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Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by David Ward Jr, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. I just wanted to share some things I've found while studying and see where the conversation leads us.

    1 Corinthians 15:34 "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."

    Upon reading the previous verse, I would take it to mean the following: We need a proper KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God in order to awake to a right standing with God and quit the sin business.

    Then I ask myself, "HOW do I get this KNOWLEDGE; or HOW do I BEGIN in this KNOWLEDGE of God?"

    Proverbs 1:7 "The FEAR of the Lord is the BEGINNING OF KNOWLEDGE: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

    So, the FEAR of the Lord is the BEGINNING of knowledge! Hmmmmm!

    Then I ask myself, "What does it mean to FEAR the Lord?" I've found this FEAR is NOT the fear of some vengeful Being standing over us with a sledge hammer, just waiting to punish us for the least infraction against His commands. This FEAR has more to do with REVERENCE, RESPECT and HONOR.

    Then I ask myself, "HOW do I FEAR the Lord?"

    Proverbs 8:13 "The FEAR of the Lord is to HATE EVIL: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate."

    So, as I understand it:

    1) We CAN AWAKE to righteousness and QUIT the sin business IF we have a proper KNOWLEDGE of God and His Word (1 Cor. 15:34).
    2) We BEGIN in a proper KNOWLEDGE of God and His Word by FEARING the Lord and His Word(Prov. 1:7).
    3) The only way we can FEAR (revere; respect; honor) the Lord and His Word is by HATING EVIL (Prov. 8:13).

    Here's another question:

    HOW do we PROVE or DEMONSTRATE to the Lord and others that we HATE EVIL?

    Proverbs 3:7 "BE NOT wise in thine own eyes: FEAR the Lord, and DEPART FROM EVIL."

    In fact, the New Testament tells us, "Bring forth therefore fruits MEET FOR REPENTANCE" (Matt. 3:8).

    We are told to bring forth fruits MEET (TO PROVE) our REPENTANCE! "By their fruits ye shall KNOW them." Proof is required to discourage mere profession of faith and outward show.

    We PROVE we FEAR the Lord by HATING EVIL.


    Now to my original topic, "REPENTANCE DEFINED IN TWO WORDS:"

    What does it mean to REPENT?

    The Greek, metanoia, [translated "repent" in Matt. 3:8; etc...] is a real change of mind and attitude; a change of mind and love.

    IF someone has CHANGED their mind and love for sin, they NO LONGER love sin; THEY HATE SIN!


    In conclusion:

    1. We awake to righteousness and quit the sin business by a proper knowledge of the WAY of TRUTH that gives LIFE.
    2. We begin in a proper knowledge of the WAY of TRUTH that gives LIFE by FEARING God and His Word.
    3. We FEAR God and His Word by HATING EVIL (REPENTING).
    4. We demonstrate or prove we HATE EVIL (have repented) by DEPARTING FROM EVIL.

    We bring forth fruits MEET FOR REPENTANCE or TO PROVE WE HAVE REPENTED - HATE EVIL (Matt. 3:8).

    HOW do we PROVE we HATE EVIL?



    IF we continually keep asking God to forgive us for the same sin over and over again, we might need to ask ourselves if we actually HATE THAT SIN?

    IF we continually commit the same sin (habitual sin) and do not depart from it [all the while claiming to be a christian] we are being "wise in our own eyes." We need to truly "FEAR THE LORD AND DEPART FROM EVIL!" (Proverbs 3:7)

    Becoming a child of God is the most important commitment one can make in life...EVER! I believe there are many who don't know how important it really is. I believe there are many who don't really understand what it means to REPENT.

    When Jesus began His ministry, He would say, "REPENT (HATE EVIL): for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 4:17).

    "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying, REPENT ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 3:1-2).

    "And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that REPENTANCE and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things" (Luke 24:46-48).

    Jesus knew, IF the people did not REPENT (HATE EVIL), they could not FEAR the Lord;

    IF they could not FEAR the Lord, they could not BEGIN in His KNOWLEDGE of the WAY of TRUTH that gives LIFE eternal.

