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Sin in the church leadership

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Klub, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Within the past few weeks, two pretty well established families in my church have left. Their reason for this is because there is a great sin in the leadership, and knowledge of it interfered with their ability to worship in our church. As for specifics, I do not know who, or what the sin is, because it has not directly affected me.

    However, should I pursue the whole story? On one hand, I do not want to participate in idle/demeaning talk about another brother, but I do want to know the truth. For these men to pull their families out is a big deal, because they are well grounded in their faith, and both were well known leaders.

    So should I pursue the specifics, or should I leave the closet light off?
  2. Ask the Holy Spirit.
    Cturtle and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  3. Personally I wouldn't pursue it. Although leaders should be example, I do think they are often punished too hard. Walking away isn't a solution either. Everybody sins and we have the obligation to help someone to overcome that sin.

    If you want to know the truth, you should ask yourself if you want your sins displayed for the whole church? What do you gain with that knowledge?

    Cturtle and dUmPsTeR say Amen and like this.
  4. I think this is one of those things where there is answer right out of book.. One of those cases where we can get the answer only on our knees! I will pray for your Church
  5. What do your parents have to say about it? Did these 2 families announce this in church? I think leadership should be held to a higher standard in terms of personal and public life but it might not be something that needs hashing out in front of adults and children. I would want to know if I was 12 or 62, tho. I have added your household and church to my prayers.
  6. Smoke comes from a fire. I always advise going t the source.

    Matthew 18:15 ESV ............
    “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. "

    Galatians 6:1-2 ESV ...........
    "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. "
  7. As far as my parents, they are on board with finding the truth. The two families did not announce it publicly, just to the people who were close to them in the church body.

    1 timothy 5:19-20 esv
    Do not admit a charge against an elder except in the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

    The concern for me, and the others who are involved, is that this will be swept under the rug. We are not trying to publicly hang the deacon, however, we feel that the core body of the church should be informed that there are problems that need to be addressed. After all, it is the body of the church who elected the leaders, if the leaders aren't holding true to their teachings, it should be known to those who elected them.

    Again, I'm not saying that I'd like to see this man stand up on a sunday morning, and confess his sins to the congregation. But instead, allow the core group of folks in the church (about 20 or so people) to atleast know what is going on and support him in prayer or other means of help.
  8. If the church leadership did anything wrong, they have a moral duty to come forward and admit their wrongdoings. If they didn't but know something is in the air (rumors), I think they should come forward and make sure the congregation knows they aren't oblivious to it and to mend any doubts they may have with their integrity. (Perhaps on wrong on this one, but I think that is the best thing to do).

    If nothing is coming forward, it may be worth finding out -- but in deep prayer. If, say, the church leadership is abusing the offerings given by the congregation or taking advantage of women by having liaisons with them (as I have seen in a church I went to growing up), then I wouldn't stick around. Does it mean Christianity is wrong? No. It means these people need to get right with God before they can even begin to lead a flock.

    This is why church leaders must be held accountable.
  9. Some church leaders are as deceptive as Satan himself. We hear of abuse throughout some churches and it is sickening.
    It truly puts all of us ministers in disrespute. My advice would be pray and if the church is doubtful in your mind move to another church.
    Trust in God. (y)
  10. You nailed it.
    Satan is crafty...I mean, really crafty. The most effective work he can do is to mislead people within a group or cause that seems to be outside of himself. It's clever.
  11. The other side of this is:
    It's not our job to gin up or perpetuate scandal within the body. There IS ALREADY a mechanism within churches for dealing with problems within leadership - and that process generally doesn't involve either spreading gossip or blowing it up in front of the entire congregation....

    What happens when people start getting interested and curious is "False Witness".... In the digging around for juicy tidbits - we forget that the "True Witness" is the one who ACTUALLY witnessed the thing in question.... Everybody else who is repeating it is a "False Witness" - no matter how good the intentions....

    So - within your heart - if you feel that the leadership is not doing their duty in the situation - then you should LEAVE because the place has bigger problems! If God is leading you to leave - then get moving. If God is leading you to Stay - then quit worrying about it and stay....
  12. Why are you saying this? Do you think church leaders are the only ones who can be deceptive? Isn't all abuse sickening. Do you know any church at all that have sinless leaders? I don't think moving to another church is a solution. Is there something wrong in your church, make a change. It is so easy to switch churches if there is something wrong with your church. Where is the commitment to your congregation. Walking away is easy, dealing with the problems a lot more difficult.

    I do think that the leaders of the church should be accountable for their sins. And is there a problem with adultry make sure they never interact with women alone anymore. But why should that not apply for all Christians? And why not forgive them if they ask for forgiveness.
  13. I never said not to forgive them. I know roughly about 30 churches that have sin rushing through them. My friend, please understand...I know many people, some of which feel like they have just walked into Hell every Sunday attending church. I myself found it difficult attending some churches in my teens. I have a duty as a priest to ensure that all are engaging with God and throwing Satan back into the fire. My father is the Arch Deacon of our area and he knows in excess of 100 sinful leaders which has been documented.
    My church isn't the issue, a minority of other churches is.
    I am pleased to say I have never had anyone leave my congregation...ever.
    You're right, it isn't just church leaders but all man kind...however that isn't the title of this thread.
  14. There are scriptural examples where one person can rob a whole congregation of a blessing.
    I expect the church isn't going anywhere until the thing gets straightened out, in a mature christian manner.
  15. They say 99 days for the thief and one day for the owner.... God's not dead let him unveil and treat the situation as he deems fit. Just keep on going for fellowships, building and enjoying your faith in Christ cos what you dig up may quench the fire burning within you... even though you are strong in your faith in Christ also consider people who might have searched for a dwelling place to worship for years and finally found your church, what u dig up may leave them hanging or worse still loose thier faith. The church already has enough external forces against it, lets put in every effort to accommodate internally
  16. No body gets away with anything, as God sees all. Some of men's sins are disclosed immediately, while others become exposed later.

    1Ti 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
    1Ti 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
  17. i guess I can give an update:

    Since the original post, I privately discussed it with both parties, and the pastor, and came to the conclusion that it was a personal issue of the parties that left felt distracted them from worshiping in the church. There had been correct ramifications from the leadership and fences have been mend, Thanks for the advice guys!
    Holycaves likes this.
  18. I agree pray about it and wait in the Lord.
    If you do feel you need to know, then ask the families that left and find out their reasons.
    It may not be anything wrong in the leadership and they just had their toes stepped on and did nolike it.

    You have got to realize that time is running out for the devil or enemy and he knows it. He is going to try and break up churches and families for he comes to kill, steel and destroy and he has always been doing his best to cause churches to split and fall apart and now in this day and age, well be prepared and be ready.
    Have a blessed week
  19. I have a hard time trusting church leadership because I went to Mars Hill, Mark Driscoll's church. :( I understand wanting to know what is going on and I'm glad it was resolved. For me, it's difficult to find another place and I haven't yet.

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