Salvation is Relocation

Alive2

Alive2

Salvation is relocation. From one place to another place.
In much the same way as God put Noah and his family into the ark and the same way that God relocated Abraham and Lot from Sodom.
Relocated. Salvation is relocation. Another great illustration is when the sons of Abraham were told to stay inside their houses and place blood on the door posts.
So we can see through these real time events that God is showing us that salvation is being in the right place according to His will and Plan.
We were moved by God from out of the First Adam into Christ, who is the Second Adam. He quite literally relocated us from one place to another.
Let’s pause here for just a moment and look at the mechanics of this particular relocation and draw for a moment a distinction.
In the case of the events of Noah, Egypt and Sodom—the participants were required by God to simply obey and get out of Dodge, so to speak. Nevertheless these are example for us of a relocation in order to be saved. Saved from a judgement.
Pretty cool, huh?
Ok so let’s look at the relocation that God had in mind that these things and others pointed to. The main problem. Adam’s race of men had fallen and every member of Adam’s race are also fallen. They all each one have a sinful nature. It is inherited. Passed on from one generation to another. Adam cannot be something besides Adam.
His nature is sin, just like his father, Lucifer. Adam is stuck. Just like a bear can only be a bear—as much as he may want to be an eagle—he cannot. He was born a bear and he has no power to ‘be’ anything else. He is a bear and will remain a bear from his first day until his last day.
The same with Adam. He has no power to change his nature. He may very much want to be something different. He may try with all of his might, but Adam he will remain.
Adam has a sinful nature and this just won’t do. God can’t abide sin and that sin separates Adam from God. But God very much desired from the beginning and now to have a close fellowship with man. With Adam.
So we see here that there is a problem of location. Every man is born ‘in Adam the first’. And Adam the first has a fallen and sinful nature.
God will not be denied and He had a Plan to fix this situation.
The Father sent His Son to become the Second Adam. A sinless Second Adam that satisfied all of God’s requirement of righteousness. God Himself relocated those that are ‘born again from above’ ‘into Christ’.
Can we all agree on this. At this moment we became a ‘New Creation’. A member of the ’Second Adam’.
We were given a New Nature. A Divine Nature. We (the old Adam nature) died and were raised in Newness of Life.
Just like the bear, we had no means or power to relocateourselves. God did this for us in a very real way.
1Cor. 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus,
John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
These verses and many more, not to mention our common sense, show us that this did not happen by either being naturally born via blood being passed on from our earthly mother and father or by our will—but rather by the will of God. He did this for us because we had no way of doing it ourselves. He took us out of the old Adam and relocated us to the New Adam. Into Christ. A supernatural and very real relocation by God Himself!
2Cor. 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Is there then any doubt that the Father relocated us? We certainly couldn’t manage this on our own—right? So let’s look at what happened to us when the Father relocated us ‘into Christ’. The first thing that happened is when Christ died on the cross, so did we. We didn’t suffer on the cross. He took care of all of that—but we died.
Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;

Yes—this is the first thing that happened to us. Pretty cool, huh? What is the next thing that happened? Yup—were were raised with Him,, because the Father put us ‘into Him’.
Eph. 2:6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Col. 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, whoraised Him from the dead.
Col. 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
So then we were raised from the dead ‘In Him’. We died in Him and were raised in Him. Now check out that second part of Eph. 2:6 above. Wait. I will put it here.0
and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
So we died, we were raised from the dead and we were also made to sit in the heavenly places. All of this is because we are ‘in Him of the Father. Where Christ goes/went, we went. The scriptures very plainly explain these things to us.
I like the illustration of placing a note into a book and mailing that book here and there. Everything the book experiences the note experiences. The history of the book, is the history of the note.
We were placed 'IN CHRIST' by the Father...like the note in the book. We died in Him on the Cross, were buried, we rose and we ascended. This is history. It happened as ordained by our Father.
Why did the Father do this? Why did the Father relocate us from the first Adam into His Son the Second Adam?
Because of that fallen nature. That sinful nature. It just wouldn’t do. Adam has to die. This is why we needed to be ‘born again’ Born as from above. Miraculously, supernaturally changed from one thing to another. Relocated. The bear got changed into an eagle. Only God can do such things. God Himself relocated us from the old man into the New man. That happened instantaneously! Did you or I have any power, ability or technology to do this?