    IF they could not BEGIN in His KNOWLEDGE of the WAY of TRUTH that gives LIFE eternal, they could not AWAKEN to HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and QUIT THE SIN BUSINESS.

    IF they could not AWAKEN to HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and QUIT THE SIN BUSINESS, they could not inherit His kingdom.

    Jesus was the WORD who came in the flesh to give us KNOWLEDGE of HIS WAY of TRUTH that gives LIFE eternal. HE ALONE IS THE WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. NO ONE comes to the Father but by Jesus!

    A WORKING KNOWLEDGE of the WAY of TRUTH that gives LIFE eternal AWAKENS US to righteousness and ENABLES US to QUIT THE SIN BUSINESS!

    IF WE WANT TO QUIT HABITUAL SIN, we need to make up our mind and settle it in our heart to HATE THAT SIN that separates us from God!

    Many seek to enter in, but few who will ever find it!

    Few will ever make up their mind to HATE EVIL!

    We have to resolve to STOP gratifying ourselves at the expense of the best good of others. Our very soul depends on it!

    We must BEGIN gratifying the best good of others at the expense of self.

    That is what it means to DENY SELF.


    PEOPLE SIN TO GRATIFY THEMSELVES! Let's crucify SELF with its affections and lust!

    "For though we walk in the flesh, WE DO NOT WAR AFTER THE FLESH: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the PULLING DOWN of strong holds;) CASTING DOWN imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the KNOWLEDGE of God, and BRINGING INTO CAPTIVITY EVERY THOUGHT TO THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, WHEN YOUR OBEDIENCE IS FULFILLED" (2 Cor. 10:3-6).

    Some say, "Everyone sins everyday in thought, word or deed." The Word's WAY of TRUTH that gives LIFE does not teach us this. His WAY will present us faultless and without spot or blemish before His presence with exceeding joy IF WE HOLD ON TO IT TO THE END! We have been given power to become the sons of the Living God if we have repented! Lets take hold of the power given to us and bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

    We have NOT sinned if a thought comes into our mind to tempt us! We haven't! If we have delight in the thought and entertain the thought, THEN has lust conceived and sin has been committed (James 1:13-16).


    David Ward Jr
  2. You bring up several good subjects. Repentance, sin, walking in the Spirit, the righteousness of God, knowledge of God, etc. etc.

    Sometimes you may find that the harder you try and quit sinning, the more sinning you do.

  3. Sorry you feel that way, Quantrill.

  4. Studying Romans 6:1 through 8:13 should show anyone that sin is the spirit and nature of the devil working in sons and daughters of disobedience. The old relation to the devil by obedience to the law of sin and death, and the new relation to God by obedience to the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, are revealed by five main ideas:

    (1) By being dead to sin and alive to God, by union with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, and manifestation to newness of life: “If we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead to sin is freed from sin… Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once; but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God (Rom. 6:1-10).

    (2) By reckoning the “old man” dead and the “new man” alive: “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace” (Rom. 6:11-14). How could anyone reckon one self dead to something not constantly present to deal with? When a believer becomes dead to sin and alive to God, they no longer live after the flesh and in sin and under the power and dominion of Satan. They will still have to “reckon” themselves dead to sin, and this proves the “old man” or the devil is still present to deal with. He does not have to be inside.

