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Revelation 6

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Revelation 6:1:
    And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

    Remember, Christ, the Lamb that was slain, has just taken hold of the scroll and has now opened the first seal. It is also important that these ¨beasts¨ are in the ranking of the hierarchy of the Angels. These are the four that guard the Throne of God, forever, and one has just invited John to approach the Throne to see what is in the scroll.

    Revelation 6:2:
    And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    There are many thoughts put forth that this white horse is the same horse and rider we will find in the nineteenth chapter, I tend to disagree. I know that Jesus is there opening the scroll and I accept that these things are to happen in the future but for this rider, on this white horse, to be Jesus, I would need to forget the truth of the work He did on the cross. His ¨work¨ is finished until He sets foot on the Earth to rule! This rider has gone forth conquering and to conquer. Having attempted to conquer I know for the truth that this is a deadly serious work.

    Revelation 6:3:
    And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

    John appears to have either stepped back or is very involved in watching the events caused by the rider of the first horse and rider and when the LORD had opened the next seal another angelic being had to call his attention back to looking at the scroll. I believe that it is essential to remember that the present, the future and the past are all current in Heaven and to remember that John, alive in the first century s viewing events that will, very likely, occur in the twenty-first century and very soon.

    Revelation 6:4:
    And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

    Anything is possible in Heaven because the power of God is without limit but I have never seen red horse and I do feel that God used these, vividly different horses for, likely, many reasons and the first thing I see is an example of the unlimited spectrum of God. So we see the character on this horse is going forth with a sword, an implement of war and he will bring war to the earth. I´ve seen some that teach the idea that this war, here, is to be a limited war with perhaps twenty or thirty percent of the world, to include, certainly, Israel... I disagree! In the mid-sixties I read a book titled ¨The Haj¨ and it peaked my interest in the Muslim World. Although I was disagreed with by my peers in the military I saw the civilized Nations at war with the Arab Nations and in a religious war with them, I see the events of today going there. It is a World War and we are, in my opinion watching the beginnig of it right now and they are moving in all of the world.

    Revelation 6:5:
    And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

    If we have kept the commandment to study to show ourselves approved I feel that everyone of us know the scripture that assures us that a single meal will cost a full days wages and that is what we see here.

    Revelation 6:6:
    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

    Continuing: This Black Horse represents a terrible dark time. When the disciples walked with Jesus, they learned to walk in the light. Over the span of the centuries the Light we are to walk in has grown darker and darker as we have twisted the words of the writers of the scriptures, giving them the meaning we wish to live with. The scale represents judgment!

    Revelation 6:7:
    And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

    Revelation 6:8:
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    I do not know if I should agree or to disagree but some see this Pale Horse as a very light, almost white, green. Regardless of the exact color of the horse, it had the correct affect on John. Riding this horse is an Angel of Death and he has been given the duty of bringing a living Hell to a fourth part of the world. The time of the Day of the LORD will be a terrible time for a great number, at least 1.5 billion people.

    Revelation 6:9:
    And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    I have been taught, all of my life, that these are the ones, after the Rapture, that took the LORD for their Savior and were killed for it.

    Revelation 6:10:
    And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    Revelation 6:11:
    And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    It appears that we should read the News more often because if we do so, to study, we find examples, even today, of great Church growth. In the 1990s there was a great persecution of Christians. Daily, hundreds of believers were savagely murdered by the Muslims from the north of Sudan. (The simmering war we are experiencing everywhere today) As these were being murdered, the Church there grew by hundreds and thousands a day. (Could this be what will happen during the Great Tribulation?)

    Revelation 6:12:
    And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

    Revelation 6:13:
    And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

    Revelation 6:14:
    And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

    Revelation 6:15:
    And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

    Revelation 6:16:
    And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

    Revelatio 6:17:
    For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    I am certain that I do not ever wish to live through this time, The Day of the LORD. Once there was a very large bond fire and, before it was illegal to do so. There were rubber tires thrown into the fire so that the smoke was a thick black plume. As I watched the fire consume everything I could see the Sun. It was dark red and not inviting at all.

    In these last verses, before the Seventh Seal is opened, we see all the people of the Earth, the live ones, trying to hide from the Omnipotent God. The sky has rolled back as a scroll, the Stars are falling to the Earth and killing everything and people are scared to death, this is a time you do not want to be unsaved.
  2. Bill............I as well understand the rider on the white horse to be the coming Antichrist.