More later…..Let’s think about these things for a while.
 
(Eph 2:2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(Eph 2:3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
(Eph 2:4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(Eph 2:5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
(Eph 2:6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
 
Alive2 said:
In the sense of the fundamental change that took place in Adam due to sin. And he and his progeny were transferred to the kingdom of darkness, which Christ solved.
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A fundamental change in Adam was due to HIS choice to disobey God (His Creator and Father). That does not make Lucifer his father.

It makes him his "tempter". When tempted, Adam sinned which made him the original SINNER which was imputed to all of humanity.

IF.....IF Lucifer was Adams father in reality, we then would have a massive problem as the physical line of the Messiah is traced back to Adam. IF lucifer is Adams father then the line of Jesus would be tainted by demonic influence.

If Lucifer was Adams Father.......then Adam was "born" not created.

Adam would be the 1st born and 1st father and the 1st sinner. Jesus was incarnated to fix what Adam broke which came from Lucifer (Satan).

Then if Lucifer was Adams father, Cain and Abel and Seth would be half demons. Do you really want to go down that path???
 
Major said:
A fundamental change in Adam was due to HIS choice to disobey God (His Creator and Father). That does not make Lucifer his father.

It makes him his "tempter". When tempted, Adam sinned which made him the original SINNER which was imputed to all of humanity.

IF.....IF Lucifer was Adams father in reality, we then would have a massive problem as the physical line of the Messiah is traced back to Adam. IF lucifer is Adams father then the line of Jesus would be tainted by demonic influence.

If Lucifer was Adams Father.......then Adam was "born" not created.

Adam would be the 1st born and 1st father and the 1st sinner. Jesus was incarnated to fix what Adam broke which came from Lucifer (Satan).

Then if Lucifer was Adams father, Cain and Abel and Seth would be half demons. Do you really want to go down that path???
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I do not feel the need to be dogmatic on this point as it pales alongside the truths of Adam's fall and its result.
I would however offer this for some consideration---Jesus was born through the birth canal of a woman and Adam was not Jesus father. Jesus was not born as an improved Adam the First, but as Adam the Second--a brand new man.
 
Alive2 said:
“For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,”

(Colossians 1:13 NAS95)


Relocation
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Agreed. We who are in Christ Jesus have gone from death to life. From darkness to light. We are saved from the power of sin and the works of Satan.
 
OK brethren, let’s continue on and if the Lord blesses, to look further into the glorious things of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.

We have established that God the Father Himself relocated us ‘into His Son’, the Second Man and thus made us to be ‘born again’. Just like He discussed with Nicodemus that day. Let’s pause for a moment and look at some things the Lord said to Nicodemus.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, “You must be born again.’8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The Lord said said clearly, we needed to be born again, but He also provides additional proof that this is something that only the Father could do. Flesh is flesh and Spirit is spirit and when the Spirit based ‘birth’ happens, it can’t be seen. It happens in and from a different realm. The realm of the miraculous. God’s realm.

Ok—let’s look at the only requirement as a requisite for this miracle of birth to occur. We are going to talk about faith and grace. Why? That is a very good question my friends and at the risk of being too mechanical, let’s look at that. The following is a scripture that defines ‘faith’ for us.

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That word substance as it is translated is very good. Faith is the thing that makes something unseen ‘real’. It brings the promise of a thing, in this case, from the invisible and unreachable into experience in this visible realm. God ordained this ‘faith’ thing to be the means by which we enjoy His Promise.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

But the thing is—this is no ordinary faith. This is a special ’saving’ faith. How does this happen? How do we acquire this special kind of faith? Is it simply a mental assent or an agreement to a story we heard, where we might say, “hey, that sounds good to me”? Remember we are talking about invisible things and something the world thinks is foolish. Or perhaps something that you grew up with and took for granted?

NO! It is not those things. There is a specific moment in time when the Father Himself gave you a gift. In a moment—in a flash of time—He put that faith in your heart and opened your eyes. In that very moment, you were ‘born again’. He relocated you ‘into Christ’ and all that we discussed earlier became a reality for you. Once again, you could not, with all of your will and strength, have generated this kind of faith. You were a member of Adam’s fallen race before then. God had to step in. This my friends is ‘Grace’ unmerited favor extended to you through the love of your Father and Christ Jesus your Savior. Look at this verse.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

So we have seen that it is all God! His solution, His gift of faith by His Grace to you—because He loved you first.