    (3) By master and servant (Rom. 6:15-23). The old relation to sin and freedom from it and the new relation to God and service to Him are illustrated in this portion of Scripture by a servant who is free to serve two masters – sin or righteousness, Satan or God. Paul speaks of the sinner upon reckoning himself dead to sin, as being made free from the old master and now serving a new master. He starts out this section of his argument by asking the question: “Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace”; that is, shall we again yield to the “old man” or the devil after we have been made free from him? The answer is, “God Forbid” (Rom. 6:15). The rest of the passage is self explanatory and expounded under the following headings:

    A. Acts of obedience indicate the master served: “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Rom. 6:16). This applies to saints (Christians) and sinners alike. If a saint (Christian) yields to sin and Satan, they are again a sinner and a servant of sin and the devil as much as they were before the new birth. This passage teaches a servant may be dead to Satan or God, depending on the one they are not serving; but neither one is actually dead because of not being served. If man yields to either the devil or God, they are the servants of the one they serve and they are dead to the one they do not serve.
    B. Change in acts of obedience indicates a change in masters: “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye become the servants of righteousness” (Rom. 6:17,18). If one changes masters from Satan to God, or from God to Satan, the change in acts of obedience indicates such a change and proves which master is being served. The one being served is the master only as long as he is served. The one not served is considered (reckoned) dead by the one doing the service. A person becomes dead to either by rebelling against him and beginning service to the other. No one can serve two masters at one time, but one can serve both masters one at a time (Luke 16:13; John 8:34; 1 John 3:8; 5:1-5, 10-18; Jas. 3:6-13).
    C. The master served indicates the nature of obedience: “For as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity; even so now [since changing masters] yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness” (Rom. 6:19-20). If the “old man” or the devil is in control, and is the master, there is an ever-increasing life of iniquity unto iniquity, and a transformation in life and conduct to the likeness of the devil (John 8:44), but if God is the Master served, there is an ever-increasing life of holiness, and a change from glory to glory in the image of Christ (2 Cor. 3:18).
    D. The nature of obedience indicates the wages received: “What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom. 6:21-23). No saint (Christian) who turns again to serve sin until death will receive the wages of righteousness, nor will any sinner receive the wages of sin who turns from sin to serve righteousness until death.

    (4) By marriage (Rom. 7:1-6). Paul, in this passage, illustrates freedom from sin and the old man, and the new life of service to God by marriage relationship. He starts this argument by stating, “the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth,” and continues by saying, “The woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then, if while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man” (Rom. 7:1-3).

    These facts of remarriage are applied to believers in the following way: “Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” Sin is like the husband. There are no legal grounds of freedom from him until he dies. Sin was crucified with Christ that men might be free from it and be married to God (Rom. 6:6-12). When sin was alive in men, it brought forth fruit unto death; but now since it has been killed, we can be free from it and bring forth fruit unto life (Rom. 7:5-6). Men are free from sin at the new birth (1 John 2:29; 3:8-10; 5:1-5, 18); so the experience mentioned above must take place at that time. The problem is many still want to be married to sin. They do not wish to truly change their attitude and love for their first husband (sin).

    (5) By Paul’s own experience (Rom. 7:7-8:13). Paul in this section of Romans gives his own experience of being bound to the law of sin and death, and his deliverance from it to prove his past arguments that sin is something separate from man himself, which dominates man and makes man transgress the law of God. The main points in this passage are the following:
    a. By the law is the knowledge of sin (Rom. 7:7).
    b. Sin itself is the thing in me that is sinful, working in me all evil desires, and asserts its mastership and refuses to permit me to obey the law of God as I desire (Rom. 7:7, 8).
    c. Sin itself is the thing in me that rebels against the law and makes me break it, so that the death penalty of the broken law can be carried out to kill me (Rom. 7:9).
    d. The law of God was ordained to be life to me; but sin in me which had control of me before the law came, would not let me obey the law, thus cutting me off from the life that I would have gotten if I could have obeyed the law. I was forced by sin to obey it rather than the law, and this brought me the curse of the broken law (Rom. 7:10; Gal. 3:10).
    e. Sin, using the commandment as an occasion to demonstrate its rightful and lawful authority over me, deceived me, and by it slew me (Rom. 7:11). Sin would not let me keep the commandment, but turned me over to receive its penalty for breaking the law. Sin itself betrayed me by taking advantage of my ignorance and helpless state. Instead of being a friend and helping me to obey the law, it made me break the law.
    f. I conclude that the law is holy, but I am a slave to sin (Rom. 7:12).
    g. Sin was more powerful in me than the law (Rom. 7:13, 14). It was just as sinful in me before the law came as afterward, only it was not imputed before the law came. That which was good was not the thing that killed me, but sin (the old man) did it. The commandment merely showed up my sin. The blame is then on sin and not on the holy law (Rom. 7:13-14).
    h. Sin was more powerful than I was (Rom. 7:15-25). I consented to the holy law, but sin would not let me obey it. I never was successful in obeying the law as long as sin (the old man) was in control (Rom. 7:15-20). I was not a willing slave, for inwardly I wanted to do the will of God; but sin would not let me (Rom. 7:21=23). I was a wretched creature, being killed by sin, which would not let me obey the law (Rom. 7:24-25).
    i. I was finally delivered by the law of the Spirit of life, after three days of fasting and prayer (Rom. 8:1-13); Acts 9:8-18; Gal. 5:16-26). The law of the Spirit of life in Christ is more powerful than the law of sin and death that works by the devil, and this is what made me free from sin. Thus it is clear that sin is a fixed principle operated by Satan. It is called the law of sin and death in man’s members and works to bring man to full defeat and eternal Hell. The law of sin and death is annulled by Christ in every believer (Rom. 8:1-13; Gal. 5:16-26; 1 Cor. 6:9-11).

