staked out a position between Luther’s belief in the Real Presence on the one hand and Zwingli’s purely symbolic, memorial view on the other. Christ’s Body and Blood were dynamically or virtually “present” in the Eucharist and received through faith. In other words, the grace of Christ was present, but not the substance of his Body and Blood. This view, sometimes called the Dynamic or Virtual Presence, makes it difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish Christ’s presence in the Eucharist from his presence in Baptism or any other occasion of grace. For the “power” of Jesus’ Body and Blood are present in other places as well. What distinguishes the Eucharistic presence of Jesus, then, from his presence in, say, Scripture attended to with faith or a sermon devoutly received?[/quote]
The Lord Jesus is not present in the eucharist in any way; it is, however, present in His words: "The words that I speak to you. they are Spirit and they are Life." The Lord's words prepare the heart to receive grace (the Holy spirit), and thereby we receive eternal life. That is the only way we be "...in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Let's walk in the Spirit, Beloved.
So this is a deliberate act on your part? Do you prefer doctrine that is contrary to the gospel that saves? It's hard to believe!
There was (still is?) an item in the Reader's Digest that I enjoyed reading. It was called: "Your Slip is Showing". That title can apply to a lot of situations.
Ricko you still have not answered Aha's question , is your church the same Apostolic Church as you state on your profile :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Christian_Church ... ?
History :The origins of the Apostolic Christian Church are found in the dramatic conversion experience of Samuel Heinrich Froehlich[1] (1803–1857) of Switzerland. Froehlich was baptized in 1832 and soon founded the Evangelical Baptist Church. The first American church was formed in Lewis County, New York in 1847 by Benedict Weyeneth (1819–1887), who had been sent by Froehlich at the request of Joseph Virkler, a Lewis County minister in an Alsatian Amish-Mennonite church. In 1848 a church was formed in Sardis, Ohio. The church experienced primary growth in the midwest, where many congregations formed first as part of a schism in the Amish and Mennonite churches. Though sometimes referred to as the New Amish, these believers generally called themselves Evangelical Baptist. In 1917, the church adopted a uniform name - Apostolic Christian Church.
Religious Practice :
Members seek to obey the Bible, which they hold to be the infallible Word of God. Many of their practices, however, are not explicitly derived from the Bible. Rather, some of them are biblically inspired traditions derived from the writings of Froehlich (who was strongly influenced by early church writers such as Tertullian) and some are past practices found to be beneficial. These traditions are passed from one generation to the next and are held in high esteem, but never meant to approach the level of Biblical commandments (same as RCC ). Members are disciplined out of love, and the degree of discipline varies on the degree of sin. If the member commits a sin unto death (mortal sin, same as RCC) , as laid out by the bible, he or she will be excommunicated (same as RCC), but never shunned. Members are disciplined because of sin and not, as commonly misconceived, because of adherence to traditions (you have tradions also). Traditions within the Apostolic Christian Church help encourage believers in their commitment to serving the Lord, help to knit generations together, and provide close harmony among the various congregations (same as RCC).
Conversion :
The conversion experienced by each member varies in timing and detail, but all include repentance for one's sins, making restitution, confessing sins to God while in the presence of an elder of the church, and finding peace with God.
( confessing in the presence of an elder... the RCC has this also confessing to an elder)
Worship : (this is what the RCC does also, a little different but most of these practices that you do in your church during service, Ricko, are what the RCC does at mass... we sing, we praise our Lord, we pray, we read from the OT and the NT and the priest reads the Gospel of Christ) :
- Worship services are held on Sunday while various churches also conduct additional mid-week services.
- Sunday services in the ACCA are as follows:
- Public worship services in the morning and afternoon, usually of the following format:
- The congregation sings several songs before the service starts
- The congregation prays together in silence asking for the Holy Spirit's leadership
- A minister opens to a random Old Testament passage, and sometimes discusses it briefly
- The minister selects a hymn to be sung by the congregation, the congregation sings, and then the minister prays out loud
- The minister opens to a random passage in the New Testament - this passage serves as the basis of most of the sermon, although the Old Testament passage (or fore-reading) is often referred to as well
- A second minister provides some closing or summarizing thoughts and either selects a closing hymn or asks the congregation to suggest one
- A minister gives the opportunity for a male member of the congregation to lead the group in prayer
- A minister "takes greetings". Members stand up and announce other AC churches that they have recently traveled to or are traveling from
- A final hymn is sometimes sung following the afternoon service.
- Public worship services in the morning and afternoon, usually of the following format:
- Midweek services consist of a single service, generally of the same format as the Sunday services
- Some congregations conduct Bible studies and classes as part of the routine church schedule . In addition, some local fellowships have outside study groups and classes among members. However, there is no standard format for these bible studies across all churches. Some congregations do not encourage Bible studies among groups of members. Personal Bible study is always encouraged and expected.
- Female members are expected to wear a Christian headcovering during prayer and worship. Wearing of a head covering when praying outside of church, when with other believers, and at other times is encouraged to varying degrees among the congregations, but the Biblical basis is somewhat universally recognized.
- Within the Apostolic Christian Churches (Nazarean), singing often includes instrumental accompaniment.