Not by your will, not by the flesh—but by supernatural means. By God Himself intervening and interrupting your life on this earth.



More later...this is gonna be amazing! How two things can be so--at the same time.
 
OK—brethren, let’s look a little further into these things and hope and pray that the Lord will bless us with understanding and give glory to Himself.

Let’s look at some differences this ‘relocation’ ‘into Christ’ makes from both God’s point of view and what should be our point of view as new born son’s of God. There is more to this than can be put into many books, but perhaps the Lord will help us to see some of it.

1Cor. 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—andrighteousness and sanctification and redemption—

2Cor. 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

These two verses are a sample of the many times the Bible teaches us this very important lesson. Because we are in Christ ‘of’ the Father we have been provided the perfect and complete ‘righteousness’ of Christ. When the Father looks at each of us, He sees that righteousness. Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us. God reckons this to be true. He accounts this to be a reality. Perhaps we can return to this word reckon later, but realize that God the Father ‘reckons’ that Christ’s righteousness is now ours. There are no strings attached to this. It was God’s will to make it so.

Let’s look at the importance of blood and cleansing. The blood of Christ that He shed on the cross. We know that the Lord taught us through Moses the importance of blood as an agent for the covering and cleansing of sin. The sacrifices made by the priests of the many animals were always done for the benefit of God’s people. There is a great deal to learn there, but for now let’s just say that those things were types and examples that point us to the great and final sacrifice of the Son of God.

The Father sees us as ‘Righteous’ because of Christ, but there is also the matter of sin. The sins we commit while still in these earthly bodies and with these minds that are not fully renewed. We all sin—we all fall short. God made provision for this with the blood of the cross.

Remember that from His point of view, we have the ‘righteousness’ of Christ and by faith and understanding imparted by the Holy Spirit, we are given to have the same ‘point of view’. This point of view, the Father very much wants us to have—just as He does.

And in the same way, he wants us to share the same point of view as it regards the ‘Blood’.

This is our Father’s point of view.

Is. 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”

Says the LORD,

“Though your sins are like scarlet,

They shall be as white as snow;

Though they are red like crimson,

They shall be as wool.

Is. 43:25 “I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake;

And I will not remember your sins.

Matt. 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Eph. 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Rev. 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

These scripture verses and a great many more explain to us in exacting detail what is God’s point of view regarding the blood and sins. He wants us to have the same point of view. He went to a lot of effort to make sure that we have the opportunity to see this as He does. To make an accounting in the same way. In God’s ledger, the blood of Christ atones for our sins. It is an accounting just as an earthly accounting keeps monetary books with numbers that make at the bottom a conclusion. 6+1=7-7=0

In the same way Christ paid for our sins. He paid the price in our stead on the cross. He paid the price of judgement for us and God the Father accepts this and reckons the benefit as ours. The blood of Christ the Lamb of God cleanses us from all sin! This is God’s point of view. Our Heavenly Father has chosen to not even remember them. They are washed away by the blood. Cleansed!

Let’s pray for one another that we have the same point of view that our Father does. We must understand that these things are a free gift. It was and is the will of our Father in heaven. God Almighty sent His Son to purchase us. To buy us back from where we were and to present us to Himself as 'sinless'. Not that we are without sin, but that those sins are not reckoned against us. This is a Gift of God. Grace and Mercy--when we deserved neither. There is nothing more true in this universe and any other. The blood of Christ is perfectly and completely efficacious (functional) in the intended purpose. Not partly or not temporarily.

Eph. 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Praise the Lord God Almighty and for His Grace and Mercy toward us.



Ok for now—we will continue later with some additional points as the Lord wills.
 
Hello friends and fellows ‘In Christ’.

Let's look a bit at how two things can be true at the same time. We are 'In Christ' in heaven and also walking around on the earth.