    Quantrill, that passage in Romans 7:21-25 was the only thing even close to your statement, “Sometimes you may find that the harder you try and quit sinning, the more sinning you do.” I respectfully ask for you to give reference of any passage in God’s Word that supports your statement? Your statement is a “commandment (or word) of men” and not the commandment of God.

    I used to be one who would selfishly try to justify a means to continue in the sins that I love while reading God’s Word. I saw only the verses I [and others] used to TRY to justify a means to continue in the sins I loved. I did not want to change my mind and love for sin. I wanted to continue in my love of sin instead of loving God. “He that hath my commandments AND KEEPETH THEM, he it is that loveth me.”

    I would take verses out of context in an effort to give myself a license to continue sinning. For example: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). Paul simply reminded the reader that ALL were guilty before God and deserving of death before he got into how they would be justified through faith in Jesus. We should look at the entire book of Romans as ONE VERSE. Otherwise, it can easily be misunderstood. Let me break it down a little:

    1. In Romans 1:18-32, Paul first declares the entire world guilty before God.
    2. In Romans 2:1, Paul declares man’s ungodliness INEXCUSABLE.
    3. In Romans 2:2-16, Paul declares God’s judgment upon man to be just.
    4. In Romans 2:17-24, Paul gets specific about the Jew being guilty before God.
    5. In Romans 2:25 through 3:2, Paul discussed how circumcision profited the Jew and explained the definition of a real Jew.
    6. In Romans 3:3-20, Paul reemphasizes the whole world guilty before God (Jew and Gentile). He gives reasons why the whole world is guilty before God. He gives the purpose of the Law in verses 19 & 20.
    7. In Romans 3:21-31, Paul declares justification by faith in Christ the only remedy for sin; how man is justified; and justification by faith is the universal remedy for a guilty world.
    8. In Romans 4:1 through 5:11, Paul illustrates how Abraham and David received justification through faith and explains how all are justified through faith in Christ.
    9. In Romans 5:12-14, Paul speaks of inbred sin and death by Adam.
    10. In Romans 5:15-21, Paul gives contrasts between Adam and Christ.
    11. In Romans 6:1-14, Paul gives the divine method of deliverance from sin (salvation).
    12. In Romans 6:15-23, Paul illustrates the old relationship to sin and new relationship to God by master and servant. Paul declares which acts of obedience or disobedience indicate which master is served.
    13. In Romans 7:1-6, Paul illustrates the old relationship to sin and new relationship to God by using marriage as an example.

    I will stop there for now. I only wanted to explain how the book of Romans must be viewed as one long verse to keep it all in context. We cannot pick and choose what verses we like in an effort to justify a means to continue in the sins we love. God’s Word declares we must REPENT (HATE EVIL; CHANGE ATTITUDE AND LOVE FOR SIN) if we are to truly FEAR the Lord and inherit His kingdom.