    That is also the position of Scott, Ironside, Chafer, Walvoord,Woodbridge, Pentacost, Green, & MaGee.

    The rider here is an imitation of Christ and he comes speaking worderful things and pretends to be Christ.

    Consider the situation of the world today. WE are moving toward the direction of a world ruler to bring sence to the chaos all around us. All the nations of the world are disturbed.

    Daniel 7:8
    "I considered the horns and behold there came up among them another "little horn " (antichrist) before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots, and behold in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things".

    Revelation 13 is a parallel verse and both describe this "little horn" or beast who is the antichrist.
  3. I tend to agree Major. This past week with this being posted on five forums has caused a good deal of meditation on this point of chapt. 6.
  4. I know you have some serious health issues so let me ask you........Where in the world do you get the energy to do all of that???

    God bless you my friend and keep giving out the Word of God. You are doing a great job!
  5. Well, for a man the VA said would expire last year, I feel good! And, remember, a man without a mission is a dying man so i depend on my LORD for my energy and just as I was fool enough to trust my Training Sergeant, I do believe that through Christ I can do all things.
  6. Copied from the Rev 14 thread; post #10 by Kevin:

    The first scripture to come to mind when reading your post was Heb 8:5 and then I moved away from it because of the general temporary nature of the scenes shown in revelation. However on reflection and prayer I see that the passage does apply. The priesthood was given the things holy, the first fruits, and what was left over were for those not of the priesthood.
    1Pet 2:9 describes the saints as a royal priesthood. The 144,000 are that royal priesthood, and as such are partakers in the holy things 1Cor 9:13 1Cor 10:17 1Cor 10:18. See also Rev 22:14 Rev 22:15
    So I can see the relationship between Aaron and his priesthood with the 144,000.

    I do see a difficulty with relating the instruction to not hurt the oil or wine being a shadow of things heavenly. Although experienced from John's vantage point in heaven, it is concerning an earthly and hence temporal thing and would not be a shadow of the heavenly things. It is interesting that the instruction given in Numbers includes wheat and by implication....barley. In Rev 6:6 the value of these items are being altered, whereas that of wine and oil is protected. The value of the denarius was at those times being devalued by various Roman Emperors but that should have affected the value of all produce including wine and oil......Maybe wine and oil sales were tariff protected? :D
    Well Kevin, seriously, I don't know, but I would like you to share your thoughts on this.
    More to follow on Rev 6 as time permits.
  7. Calvin......................have you considered that since the "black" horse represents a worldwide famine that is to come on the earth, it means that there will be a worldwide war effecting the world.
    Always during and after a war there is a shortage of food stuffs.

    The Greek historian Herodotus, said that a "choenix" (quart) of corn was a soldier's daily supply of food.
    A denarius was a day's wage (Matt. 2:2). Therefore, a working man will be unable to support his family in this coming day.

    Could it then be that the OIL & WINE are luxuries that are enjoyed by the rich? OIL would correspond to our toiletries and beauty aids we use today which are really the luxuries of life. The WINE equals liquer that will be abundant. It seems that there will be a shortage of food, but a lot of wiskey and perfume. If this is the case............
    the rich will continue to get theirs but the poor will NOT get theirs.

    An old saying is that if a man can afford a Cadillac, he does not care what the price of gas is.

    In 1798 the Rev, Thomas Malthus said......."The power of the population is infinitely greater than the power of the earth to produce the subsistence for humanity".
  8. No, I have not!
  9. I would encourage you to just think about it.

    Daniel 9:27
    "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
    But in the middle of the week
    He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
    And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
    Even until the consummation, which is determined,
    Is poured out on the desolate.”

    The pronoun "he" in this verse refers to its nearest antecedent....."the prince that shall come", or the Anti-christ in verse #26. The beginning of Daniel's future 70th week then takes place when the A/C makes a peace treaty with the Jews for a 7 year peroid.

    Here then is the logic.................IF there is a confirmed 7 year peace treaty that can only mean that there was in fact a war taking place that forced the peace agreement. That would then make the literal understanding of Revelation as an explination of HYPER INFLATION which always takes place when a war is fought.