Let’s look at a tree. Trees are very cool creations. They can teach us things. A tree has its roots in the ground where it draws both water and sustenance. As it takes in that water and nutrients, it grows. When it develops branches and leaves a process called photosynthesis takes place. This process God created. Green leaves take in light and transform it into chemical energy that it in turn converts water, carbon dioxide and minerals into energy rich organic compounds that feed the tree. This is a simple explanation that suits our purposes.

As the tree is growing it is always and ever reaching its branches toward the light for its welfare.

The tree is much like we are as we seek the Light of our God and Savior, but consider this.

Consider that we are the tree and God ripped us up out of the earth. Relocated. He took us by the roots and turned us upside down and stuck our roots into the ‘heavenly place’; so that now instead deriving our sustenance from the earth, we instead draw our sustenance from the heavenly realm where heavenly things are. Quite a contrast from this old earth. The natural has been replaced by the supernatural. Death has been exchanged for Life. Remember, we are ‘In Christ of God’. Jesus said, if you eat of this bread and drink of this water, you will never hunger or thirst.

John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 6:35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

But here is the thing to also picture and consider.

The branches of the tree are still in this realm. The roots in heaven and the branches dancing in this earthly realm where there are things like wind and rain and heat and dust.

We draw our Life from Christ and indeed our Life is Christ because we have been born again and our life is hidden in Christ with God.

Col. 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us withevery spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

So we see that God has provided us with everything that we need as a result of being In Him.

And yet we still also exist while in these earthly bodies in this earthly realm. On the earth and subject to many various things here on earth as a result. We are in heaven and we are here…for the time being. However, we are no longer strictly children OF this earth.

Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

2Cor. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.

While we are still here before the Lord takes us to be with him we are to have a mind that seeks the things above rather than the things below. In a practical way, we are bound to many earthly things—but our focus is ultimately and continually on Him

Col. 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.

These things inform us much about what it means to be a son of God in this Church Age. These things that the scriptures talk about are very real. It is not a fairy tale. These things speak about and describe realities. We are incredibly blessed. These are things that angels long to look into. They are amazed at what God has done in and for us. Let’s think about these things as Paul instructed and be amazed. Let us thank God and strive to love Him with all of our hearts always givng thanks and praise as we walk about here until He returns to snatch us away and change these old bodies to heavenly and incorruptible ones.

Phil. 3:12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

And until that day, let’s take opportunity to share this good news and the reason for our hope.

1Pet. 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

Maranatha!
 
Alive2 said:
I do not feel the need to be dogmatic on this point as it pales alongside the truths of Adam's fall and its result.
I would however offer this for some consideration---Jesus was born through the birth canal of a woman and Adam was not Jesus father. Jesus was not born as an improved Adam the First, but as Adam the Second--a brand new man.
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I do not agree my friend.

Adam was Created by the Lord Jesus Christ from the clay of the earth.Jesus created Adam so Jesus must then be Adams Father.

Consider Colossians 1:16...........
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him".

Since that is what the Bible declares, that means LITERALLY that Creation, as described in the book of Genesis, took place by the power of Jesus the Son. Since Jesus is God, all of reality is the result of His own power. Creation exists for His glory (John 17:24)

Jesus was Incarnated through a womans body so that He could be 100% man and 100% God. In that way He could die physically but He could not as God remain dead to pay for YOUR and my sin.

Now as for the 2nd Adam..........In 1 Corinthians 15:45-49 Paul points out the difference between two kinds of bodies, the natural and the spiritual. Genesis 2:7 speaks of the first man, Adam, becoming a living person through being Created.
Adam was made from the dust of the ground and given the breath of life from the Lord Jesus. Every human being since that time shares the same characteristics.

However, the last Adam or the “second Adam”—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. Just as Adam was the first of the human race, so Christ is the first of those who will be raised from the dead to eternal life. Because Christ rose from the dead, He is “a life-giving spirit” who entered into a new form of existence. He is the source of the spiritual life that will result in believers' resurrection. Christ’s new glorified human body now suits His new, glorified, spiritual life—just as Adam’s human body was suitable to his natural life. When believers are resurrected, God will give them transformed, eternal bodies suited to eternal life.
 
Alive2 said:
Hello friends and fellows ‘In Christ’.

Let's look a bit at how two things can be true at the same time. We are 'In Christ' in heaven and also walking around on the earth.