    “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED {whether sinner or professing Christian): neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9-10). WHO was Paul talking to in this passage? Church goers; professing Christians; “Unto the Church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, CALLED to be saints” (1 Cor. 1:2). God is no respecter of persons. His Word holds true for sinner and professing Christian alike! We may try to twist God’s Word all we want in an effort to justify our continued love for sin. Until we wake up and make up our mind TO TRULY CHANGE, we will continue in a life that ends with, “…Didn’t I do this and this and this in your name? And then will I say to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from me YE THAT WORK INIQUITY!”

    We are faced with two laws which WE decide whom we are servants of: The law of sin and death OR the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. Which law will you obey? The law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ does NOT give us a license to continue in the sins we love. If we obey the law of sin and death, then ourselves is what we love. If we obey the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ, then Jesus Christ is who we love. Whom do you love? I'm sure you've heard, "Actions speak louder than words." Our actions prove who we love; ourselves or God. Jesus chose to love God and the best good of all mankind instead of gratifying Himself at the expense of the best good of all. We too should do the same.
  5. You assume too much. You speak as if those who do not agree with you in some way love sin. Maybe that was and is your experience but thats not true of all.

    You asked for some verses. Well, Romans 7:8 is one. And Rom. 7:10. Also, Rom. 7:17-20 And 1Cor. 15:56.

    May I ask if you still sin?

  6. Now, Now, Quantrill!

    No, Sir! I have not sinned in quite a while! I cannot remember the last time I sinned. When was the last time you sinned, Quantrill?

    Why do you say I assume too much? I do not ASSUME anything. I tell you what I KNOW! "He that hath my commandments, and KEEPETH THEM, he it is that loveth Me." I can give you NUMEROUS scriptures to support this. No scripture in the Bible supports abiding (continuing; remaining) in harmony with sin and inheriting God's kingdom. Not even the ones you provided. To the contrary; "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" (Titus 2:11-12). The only ones to inherit God's kingdom will be those who abide (continue; remain) in harmony with Christ. There are plenty of scriptures to tell who abides in Christ and who does not. I will be happy to provide them if you like.

    What is so hard to understand? Do non-believers call one who claims to be a Christian, while living in sin, a HYPOCRITE? What's the point of converting IF THERE IS NO CONVERSION? Do you know what CONVERSION is? If someone claims to be a Christian while living a life in harmony with sin, they are a hypocrite, plain and simple! The very FACT that you asked me, "May I ask if you still sin?", tells me you believe everyone sins everyday in thought, word or deed. So, HOW IS IT you say I assume too much? THERE WAS NO ASSUMPTION! It is quite clear you believe everyone sins everyday in thought, word or deed. Quite clear it is!

    Remember this: "Be not wise in thine own eyes. Fear the Lord and depart from evil." (Proverbs 3:7).

    The fact that you give verses in an effort to try to support a license to continue in sin proves I did not assume anything. Jesus would NEVER tell us to do something He knew we could not do...NEVER! If Jesus said, "Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." Then He meant "Go and sin nor more!" PERIOD! What is so hard to understand about that? In fact, the sin that so easily besets us is not the sins of the flesh. The sin that so easily besets us is DOUBT! Do you doubt that God means what He says in His Word about living soberly, righteously, and godly, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD?

    If you do not believe God's Word and what it says, you are just as the ones Jesus talked about in Matthew 13:15, which says, "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes THEY have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

    It would be wise to humble one's self and truly see and hear God's Word. I'm not one to make excuses to continue in sin. God does not excuse habitual sin; whether the person be a sinner OR PROFESSING CHRISTIAN. God is no respecter of persons! He means what He says! If He says people (sinner or professing Christian) who do certain things will not inherit His kingdom, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANS! NOTHING AT ALL IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT! What makes it HARD to understand with the heart is a hardened heart. What makes it hard to hear with the ears is a hardened heart. What makes it hard to see with the eyes is a hardened heart. Our hearts will remain hardened if that heart still loves sin. The only way a heart will truly understand, hear is a broken heart. Just like a horse that has been broken. Some people have to be broken down to their lowest of lows before they will ever convert. Many never convert at all. Many seek but few are ever chosen.