    Because men are involved in war, the crops are left out and when the war ends, people starve because there has been no food production.

    Rev. 6:5-6
    "When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

    Just a thought!
  10. I love beef steak, so I thought I might BBQ a few sacred cows.
    As I see it it is difficult to see where Revelation is going from a certain point of view. I thought "what would happen if we took a readily definable future event and worked backward.
    So I'm game, here goes.
    Rev 6:12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
    I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Nkjv

    If we were unlucky enough to look up at the sky and see that it was rolled up like a scroll, there would be no point in racing back inside the house to fill out tomorrow's 'To Do list'. There would be no tomorrow--Game, Set and Match.
    Heb 12:26 and Haggai 2:6 speak of this event. The writer of Hebrews sees it as I do or I see it as he does, that...well as he puts it this way: Heb 12:27 "Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain." Nkjv

    This does not present a problem for Rev chapters 7 onwards, only for those who think Revelation is laid out in strict chronological order which it mostly might well be but not necessarily always. Back at it:
    V17 observes that the "great day of His wrath has come". Now unless there a several great Days of His wrath
    This one spoken of in v17 is IT! So then the opening of the sixth seal begins the final curtain call for mankind, what might the fifth seal have ushered in?

    This that I have posted is not significantly different from comment made in the opening post of this thread. It is different only perhaps in structure and direction.
  11. I have a question to pose. The book of Revelation clearly describes Jesus coming again on a white horse (Rev. 19:11). The riders which come upon the earth on Rev 6. are sent by God. Why do so many theologians support the belief that the white horse is the antichrist. White represents purity throughout the bible. Surely the first horse which goes out is one of purity - possibly the church or the gospel message? Remember the kingdom of heaven is taken by force so the representation of a white horse ready for battle is not contrary to the rest of scriptures where the gospel is concerned.

    Just a question - one which has been bothering me for a while now.
  12. Kevin thanks for your reply and question. Frankly I don't have an answer at this time. There is mention of four horse dawn chariots in Zech 6:1 but I'm not entirely sure that they are the same thing/event. though properly studied they might have some light to shed on this. It is my hope that we can work backward from the sixth seal to the first seal in the hope that we can all learn from each other. The reason for this is that I am interested in the relationship (if any) between the seven fold revelations as they appear. Seven Letters, Seven seals, Seven trumpets and Seven Bowls. So starting with what to my mind is a clearly and unarguably identifiable event and working backward might help. I hope you and others will be able to contribute thoughts and encouragement as we work our way back to the white horse and it's rider, even if we go no further.

  13. Kevin............the white horse on which the A/C rides in Rev. 6, speaks to his entrance into the world. He will come in PEACE which the color white indicates. When one reads the vers you notice he has a "quill" but no arrows. He is vicious but withjout blood shed or slughter up to this point.

    Read Numbers 24:8....Psalms 45 and Zech. 9:14 for contect and basis.
  14. Than
    Thanks Major, but like a previous discussion regarding the meaning of the word "sea" in Revelation surely the same principle applies here. Continuity in the book of Revelation implies that Jesus is the rider of the white horse. The rise of the man of lawlessness seems to appear later in the chronological order of things with the beast and false prophet?

    God bless
  15. Kevin, I see no difficulty in understanding that the white horse represents purity. As you say white represents purity throughout the Bible. As for the true identity of the rider, what are we told?
    Firstly he* is armed, and then given a crown...not a diadem, but a woven wreath a type of head band. The crown, 'stephanos' in Greek means a wreath made of foliage or designed to resemble foliage and worn by one of high status or held in high esteem. Given that meaning, it seems unlikely that he* was sent on a conquest under armed; a rifle loaded with blanks. a bow without arrows, a spear without a point etc. That would be an insult to one of high status. So, our rider is either one held in high esteem, or one who enjoys an elevated status. It is still not clear who this rider is though.
    When the disciples were pressed to confess their understanding of who Jesus was, Peter correctly identified Jesus as the Christ. Matt 16:16 Matt 16:17 Matt 16:18 Matt 16:19 In Verse 18 we are told that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church which is to be built on faith in Him as the Christ. This prediction that the gates of hell will not prevail agaist the Church suggest that instead the gates of hell will be conquered by it. I prefer to understand the keys representing a recognition of high status, not for Peter, but for the Church.
    Given that the rider is armed for conquest and crowned as a ruler having high status, and goes out conquering and to conquer, it is not reasonable to understand the rider on the white horse as the anti Christ. nor even the Christ. The rider most likely represents the Church...............*Did I say 'He' ?? there is no reason that I am aware of that the rider could not be a 'she', just as the Church is more usually regarded as a 'she'...the bride of Christ.
  16. I suppose we dont really know but we can theorise who or what the rider is. If, for the sake of the argument, the rider is the gospel message then the riders have been released way back in the 1st century AD. We have seen many famines, wars, pestilences etc during the last two thousand years. This is not my position, just a theory. Maybe we are just waiting for the opening of the seventh seal.
  17. Good thought, but consider that "white" also speaks of victory and triumph...a bloodless victory for the moment.

