New theology

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Kevin, Jul 31, 2008.

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  1. New theology

    I have recently come across an interesting subject.

    The bible tells us that as the end harvest approaches that evil will increase upon the earth. I think we can all witness to this.

    There are new theologies which now apparently appose this teaching.

    They are called 'Manifest Sons of God' or 'Kingdom now' theologies. Does anybody have any information on these theologies as I am struggling to find reliable resources.
  2. not me this is the first time I have heared of them.
  3. I do not know about those guys but I can say this- we must simply rely on the Holy Spirit. Many things locked away until the end times are opening up. Some of these are from God some are not. It is important to here from Him lest we unhappily find ourselves in opposition to His plan.
  4. From a quick glance the two are at the very least controversial.
  5. This is not a new theology, but one that is drawn from the New Testament, although, as with so many things in the Church, some who promote it today have taken it to extreme and unbiblical conclusions. Basically, it says that Jesus Christ is not just Saviour, Healer, and Helper, but King of Kings, and that His people are meant to be like Him not only in character but in the manifestation of His power and authority. You can find an article about it on our ministry web site at GTKMI - International Apostolic Christian Ministry - Is This Kingdom Now Theology?


  6. Interesting. I enjoyed reading that, thanks.

    Now you got me thinking, so here'r my thoughts so far -

    The way I see the Kingdom, is that no flesh is part of the Kingdom. It's all spiritual. If the spiritual realm is what's real, then I don't think any of this physical creation is actually in the Kingdom. Those who are saved are spiritually seated in heavenly places. Their spirit is in the Kingdom, because they've been adopted and placed there by God. My view is that also in the Kingdom is all that is of God. Including everything good about even the worst people. Anything not of God is in the Kingdom of Satan. Physically, we're mixed up a bunch of each, but what makes us in the Kingdom of God or not is whether or not we're adopted and truly His children. The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Satan are absolutely separated spiritually - physical creation is like an actual space between each, not really residing anywhere in either Kingdom. It's here that our physical selves take from the Kingdom of our choice and use the spiritual things of it to affect this spiritually physical world. The physical affects are just what we see most clearly, it's our environment for now. The Kingdom of God then forms us and there are physical changes, but the way I see it, the physical changes are only the advancing of the Kingdom of God by spiritual things they cause/bring. These physical changes are good and all, but remain separated from the actual Kingdoms and melt away in the end.

    The physical is just here now because it's how we see and interact and what not. It's our environment, but not where our spirits actually reside. In my view spirits and anything spiritual is not in the physical world, nothing spiritual is part of it. You just have us in heaven with God, Others in Satan's Kingdom with him by 'default', and the physical is just our temporary, clouded view of both of these Kingdoms, where we have our only opportunities in all eternity to call people over here to God's Kingdom before the pathway melts away - the ultimate opportunity going with it. So I think literally, the Kingdoms are always separated, it's just God and not God - just the creation is the temporary ability to view both, and opportunity to choose, to show others these Kingdoms...etc. If there is no time in heaven, then it's only logical to say that ANYONE who is/ ends up saved, time aside - their spirit is in God's Kingdom, and anyone who is not, theirs is in Satan's. We just don't know it, but it is written. I wouldn't say people go from one Kingdom to the other, you know what I mean? We have to deal with time now, and it's how the spirits who end up in heaven come to be so, but my view is there's no transfers - nothing of God's ever being out of the Kingdom and nothing not of Him ever being in. If you consider the Kingdoms, then it's BEEN DONE. Time being only part of creation. Our opportunity. If we're in Christ, we've been in heaven for eternity right? God doesn't change. His son is eternal. We're of Him. Nothing has changed, we're just for a blink - in the created place where we get to decide. So I guess everything always was and always has been, this creation just blinds us and boggles our mind with the silly idea of time. ;p As long as we're in time, though, we gotta do what we gotta do. And trying to understand how the Kingdoms collide is silly and probably impossible since we can't apply time to God and His Kingdom. And it's done by God's hand, we just gotta yield to Him to reveal the Kingdom as much as possible and get people realizing the limited time offer. We need to get the good stuff and flaunt it in Jesus' name, not confuse people with doctrine. No offense, but I think we just blow hot air when we try to apply time to the eternal things and make theories of it. Let's apply time to what we perceive the eternal things as - for we are not seeing them for what they are - so that theories and ideas are then relevant to our physical selves. No offense meant, I don't know much about some of the bigger pictures painted by the bible, I just have a feeling some people put their physical heads into eternity where they don't work and progress is an illusion.

