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My Favorite Trinity Passage Of Scripture ... Wow!

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by evangelist-77, Apr 25, 2012.

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  1. "And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
    that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth
    … you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
    I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
    … If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
    and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
    … But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
    He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."
    John 14:16-26

    The Greek word here for "another" is "allos" meaning "another of the same kind" (ref: Vine).
    So, the Holy Spirit is another Person of the Triune Godhead (like God the Son).
    It seems to say that ...
    all 3 Persons of the Triune God will come to be with the faithful believer,
    but only the Holy Spirit will remain in him/her forever (i.e. until death),
    and only the Holy Spirit will be the One doing the teaching.
    Interesting, what?
  2. Would no one care to comment on this fabulous passage of Scripture?
  3. Why, you want the thread to be locked also? : )

    Just kidding, I see you that you are a happy soul : )

    We may have a different view on Paul’s definition of gifts, services, ministerial… but we have the same spirit that works on us for the common good of the church/ body of Christ.

    I really admire Christians who work in the field…., help to harvest….they are entrusted more responsibilities, and the corresponding gifts/ talent necessary….

    Where I belong to, layman, secular people can be useful of, I think, is more on to provide whatever support we can give…: )
  4. aha,
    I appreciate your concern re: Jesus' sending out evangelists, etc. to help with the harvest.
    I will post my testimony for you to enjoy and hopefully benefit from.
  5. It could also mean another, as in another general, executing God's plan. It could be another, not of humanity, it could be all sorts of things that don't require it to be a trinitarian meaning.

    In fact, to play devils advocate, jesus goes so far in His prayers to ask that we can be in god as he was in god, but being IN him denotes a separation of the two. So Christ separates Himself from God and shows How He is joined together. Further, He asks in that prayer that we be in him, christ, who is in God, as He was in God. So, us being in Christ, would make us God's equals, in your logic.

    And, I'm not saying the verse isn't a trinitarian verse, but as written that is not a necessary to conclude it is, and thus is inconclusive, it could be presumed on either side of that argument. But I'm glad I looked at your thought, its made me think. Ty.

  6. As one who is always set for the defense of the gospel, I have, throughout my Christian life, enjoyed speaking to those who knock on my door to share their religions. Walter Martin's book, Kingdom of the Cults, has prepared me well to reply to a few who come by, particularly the Jehovah Witnesses. As many may know, these folks do not believe in the Trinity, among other things. And yet, from out of their very own Bible, the New World Translation, I am able to point to the Trinity.

    In the book of Acts, Peter states, "God who raised Jesus from the dead." In Romans, we're told, "If the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead," and Jesus Himself said, "Destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days," which He spoke of His body. So we see that God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus raised Jesus from the dead.

    The whole aspect of being threefold can unfold many truths in Scripture. For instance, we are threefold beings: spirit, soul and body. Salvation is a threefold work: justification, sanctification and glorification. And, as I see it, baptisms are threefold: blood, water and spirit.
  7. I really enjoyed your justification of Trinity. Nice logic argument.... clear and concise... effective, etc....

    Sidebar, "soul" in the jewish belief is just a body with life in it. I am not sure how that is separate from body in your observation from similarities between us and trinity.
  8. Hahaha............you are very right "aha". This is one of those doctrines that always leads to an argument.

    Biblically speaking, the term "GODHEAD" is without question a referrance to the Trinity.

    The biblical term is "Godhead" (theiotes) and it is used three times in Scripture, Act 17:29; Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9. The word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture, which is a theological word Christians use to refer to the Godhead.

    "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." (Acts 17:29)

    "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20)

    "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9)

    The doctrine states that the Godhead, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit consist of three distinct Persons, yet these three are one God.
  9. It's likely Jewish belief takes instruction from the Genesis 2:7 passage, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Nevertheless, it's a fairly easy search to see in Scripture that the soul takes in one's affections, emotions, mind and heart. One example: "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

    As for human beings being threefold, we understand through the Bible that an unsaved person possesses a spirit that has not been "quickened" or "made alive." Proof of man's threefold makeup is 1 Thess. 5:23, " And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
  10. Hope in god,

    I have the same bible, and you can't conclusively conclude any of your claims. I understand you believe that but that doesn't conclude absolutely anything.

    Case in point, man's spirit..... there is only ONE verse that I have found, that couldn't easily interpret "spirit" in reverence to man, as using the word in the sense of underlying attitude. Like cheerleaders yelling we got spirit..... that sort of spirit. ALL but one can be read as such, vs some ghostly like entity inside of you.

    And yet you conclude we all have one. Go ahead and post all you want here to show me wrong, it will only give me more examples to prove mine.