    How is it you say, "You speak as if those who do not agree with you in some way love sin," when it is not I who said it, but it is the Lord who said it? I merely quote God's Word. "WHOSOEVER (sinner or professing Christian) abideth (continues; remains) IN (harmony or union with) Him SINNETH NOT: WHOSOEVER (sinner or professing Christian) SINNETH hath not SEEN (understood) Him, neither KNOWN Him" (1 John 3:6). It is not I who condemns you or anyone else. It is God's Word who condemns! God's Word is like a double edged sword. It cuts to the very soul and it hurts the soul! When the soul hears it or sees it, that soul will do one of two things: Harden or be broken! God's Word nor my word is responsible for hardening one's soul if it is hardened. It is that soul's choice alone!


    David Ward Jr

  7. You reference Romans 7:8 & 10, but all it does is say that sin controlled Paul before the Law given to Moses came but it (sin) was inactive. I told you, "The entire book of Romans must be looked at as one verse." Paul spoke of the law being powerless to free him from the law of sin. Only the law of the Spirit could free him from that wretched man he was (Romans 8:1-13). What is so hard to understand about that? It is hard to SEE (understand) only to a heart that is hardened. That passage did not say everyone (sinner or professing Christian) sins everyday in thought, word or deed.


    David Ward Jr
  8. In Romans 7:17-20, Paul was describing how he consented to the Law given to Moses but he could not obey it because sin was his slave master. Did not Paul later in Romans 8:1-13 say, "There is NOW no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who WALK NOT after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH?" In verse 5 of chapter 8 it says, "For they that are after the flesh DO MIND THE THINGS OF THE FLESH; but they that are after the spirit the things of the Spirit." What are you after, Quantrill? "And hereby we do KNOW that we KNOW Him, IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, IS A LIAR, and the truth is not in him. But whoso KEEPETH [not just for a short time] His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are IN (harmony or in union with) Him" (1 John 2:3-5).


    David Ward Jr
  9. Yes, "The sting of death is sin and the strength of sin is the law" (1 Cor. 15:56).


    "But THANKS BE TO GOD, which giveth us THE VICTORY through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 15:57).

    "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye STEDFAST (not wavering) UNMOVEABLE (like a rock; not tossed about like a wave in the sea), ALWAYS ABOUNDING (not slothful) in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is NOT IN VAIN in the Lord" (1 Cor. 15:58).

    I simply continued with the next two verses of your verse you provided for support of something.

    Verse 58 gives us three commands that will bring VICTORY!

    Victory over what?


    What was provided in verse 56? The STING OF DEATH and THE STRENGTH OF SIN!!!!!!!!!

    JESUS has given us victory over THE STRENGTH OF SIN!



    David Ward Jr.

  10. Quantrill,

    It is VERY important that we gather EVERYTHING on a subject before drawing conclusions on that subject!

    God's Word IS in perfect harmony! Nothing is contradicting something else in God's Word! It is forever harmonious! God's Word is easy to understand IF we will take the time to LABOUR in its truths. God's Word is easy to understand IF we will search it out as for hid treasure!

    Only a soul that HATES EVIL will truly SEE (understand) and FEAR the Lord!
    Only a soul that FEARS the Lord will rightly divide the Word that gives KNOWLEDGE of His WAY of TRUTH and LIFE. However, KNOWLEDGE alone puffeth up, but LOVE edifies.


    David Ward Jr
  11. Did you read my first response to yours, which was quite long? It explained Romans chapter 7. Paul's letter to the church in Rome had a plan laid out to explain how all are guilty before God (Jew and Gentile) and helpless to save themselves. That the law given to Moses was powerless to free them from sin. That the law of the spirit through faith in Jesus Christ DOES have power to free from the law of sin.

