Surrender: What's it mean?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Phoneman777, Oct 1, 2014.

  1. #1 Phoneman777, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
    We hear a lot about the idea of Surrender these days. Though it's not new, it has really taken center stage as the attitude that should accompany worshipers involved in the Contemporary Christian Music Movement that is so popular today. With eyes shut and hands raised to heaven, the many smiling faces of people swaying to and fro to the music seem to epitomize what surrender is all about. But, just what does the idea of Surrender mean?

    When two nations are at war and one finally surrenders to the other, one thing above all others is paramount:
    The conquered give up their right to govern themselves and accept whatever terms of governance are imposed upon them by the conqueror.

    When Japan surrendered to General MacArthur in WWII, they effectively gave up their right to self rule and submitted to whatever terms were imposed upon them by him. The interesting thing is that when the Japanese discovered just how fair, benevolent, and reasonable the terms of governance imposed upon them were, they fell in love with their conqueror.

    In the same way, shouldn't we who claim to be surrendered to Jesus accept whatever His terms are for our lives, especially when we know how just and good He is? A people cannot be simultaneously surrendered and in rebellion at the same time. It's a shame that so many Christians today believe they can be simultaneously surrendered to Jesus and yet in rebellion to the commandments that He wrote with His own finger on those tables of stone.
     
    KingJ likes this.
  2. Good thoughts my brother.

    By the way.....I am not a fan of contemporary music in the church. When seen in action with spiritual discernment it appears more like hypnosis than worship. But again....that is only ME saying that and anyone is welcome to reject my thinking.
     
    Silk and Phoneman777 say Amen and like this.
  3. Well.. Since you are so kind to offer and all... I reject it...

    I suppose I will be happy to put myself into the good company of King David and Martin Luther for enjoying worship styles that other people at one point or another have summarily declared "Scandalous"....
     
  4. No problem John! We all have different opinions and thoughts and I respect yours greatly.
     
  5. Very astute, bro.
     
    Major likes this.
  6. Agreed! though I enjoy any music outside of church. In church it is so easy to focus on God when singing those anointed simple Hymns sung for centuries. God definitely had a hand in keeping them. Will we sing the same contemporary songs next year?
     
    Silk, Phoneman777 and Major says Amen and like this.
  7. I agree wholeheartedly brother. Today's Contemporary Christian Music Movement performers utilize the same Satanic rhythms as rock/pop music b/c they claim that music is neutral - its the lyrics that matter. Funny how Satan's disciples declare the very opposite:

    "But I can explain everything better through music. You hypnotize people...and when you get people at their weakest point, you can preach into the subconscious what we want to say." - Jimi Hendrix

    "I believe in the transformative power of rock and roll...this transformative power inheres not so much in the works of the songs or the stances of the stars, but in the music itself - in the sound, and above all, in the beat." - Robert Palmer

    "Rock music is sex. The big beat matches the body's rhythms." - Frank Zappa

    Check out Media On The Brain for a whole host of other such candid admissions by the artists themselves.
     
  8. Brother John, I agree. Who cares what people think is scandalous if they're wrong? Though the Catholic church accused Martin Luther of scandal, it is important to remember that he and Ignatius Loyola were contemporaries, both desperately seeking acceptance of God even to the point of extreme mental and physical anguish.

    End the end, Luther resolved to put his trust and faith implicitly in the Scriptures. Loyola refused to do that and stubbornly held out for a "sign from God" that he was accepted. He eventually got what he was seeking - but the supernatural manifestations he received were not from God at all.

    From Loyola's experiences were developed the "Spiritual Exercises Of Loyola", which were and are nothing more than the borrowed practices from ancient pagan mysticism. These became the guide to modern deep Catholic religious experience for both leaders and laity alike. They have now crept into Protestant Christianity and are quietly infiltrating our teaching, preaching, and worship services and most importantly have opened a door for the same dark experiences that deceived Loyola. Alpha Evangelism, Contemplative Prayer Practices, Supernatural Experientialism/Spiritualism in worship, etc., are sweeping over the Protestant church like never before and are seen as evidence of the "moving of the Holy Spirit". This is what I think separates what is happening today from the "scandal" of Luther and David.
     
    Silk likes this.
  9. Amen my brother! Your insights are very encouraging!
     
    Phoneman777 likes this.
  10. I agree that surrender is as you describe and that this is not being taught much at all in today's modern church movement. Jesus said that if anyone is to come after him he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow (obey) Jesus. We are crucified with Christ so that the "I" in us no longer lives (reigns) but Christ lives in us, and the lives we now live we live by faith in him. When we come to Christ in faith we die to our old lives of living for self and sin, we are transformed in heart and mind of the Spirit of God, and we are given new lives in Christ, "created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." Jesus died so we would no longer live for ourselves but for him who died for us. He didn't die just to forgive us our sins but to free us from enslavement to sin and to free us to be slaves of righteousness. When we were slaves to sin we were free from the control of righteousness. Yet, today's modern church, in their efforts to make church fun, exciting and enjoyable, free from anything which might offend or bring discomfort, have diluted the gospel message so as to not mention this aspect of our Holy Spirit transformed lives.
     
    Silk and Phoneman777 say Amen and like this.
  11. #11 Phoneman777, Nov 7, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2014
    By God's grace, if we continue to take up the cross daily, others are sure to see by our actions the"living sacrifice" that Jesus intended His followers to make on a daily basis.
     
    Major and SueJLove say Amen and like this.
  12. Agreed. There is a reason why "Rock and Roll" was used to describe the beat of that kind of music. I will leave it all of you who are interested to investigate that and find out for yourselves. I will say that the "beat" is certainly not from heaven but maybe the opposite.
     
    Phoneman777 likes this.
  13. It is a blessing to be in agreement.
     
  14. In the same way, shouldn't we who claim to be surrendered to Jesus accept whatever His terms are for our lives, especially when we know how just and good He is? A people cannot be simultaneously surrendered and in rebellion at the same time. It's a shame that so many Christians today believe they can be simultaneously surrendered to Jesus and yet in rebellion to the commandments that He wrote with His own finger on those tables of stone.[/QUOTE]

    Dear Sweet Wonderful Lord

    All I want to do is give my life to You.
    In the name of Christ Jesus I pray
    that You will bring me to the place
    You have prepared for me.

    This world has nothing to offer me;
    I know that You have something
    for me to do.

    I feel weary as if I cannot go on.
    Please give me strength.
    I know that the war is already won
    but the battles seem endless.

    I endure the ugliness of my nature,
    I pray for today that I can get out of self
    and focus on You.

    I pray through me people will see
    the example of You who dwells
    with in me.

    I pray that Your spirit will
    speak loudly and teach me Your paths.
    Apart from You I can do nothing.

    Let me possess the gifts given from You
    and the faith to execute them.

    Purge my heart and mind
    of the wickedness of my flesh;
    use me, as You will.


    Thy will be done!


    peter
     

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