    I think some people ponder the eternal things, only to paint a picture that isn't reality, then it's applied to their way of thinking and how they think things get done, and they're unproductive for God's Kingdom because they're basing their efforts on a false image of what their work is going towards.
  7. Mark, that kind of thinking comes more from eastern philosophies than it does from the Word of God. We are not just spirits somehow trapped in a material universe - God created us as spirit, soul and body, and our body is as much part of us as our spirit or soul. That's why Jesus came "in the flesh" - as a real, flesh-and-blood person, so that He could redeem real, flesh-and-blood people. Certainly God's kingdom is spiritual, but throughout the Bible the spiritual always invades the natural. It never allows us to compartmentalize our lives so that the spiritual part is in God's kingdom and the natural part is somewhere else.

    You say, "I wouldn't say people go from one Kingdom to the other", but the Bible says "He has delivered us from the dominion (that's another word for kingdom) of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son" (Colossians 1.13.)

    You also say, "If we're in Christ, we've been in heaven for eternity right?" Well, actually, no. We are not eternal - only God is. He allows us to somehow step into eternity when we get saved, but that does not make us eternal.

    God created this world to be part of His kingdom - to be under His rule. Man's rebellion brought this world under the rule of satan instead - into his kingdom. Jesus' death legally took back that rule, but He left it to us - His Body - to enforce that victory. Sadly, we have largely defaulted on that task, and so this world is still under the rule of satan.

    Jesus taught us to pray, "Your kingdom come" - and throughout the Bible it makes it clear that we are when we pray we must be prepared to be part of the answer. I wonder how many Christians pray "The Lord's Prayer" on a regular basis without it ever occurring to them that they are meant to be part of establishing the kingdom of God in this world.

    Mark, I'm a little concerned from your post here and several others that I have read that you don't seem to have actually read very much of the Bible for yourself. Could I suggest you make it a priority? His Word is like spiritual food for us, we really need it to live and grow in Him. Get a version with which you feel comfortable, set time aside each day, and start at the beginning and work your way through to the end. When you finish, start again. Keep doing it for the rest of your life.


  8. I don't think you understand just what I meant in my post. The Physical is connected to the spiritual, but how can we know the relationship between the two and how can we apply time to the timeless things?

    "You say, "I wouldn't say people go from one Kingdom to the other", but the Bible says "He has delivered us from the dominion (that's another word for kingdom) of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son" (Colossians 1.13.)"

    Thy Kingdom come meaning it manifest on the earth. Things of God. I'll give you that - that people somehow are brought into the Kingdom within time as well. In my view I'm not saying things are separate as I think you suppose, but just viewing creation as soon to be stripped away, it's the physical representation of the spiritual... but how can anyone comprehend the relationship between creation and the eternal... We're just taking two different guesses at how to look at where creation is and how it relates to the eternal if you ask me. How do we know when to apply what to what?... Time or eternity to these things as we think about their relationship.... Wouldn't we have to know both? Isn't that impossible?

    My thoughts of it in fact don't disagree with anything on the linked site, it just suggests looking at it in a different way.

    I do realize I'm sort of 'challenging' you with a lack of knowledge of the bible...
  9. I am currently doing research into these theologies, and like Bo has already stated they are very controversial.

    The reason they are very controversial is because they have already infiltrated the pentecostal and charasmatic churches and many people actually adhere to them in some way without even knowing it.

    I came across them in my theological studies recently as most of the ideas or doctrines are extra biblical in nature. Are they correct? I dont know that is why I am trying to get some good research material on them. Most of the web sites I have visited are very controversial and very one sided.

    They use terms like Joels army, pleading the blood, millenium force, slain in the spirit, gold dust, Jezebel spirits, Ahab spirits and Goliath spirits etc. See why they are controversial. These are terms regularly used in the church but never mentioned in scripture.

    If I had to mention some of the names associated with these new theologies, this thread would be locked immediately due to the controversial nature of most of these ministries.

    So I will leave it here for now until I have done as much research as I can.
  10. The name Kevin does not appear in scripture but here I am using it. I drive a car to church that is not biblical. We have Sunday School- nope not biblical. My friends church plays an organ not biblical. I cannot find pews in the bible anyway. The order of church services- you guessed it- not in the bible. The lack of power and reliance many churches have on tradition- yep not biblical.
    What most people may not realize is that the early churches not only had different doctrines they also had different cannon or scriptures they held sacred.
    We must be careful not to swallow a camel while we strain at a gnat. Let every man be judged of his own Master.
  11. If I may also interject- the doctrines of Christ and His Church were new and radical and many religious people could not accept them. Let the Holy Spirit give us discernment that we do not miss a move of God.
  12. Like I said Bo, I dont know if these theologies are correct or not, that is the exact reason why I am researching them. The things you stated above rarely influence belief about Jesus Christ. I am sure the early church people had names, they rode to church in chariots or on horse back, I am sure they played musical instruments when they worshiped, I am sure they sat on something, I am sure somebody looked after their children when they where at church etc etc etc.