- Another hymnal used in church services, the Hymns of Zion, includes arrangements and lyrics more commonly used in other denominations, but also includes several written by members of the American congregations. This book was originally envisioned as a Sunday-School hymnal, but gained popularity with the church as a whole. Beginning in 2012, some ACCA churches have transitioned from the Hymns of Zion to the new "combined hymnal" which is a combination of the Hymns of Zion and the Tabernacle Hymns. The latter has long been used in Sunday Schools.
Biblical practices and tradition: (some are same as RCC, most not)
- Communion is served once (to several times) a year at varying times, usually near Easter. Communion services are a closed service, with only members and converts present. Communion is typically preceded by a period, typically around a month, of self-examination and restitution, if needed. (similar as RCC before Easter called Lent)
- Communion The bread and the fruit of the vine in Holy Communion symbolize the body and the blood of Christ.
- The Holy Kiss is the greeting used in Apostolic Christian churches based on the epistles of Paul and the general epistle of 1 Peter. Men greet men and women greet women. Men and women just shake hands and say "Greetings Brother" and "Greetings Sister."( we shake hands and give peace to each other as our Lord gave us)
- Marriage between "a man and a woman of like mind, faith, and fellowship" is encouraged for all members where God leads. In the Apostolic Christian Church of America, Christian Apostolic Church, German Apostolic Christian Church, and the Apostolic Christian Church (Nazarean), dating is discouraged. (dating yes for us, as long as one remains pure)
- Members of the Apostolic Christian Church of America are somewhat discouraged from visiting churches of other denominations. In the Christian Apostolic Church, it is forbidden except for funerals. In the German Apostolic Christian Church, visitors are requested to obtain an elder's permission before attending services, and members do not visit other services, even for wedding or funerals. (we don't have such legalistic austere demands on all, and if one is a lover of Christ and secure in their faith what does it matter they attend a funeral or attend other services in other churches... i have been to service of Baptist and Evangelist and the RCC does not say i can't)
- In all traditional AC groups, permanent lifelong excommunication is practiced in certain cases.
- Television and radio are not permitted in the Christian Apostolic Church or German Apostolic Christian Church. The use television in ACCA churches varies considerably by congregation and family. (we do not have this either)
- In 1932 all Apostolic Christian groups required a beard without mustache (except the Nazareans), but by the 1950s it was discouraged in all groups. (RCC never required anyone whether to shave or not)
- In the ACCA and Acc Nazarean, members are encouraged to wear modest attire that provides gender distinction. (RCC also)
You have Ministers, Deacons and Elders, leading Ministers, Ministers, Elder body... seems like a well organized religion that administers authority from the top down... The office of elder is seen as equivalent to that of a bishop as described in the epistles of 1 Timothy and Titus. The elder of each congregation has the oversight of the local congregation but is subject to the authority of the other elders throughout the denomination. Once put in place, Ministers, Deacons and Elders can only be removed of their position by death, voluntary retirement or in extreme cases by the national elder body.
Elders are chosen from the pool of ministers.
Each local church Elder serves as an equal member within the collective "Elder Body" of all elders who make decisions regarding the denomination.
i find this as a place i would visit and pray with because i am secure in my faith and love of my Lord Jesus the Christ, though i may not be welcomed, but i see nothing wrong in this church, there are many differences but it seems you love our Lord Jesus and you preach salvation and eternal life to your congregation. i don't agree with all your practices and i do differ with many... but i find great beauty and love in the mass, in the mass of my church, it is the reverence to God i find most fulfilling in the service of the mass.
So if I understand you correctly you call the pope papa?
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.Matt 23:9
Sorry, but you said it, ...back to Gal 2:11,
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
That sounds to me that Paul had more authority than Peter in the church because Peter evidently didn't protest but rather submitted to the reprimand, how can that be ? Also you didn't answer my question as to when Jesus bestowed the position of pope (papa) on Peter, was it before or after the event in Gal 2:11 and I can't believe you are saying being a hypocrite is not wrong, can you explain that more fully?
One more thing bro, as has been stated many times, this is a predominately Protestant forum, so you posting here is like throwing yourself in a lion's den, you need to be prepared for all of the flack that is going to come your way, and it has been my experience that those that have left the catholic church tend to be the most anti-catholic and vocal, there are many loving, Spirit filled believers here and we welcome you with the love of Christ and enjoy talking with you (even though the church you are defending has killed millions of our brothers and sisters in Christ), so if you want to continue to post here with any credibility you will need to control your emotions and also be filled with tons of brotherly love and patience from the Holy Spirit.
Blessings,
Gene
I agree…..the bread in whatever form… is symbolic…
The direction of my question is towards the spirit of the matter…..although before that…. am yet to establish what Ricko1 practices…..
And am still not sure what Ricko1 practices……
He answered “Absolutely not” for the wafer, or their church use another type of bread….. or there really none of such activity....
This is not a church I go to weekly.
The Church I attend and worship is non denominal it is known by various names throughout the world. We are called " Jesus name" people. We are independent and not affiliated with other churches of same beliefs in respect to each ones standards and worship. The Doctrines taught in The Bible however are rooted in each church in our fellowship Worldwide. We follow exactly what The Bible teaches regarding what The Lord and Apostles taught in the Original, First Century Church.
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
Enough
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