    Rev. 6:1-2a
    "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals and I heard as it were the noise of thunder one of the four beasts saying come and see. And I saw and behold a white horse and he that sat on him had a bow................."

    Of course anything is possible with the Lord, BUT..........do you find it inconsistant that it is the Lord Jesus who is "opening" the first seal of judgment and now he has to make a quick change of position, mount a horse and then coming riding forth. IMO that is inconsistant and not believable because of the context.

    NOW...........lets look at verse # 3 & 4 ......
    "And when He had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, come and see, And there went out another horse that was red and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth and that they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword".

    To me, ME, that means the 1st horseman in white could NOT be Christ because when He brings peace to this earth, it is going to be a permanent peace. This in view in chapter 6 is a short lived peace.

    Immediately after the white horse went out, here comes the red horse of WAR. The peace that the white horse brought only lasted temporarily and was in fact then counterfeit. The A/C presents himself as a ruler who brings peace to the world but he can not back it up for it is God who says in .......................

    Isaiah 57:21
    "There is no peace, saith my God to the wicked. "

    There has never in the history of humanity been a peace that was kept. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can put an end to war, diease and death because He finally deals with the sin of the world at Armageddon. Then there will be peace for 1000 years.

    May the Lord bless you!
  18. Another consideration could be that of two players here, the White horse is a conveyance while the rider is is the one who is conveyed. Of the two most probable contenders, the Church and the gospel, which conveys which? The Church rides on the Gospel, while the Gospel carries the Church.
    As for wars and strife over the last two thousand years, Jesus taught; Matt 24:6 Matt 24:7 Matt 24:8

    One thing that we should consider is the actual scroll that has the seven seals. It has writing on both sides suggesting that it contains very detailed information about the events (and periods if any) between each of the seals. It may well be that the first seal uncovers the history of the Church age. If this is the case, then the other seal disclosures most likely run concurrent with it, or else within the first seal disclosure is the second coming, freeing up the other seals to disclose those events that occur after Christ's return. But that seems most unlikely, so I believe a better understanding would be that the first seal disclosure reveals the whole of the Church history period but is concerned only with the work of the white horse and its rider.
  19. I have been thinking about this topic.

    The red horse represents war, the black horse represents famine, the pale horse represents disease and death. All three of these horses represent a judgement or an event all linked to each other. If the white horse represented a person then it would be inconsistent with the rest of the horses. It should represent a judgement - which in this case is to conquer.
  20. That my friend is exactly the conclusion of Dr. Charles Hinson in his Commentary on the Bible states. I can not argue with it nor would I do so. I was blessed to sit under him at Liberty and he is a wonderful Bible scolar, and he may be correct.

    I just as everyone else have my own thoughts and when I consider Matt.24:5..............."Many will come in my name saying I am the Christ and shall deceive many".........
    It says to me that the A/C and False Prophet will come upon this distrought world with their humanistic tricks and deceive the world.

    Here I think we need to note something that may go to answer Mistmanns's comments that the 4 riders are the Four Spirit's of God. We should carefully note that the Lamb must open the seals and it is his servants, the four living creatures from God's throne, who beckon the riders and their horses to, "Come!" IF they were the riders...would they "beckon the riders to "COME".???? (6:1, 3, 5, 7).
    Now IMO that pretty much rules them out as the actual riders themselves, but that is just me. This implies that it is God who is Lord of history and man's activities.

    The fact is..........no one knows when it comes to eschotology and all we can do is put together the best information we can get from the total of the Word.

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