    Sin no longer has dominion over us; in this life or the next. Paul could not explain all these things in one simple verse. IT TOOK TIME FOR HIM TO BUILD HIS ARGUMENT......THAT'S ALL! We must give him time to build his argument. We cannot pick and choose verses that mention the power of sin in the very middle of an argument, that ends up concluding that sin NO LONGER HAS DOMINION OVER US. Understand? The only way sin has dominion over us is if WE let sin have dominion over us by our own choice as a free moral agent.


    David Ward Jr
  12. You say you know. But I am saying your assuming. You say to me:

    1.) "No Scripture in the Bible supports abiding (continuing, remaining) in harmony with sin and inheiriting God's kingdom. Not even the ones you provided."

    2.) " The fact that you give verses in an effort to try to support a license to continue in sin proves I do not assume anything."

    I never gave the verses I did to support living in 'harmony' with sin. I never gave the verses I did to support a license to continue in sin. You assume and misrepresent me. I gave the verses at your request to support my statement that " Sometimes you may find that the harder you try and quit sinning, the more sinning you do."

    When was the last time I sinned? Proabably just a few minutes ago. And thats just the ones I know of. But, 'doubt' has not been one. I do not doubt God or His Word. I may doubt what your saying God says, but I do not doubt God.

    We are sinners. In our walk with the Lord we are sinners. Even though we are in a ideal relationship with the Lord, we are sinners. If I turn away from God, say to Him, Im tierd of this and Im going to live like the world does, then we are living in a lifestyle of sin. Just because I recognize I am a sinner even in my best walk with God, doesn't mean I am giving a license to sin. It just means I recognize the truth of what we are.

  13. What it says is that when Paul tried to walk according to the Law sin revived in him. The Law literally gave life to his sin.

  14. What am I after? To walk in the Spirit.

  15. But what it says is the strength of sin is the law. So, if you want to strengthen sin in your life, just go ahead and try to walk and please God by the law.

  16. I scanned over it. I certainly didn't read it all. As you say, it was long.

    But, in glancing over what you wrote I was looking for 'grace'. And I didn't see any. Perhaps I missed it as it was quite wordy. I saw much about 'keeping' and 'doing' and 'commandments' and 'law'.

  17. Quantrill,

    Your scripture references did not even support that what you intended UNLESS you are talking about from a sinner's point of view. A true Christian would not see it that way.

    In YOUR walk with the Lord you say YOU are a sinner. The Lord says, "And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith I know Him and keepeth not his commandments IS A LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But whoso KEEPETH HIS WORD, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are IN (harmony or union with) Him. HE THAT SAITH he abideth (continues: remains) IN (harmony or union with) Him OUGHT HIMSELF ALSO SO TO WALK, EVEN AS HE WALKED" (1 John 2:3-6).

    So, tell me, did Jesus walk in sin? Certainly not! Neither should you!
  19. Quantrill,

    AGAIN, have you heard, "Actions speak louder than words?"

    You do not have to "say" that to Him. If your ACTIONS (what you do or do not do) is out of line with His Word, then YOU ARE LIVING IN A LIFESTYLE OF SIN EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY PROFESS TO BE A CHRISTIAN OR NOT!

    IF you do proclaim to be a Christian, WHILE LIVING IN SIN, YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE PLAN AND SIMPLE!

  20. Yes, of a truth, you are a sinner if you are living in sin!

    You ARE a hypocrite if you say, "I'm a Christian," WHILE LIVING IN SIN! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

    Your commandments of men gives you a license to sin, but the commandments of God do NOT give you a license to continue in sin! PERIOD!

    IF YOU CONTINUE (abide; remain) IN (harmony or union with) SIN, you are NOT abiding IN CHRIST! PERIOD! You are a HYPOCRITE IF you say you abide in Christ while continuing in sin.

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