    I dont want to get into this old argument of what is biblical and what is not, but we should be very careful and use as much discernment as we can when it comes to theologies that challenge biblical belief.

    We cannot throw the bible out every time somebody claims that God is doing something new, we need to test what they are saying against scripture, especially when it relates to who Jesus Christ is.

    Sometimes teachings which are based in truth become false teachings because the people who recieved them initially misunderstood them or have deliberately changed them to give highlite to their own ministries.

    Like I have said numerous times that this subject is controversial, but I think we should take the time and examine these theologies and see firstly where did they originate from, what do they teach and imply and very importantly where do they lead in terms of what Christ taught.

    If you are implying that I am religious in nature because I test everything I see and hear against the word of God, then I forgive you brother. There is a difference between doing things with biblical principle and doing things out of religious conformity. I have never said that these new theologies are incorrect, I have only said that we should examine them more closely!

    Actually the teachings of Christ where not new and radical, they where based solidly on what the prophets etc wrote about Christ. They prophesied that He would do these things. The religious people where blinded by pride and could not see Jesus in the scriptures, Jesus accused them of this a few times. Jesus taught about loving God and loving your fellow man, things which the old testament where full of. Jesus did many radical miracles, which the OT is full of as well.

    Let us never forget that Jesus is God! The whole of the OT leads up to Him, the Gospels teach us about what He said and did, the rest of the NT teaches us how to apply what He said and did.

    I do not want to sit and argue about side issues, I have to much respect for you Bo. What I would like to do is to take each one of these new teachings and and strip them down to where they started, what they imply and how do they support or contradict scripture. At the moment I have too little information on them, there is a lot of hype about them but very little real information about them.

    The devil is the father of all lies, and in this day and age we need to discern what is truth and what is a lie. Yes God has given us the Holy Spirit to warn us, but God also made us logical human beings who have brains and can work through things logically.

    Forgive me if I have caused any offence or anger, it is not my intention. I have a passion for Jesus and the truth He paid so dearly for! Sometimes in forums like this it is difficult to express what we really want to express and people only take the portions they feel they can relate to and sometimes argue about.

    Your brother in Christ.
  13. I can honestly say Kevin you did nothing wrong. If I offended you or anyone else I apologize now.
    Perhaps it is due to many years of seeing folks condemn what I have seen God doing that I get a little sensitive about this subject. I have seen God move on hearts, change lives, build His kingdom and only to have people reject this godly fruit because they could not proof text it. The proof my friend is in the fruit it bears.

    Jer 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
  14. the bible warns us over and over and over again... Warning us, the believers... Were they warning us of other religions trying to persuade us to join there religions? No... Is the bible warning the unbeliever? No... The bible was warning the believers of many things...the bible warns the believers of the evil that will lurk into Christianity without even being noticed... Many Christian preachers will preach that Jesus isn't The only begotten Son(clearly warned against) that preaching for self gain is sin( you have to be blind not to see that) .... And many other things...we have just let these things come into Christianity when it hasn't got anything to do with Christianity but the total opposite... If we can't see that these are the things the bible warns us about than my question to you my friends is:what exactly is the bible warning us about? Why are Jesus disciples warning us so strictly bout these things that we can clearly see but choose to ignore or to even believe and follow..what do the warnings , false prophets,false teachers,false doctrines,false,false,false!! Again I ask what are they warning us about? Have I got a problem with new ideas into the Church?No, as long as its Christian:) just my point of view again:)
  15. Jesus bought something new, radical etc bec he had to, he was the only one who could and can show us right from wrong... A lot of new things in Christianity are trying to change Jesus...
    Any ways:) I just don't think the Lord wants us to take everything today that is called Christian and embrace it:)
    peace my friends:)
  16. Am I still immature in Christianity? Very, I'm still a baby:) but I can choose to see right from wrong:)
  17. Who is trying to change Christ Oogii? In what way? Can you be specific?
  18. Fortunately my brother we have the Holy Spirit to help us, lead us and warn us. God never wants us to be fearful of such things but He does want us to have our spiritual eyes open.
  19. i'm not gonna spend a lot of time on this:) but if you want to google "claims Jesus isn't the only begotten Son" or "i am everything Jesus was and ever will be" they will tell you who teaches things like that and reference..peace:)
  20. This is my last post in this thread- I am not trying to offend anyone but I question the spirit of fear I sense.
    Those claims have been around since the beginning- I see no difference today than what was circulating 2000 years ago. Do not live in fear God is greater than all who oppose Him- much love and many blessings, BL.
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