Let’s look at a tree. Trees are very cool creations. They can teach us things. A tree has its roots in the ground where it draws both water and sustenance. As it takes in that water and nutrients, it grows. When it develops branches and leaves a process called photosynthesis takes place. This process God created. Green leaves take in light and transform it into chemical energy that it in turn converts water, carbon dioxide and minerals into energy rich organic compounds that feed the tree. This is a simple explanation that suits our purposes.

As the tree is growing it is always and ever reaching its branches toward the light for its welfare.

The tree is much like we are as we seek the Light of our God and Savior, but consider this.

Consider that we are the tree and God ripped us up out of the earth. Relocated. He took us by the roots and turned us upside down and stuck our roots into the ‘heavenly place’; so that now instead deriving our sustenance from the earth, we instead draw our sustenance from the heavenly realm where heavenly things are. Quite a contrast from this old earth. The natural has been replaced by the supernatural. Death has been exchanged for Life. Remember, we are ‘In Christ of God’. Jesus said, if you eat of this bread and drink of this water, you will never hunger or thirst.

John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 6:35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

But here is the thing to also picture and consider.

The branches of the tree are still in this realm. The roots in heaven and the branches dancing in this earthly realm where there are things like wind and rain and heat and dust.

We draw our Life from Christ and indeed our Life is Christ because we have been born again and our life is hidden in Christ with God.

Col. 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us withevery spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

So we see that God has provided us with everything that we need as a result of being In Him.

And yet we still also exist while in these earthly bodies in this earthly realm. On the earth and subject to many various things here on earth as a result. We are in heaven and we are here…for the time being. However, we are no longer strictly children OF this earth.

Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

2Cor. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.

While we are still here before the Lord takes us to be with him we are to have a mind that seeks the things above rather than the things below. In a practical way, we are bound to many earthly things—but our focus is ultimately and continually on Him

Col. 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.

These things inform us much about what it means to be a son of God in this Church Age. These things that the scriptures talk about are very real. It is not a fairy tale. These things speak about and describe realities. We are incredibly blessed. These are things that angels long to look into. They are amazed at what God has done in and for us. Let’s think about these things as Paul instructed and be amazed. Let us thank God and strive to love Him with all of our hearts always givng thanks and praise as we walk about here until He returns to snatch us away and change these old bodies to heavenly and incorruptible ones.

Phil. 3:12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

And until that day, let’s take opportunity to share this good news and the reason for our hope.

1Pet. 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

Maranatha!
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You said........
"We are 'In Christ' in heaven and also walking around on the earth."

Agreed. You have just given the results of POSITIONAL and PRACTICAL sanctification.

POSITIONALLY we as saved men are in heaven right now because of the Lord Jesus.
PRACTICALLY we are still on the earth waiting to die or be Raptured.
 
I did not like that you suggested that Lucifer was Adams father, and that Abraham was relocated from Sodom. In thinking about what you were saying I recall Jesus telling the Pharisees and the Sadducees that they were of their father the devil, referring to their sinful and deceptive natures. I can not find any reference to Abraham being rescued from Sodom, he was in fact negotiating for the city to be spared. Lot was in Sodom and Abraham was concerned for him and his family (Whom GOD did indeed relocate.) Otherwise I agree with what you have said. Welcome to the forum Alive 2.
 
Dave F. said:
I did not like that you suggested that Lucifer was Adams father, and that Abraham was relocated from Sodom. In thinking about what you were saying I recall Jesus telling the Pharisees and the Sadducees that they were of their father the devil, referring to their sinful and deceptive natures. I can not find any reference to Abraham being rescued from Sodom, he was in fact negotiating for the city to be spared. Lot was in Sodom and Abraham was concerned for him and his family (Whom GOD did indeed relocate.) Otherwise I agree with what you have said. Welcome to the forum Alive 2.
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And that is the Christian way to disagree my brother. Good job!
 