    The jewish understanding of soul, at least to the jewish scholars/teachers, had nothing to do with the way you describe it here. When the "soul" was gone, their life was gone, and only a carcas remains. It just means life of the carcas....
  11. No need to continue if you simply want to be obstinate, X. If you were teachable, fine. God bless.
  12. So, It's obstinate to not agree with you and praise your comments?
    It's obstinate to ask questions comparing your conclusion to historical and biblical events/facts/interpretation?

    I think feelig you are beyond question, is substantially more obstinate than asking questions is.

    Your willingness to feel you are the teacher, without knowing what I know, where I've been, and what you might learn from me is commendable. Not even JESUS took that position. I swear I thought I had responded to this post, I guess I didn't. None the less, here's the thoughts now.
  13. I am on your side and it seems we are both on Gods side! It always seemed pretty simple to me.
  14. Something else to think about ...

    Jesus never taught Trinity to the multitudes on dem dar hills.
    They didn't have the Holy Spirit to tell them it was the truth.
    Ditto for His disciples until .
    Then, they got the picture when they received the Holy Spirit.
    Except for doubting Thomas who was playin' hookey.
    Shortly afterwards he also was blessed.
    Which was prior to him getting da revelation, "You're my Lord and my God!".

    And this all ties into why Jesus taught in parables so much.
    Again, spiritual truth really is only for those to whom the Holy Spirit reveals it.

    And this all ties into who is elected before the foundation of the world.
    But, these blessed folks also have to be willing to be sanctified unto holiness.
    And be willing to be perfected.
    And be successful in allowing demselves to be overcomers!

    And maybe that's the end of it.
    Except we need to start a thread about this ...

  15. If TRINITY is important, why do you think God/Jesus saw fit to keep themselves separated in the books? And is that relevant to a today's believer to note?
  16. I explained why Trinity could not be taught prior to the arrival of the Holy Spirit.
    Therefore, this has nothing to do with today's believers.
  17. I must not be making sense. Since the Bible isn't written with an emphasis on TRINITY, but is more about how you live your life, why do we need to be considering this a relevant conversation today?

    What differnce does it make what you believe on Trinity? That won't save you....
  18. I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the Trinity did not exist before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit or that is just could not be taught???

    Allow me to give you this information. The teaching of the Trinity is Found in Jewish Targums (O.T. in Armaic) and commentaries such as the Zohar. These Jewish lessons taught that God appears in the form of three persons of the Godhead, three manifestations or three emanations.

    In Genesis 1:26 God said, "Let Us make man in Our image." Then in Genesis 1:27 Moses records "And Elohim created man in His image, in the image of Elohim He created him; male and female He created them," thus making it plain that the Us in verse 26 is clearly referring to God, not to angels as some people speculate. God makes plain in verse 26 that He is the Three in One.

    Moses wrote in Genesis 11:5, "And Yehovah came down to see the city," using the singular noun. Yet in verse 7 is used the plural noun which is Yehovah again indicating the plurality of His nature when He said, "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech."
    Something to consider I think!

    Another passage in the Zohar indicates clearly that the Jewish sages understood the Trinity nature of God:

    "The fourth precept is to acknowledge that the Lord is God, as we read: ‘Know this day, and lay it to thy heart that Yehovah [h/;hy]], he is Elohim’ [!yhiloa>] (Deuteronomy 4:39); namely, to combine the name Elohim "God" with the name Jehovah "Lord" in the consciousness that they form an indivisible unity." (Thanks to "layevangelical.com).
  19. Jesus never taught Trinity to the multitudes on dem dar hills.
    If He had done so, they would have laughed Him back to Nazareth.
    They didn't have the Holy Spirit to tell them it was the truth.

    Ditto for His disciples until John 20:22.

    And this all ties into why Jesus taught in parables so much.
    Again, spiritual truth really is only for those to whom the Holy Spirit reveals it.
    Do you think any unsaved person can understand the NT?
  20. Ok, its called a no true Scotsman fallacy. It doesn't work in the real world and it doesn't work I theology either. Anyone can claim"I get the real message, you don't have the spirit because you disagree! " its a crock. Consider the ramifications. You have a person with demonic influence, they are convinced they got it right and you don't, therefore you have not got the spirit, they do. You can't prove them wrong. They can't prove you wrong, because both are being hard headed and unreasonable. Reason......

    You reason with what God gave you to test the spirits. If you are possessed or under demonic influence, or just a plain narcissist, if you don't listen to others you can't be corrected... come let us reason..... doesn't mean talk down at people until they give in or leave them standing, it doesn't mean lecture them, it means you have to take their arguments and work through them and reconcile them. Not just dismiss them because they don't sound right at first glance. Scripture is good for teaching and rebuking. If you can't be wrong, then you can never find out if you could be wrong and not be corrected if you need to be.
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