Dave F. said:
I did not like that you suggested that Lucifer was Adams father, and that Abraham was relocated from Sodom. In thinking about what you were saying I recall Jesus telling the Pharisees and the Sadducees that they were of their father the devil, referring to their sinful and deceptive natures. I can not find any reference to Abraham being rescued from Sodom, he was in fact negotiating for the city to be spared. Lot was in Sodom and Abraham was concerned for him and his family (Whom GOD did indeed relocate.) Otherwise I agree with what you have said. Welcome to the forum Alive 2.
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Is it not true that the Judgement of God was going to be meted out on Sodom? And that God prevented Abraham being there for the warning of what He intended and told Lot to leave? Having said that, when I wrote this apparently my memory of the scripture was faulty and I thank you for pointing that out.
 
Major said:
I do not agree my friend.

Adam was Created by the Lord Jesus Christ from the clay of the earth.Jesus created Adam so Jesus must then be Adams Father.

Consider Colossians 1:16...........
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him".

Since that is what the Bible declares, that means LITERALLY that Creation, as described in the book of Genesis, took place by the power of Jesus the Son. Since Jesus is God, all of reality is the result of His own power. Creation exists for His glory (John 17:24)

Jesus was Incarnated through a womans body so that He could be 100% man and 100% God. In that way He could die physically but He could not as God remain dead to pay for YOUR and my sin.

Now as for the 2nd Adam..........In 1 Corinthians 15:45-49 Paul points out the difference between two kinds of bodies, the natural and the spiritual. Genesis 2:7 speaks of the first man, Adam, becoming a living person through being Created.
Adam was made from the dust of the ground and given the breath of life from the Lord Jesus. Every human being since that time shares the same characteristics.

However, the last Adam or the “second Adam”—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. Just as Adam was the first of the human race, so Christ is the first of those who will be raised from the dead to eternal life. Because Christ rose from the dead, He is “a life-giving spirit” who entered into a new form of existence. He is the source of the spiritual life that will result in believers' resurrection. Christ’s new glorified human body now suits His new, glorified, spiritual life—just as Adam’s human body was suitable to his natural life. When believers are resurrected, God will give them transformed, eternal bodies suited to eternal life.
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I am not sure how you are using these scriptures and logic to disagree. Let me ask this.
We know that the Word that became flesh Created all things and that no thing that was Created was Created without Him.
Did then the Word Create Lucifer?

Of course Jesus was 100 percent man and God--otherwise, He could not be a substitution for us.
 
Alive2 said:
I am not sure how you are using these scriptures and logic to disagree. Let me ask this.
We know that the Word that became flesh Created all things and that no thing that was Created was Created without Him.
Did then the Word Create Lucifer?

Of course Jesus was 100 percent man and God--otherwise, He could not be a substitution for us.
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You asked me.............
"Did then the Word Create Lucifer?"

YES.

He was created by the Word of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Creator of all things exactly as is described in Colossians 1:16.

Just as recorded in the Bible, The Lord Jesus Christ "Created the world and everything in it" = Acts 17:24; Col. 1:16; Psalms 104:4.
That includes all of the ANGELS. Lucifer was a Created angelic being.

He was created by God. The Bible states three important things about him. ........
1. First, he is a creature;
2. when God created him he was “blameless”;
3. and “wickedness was found in [him]” (Ezek. 28:15,).

The text affirms the goodness of God’s creation (in this case, Lucifer) while recognizing that something awful happened to this creature (“wickedness was found in you”). But Lucifer had what we have........."Freedom of Choice"!

Because of his pride and rebellion He, Lucifer became SATAN, the devil.

Also.........Welcome to the forum!
 
Major said:
You asked me.............
"Did then the Word Create Lucifer?"

YES.

He was created by the Word of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Creator of all things exactly as is described in Colossians 1:16.

Just as recorded in the Bible, The Lord Jesus Christ "Created the world and everything in it" = Acts 17:24; Col. 1:16; Psalms 104:4.
That includes all of the ANGELS. Lucifer was a Created angelic being.

He was created by God. The Bible states three important things about him. ........
1. First, he is a creature;
2. when God created him he was “blameless”;
3. and “wickedness was found in [him]” (Ezek. 28:15,).

The text affirms the goodness of God’s creation (in this case, Lucifer) while recognizing that something awful happened to this creature (“wickedness was found in you”). But Lucifer had what we have........."Freedom of Choice"!

Because of his pride and rebellion He, Lucifer became SATAN, the devil.
Click to expand...
So then---Is Christ Lucifer's father?
 
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