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Multiplication Of Bread

Discussion in 'Holy Spirit Baptism and Living' started by TheCurseOfTheRodain, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. I heard a firsthand testimony of someone who multiplied bread at my church the other day. I thought it was awesome, and I have brought someone back from death before, among other things, but this was the first time I have heard of anyone doing this aside from Jesus. I've seen essentially every manifestation of the gifts and all kinds of healings, but has anyone else done this or seen this, and if so, please elaborate for the glory of God.
    Be BLESSED (empowered to prosper)!
     
  2. Can we discuss the logic behind that miracle if you don't mind?

    I cannot understand why God would do that amongst a well fed church in the USA :confused:... I expect to hear that kind of testimony from an African congregation.
     
  3. Sure KingJ,

    I would say it stems from the fact that God is not interested in need. He already promised to supply ALL our need in Phil 4:19, so all we do is take Him at His Word, after all He did say in Psalm 89:34 that My covenant will I not break, nor will I alter the thing that is gone out of My lips. So whatever He says He means exactly that, or else He would have said something different.

    So in Psalm 23 it doesn't say The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not NEED, it says WANT. We aren't to be focused on our needs (1 Peter 5:5-7 He says to cast the whole of our care on Him or else we're being prideful), but rather He wants us focus on our wants.

    Mark 11:24 Jesus said WHAT THINGS SO EVER YOU DESIRE, not what things God desires, or what things you need, but rather, what things you DESIRE.

    Psalm 37:4 the Father says to us to delight ourselves in Him and He will give us the DESIRES of our hearts, not the needs.

    If He is not interested in our wants then why does He want to give them to us? If our children ask us for candy at the store do we snap and say, "You greedy little worm! You don't NEED candy!" No, we'd say, okay, let me get you some - which kind do you WANT?

    Why does Jesus speak of the Father giving GOOD gifts to us after giving the analogy of parents giving their children something they don't want (like a snake in place of bread)? Because God is very interested in giving us our WANTS.


    With all this mind now, seeing through the Scripture lens, WHY would God multiply bread for someone here in the USA? Because they had a WANT and Jesus did not say, "IF you are POOR, THEN, and only then, will you do all the same works I have done and even greater."
    You are blessed to be what? A blessing. As opposed to being blessed to meet a need. God uses the word blessing and the Blessing of the Lord makes RICH, and He adds no sorrow (Hebrew for toil) with it. Blessing literally empowered to prosper, as opposed to empowered to have needs met. Prosperity goes well beyond needs.

    If you go down the needs road, everyone must continually have less than whoever they see, because there will always be someone somewhere that has less and yet is still alive. He won't have a wife, won't have clothes, will eat bugs for food, get sick, stink, won't have a house, won't have utensils, etc, etc. And everyone would have to come down to that poverty level in order to comply with only getting from God if you're poor, or even po'.

    Yet, all you can see from God is that you are supposed to be wealthy, rich, prosperous - BLESSED, all the time, everywhere and in every way, spiritually, physically, financially and socially.

    I have seen God do very specific things with the stock market for me for rich men - WHY? Because I wanted it. I have seen God heal me from awful things - could I have stayed alive without sight or without a knee or without a hand? Of course - but I didn't want those things - and He healed me, because I wanted to be healed, not because I needed to be healed.

    SO back to the bread multiplying - He will do ALL that you expect Him to, all that you can and are willing to believe Him for, and He cannot do anything you won't believe Him for. It's like your body - you expect it to do 50 pushups straight and you work at it, the body will come UP to that level for you. If you don't practice it, your body will NOT. It is no different with our faith (which is HIS faith, 1 John 5, 2 Peter 1:2, Mark 11:22 (the Greek says "Have the faith of God", as in, He's offering to you), Galatians 2:20 (By the faith OF the Son of God, not IN)).

    How many times did Jesus say "Be it unto you, even as YOU believe."? What did He say to the woman with the daughter who had a demon? Woman, FOR THIS SAYING it is so. She wanted it and wasn't leaving until she got it.
    When Jesus was in the wilderness with the people who followed Him out there, and His disciples said send them to town so they can get something to eat, what did He say? That isn't necessary - YOU feed them! He multiplied the bread and fish and the Scripture says that all ate and ate UNTIL THEY WERE SATISFIED, not UNTIL THEY HAD AS MUCH AS THEY NEEDED.
    When Elijah multiplied the oil, he went WAAAAAAY beyond that widow's need and funded her retirement. It didn't stop flowing until she ran out of vessels - the oil flowed UP to the level of her faith in God.

    Lastly, if it were about need with God, there wouldn't be one poor person on the Earth, and yet, it's because faith works on WANT, not need. There also wouldn't be any sickness or disease. Everything would be automatic for every Christian, there would be no faith involved whatsoever. Mark 11:22-24 - Remove what you don't want using the faith He's given you (which is equal for all Believers because it's HIS faith given to you (the Son of God's (Gal 2:20)) and bring to pass what you DO WANT, using His faith.
     
  4. I hope you read the whole thing - I didn't realize how big it was, but it's all good.
     
  5. #5 KingJ, Nov 12, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
    Thanks for the reply. I did read it all ;).

    Your intentions are good but I am willing to bet $1000 000 that that miracle never took place. Why is nobody jumping off buildings and asking God to get angels to catch them rather? Indeed we can and will do greater miracles then Jesus did. But it is ALL to the glory of God and according to His will.

    When Jesus fed the 5000 it was for a practical / logical reason. Matt 14:15 As evening approached, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a remote place, and it’s already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food.

    We need to look closer at scripture. It says 'according to His will' and that 'we show ourselves to be His disciples' who 'keep His commandments'. Being a good disciple that would keep His commandments involves a lot of skill / humility / knowing / being sensitive to God's will.

    John 5:7-8 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. John 14:12-15 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. If you love Me, keep My commandments. 1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
     
  6. "it doesn't say The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not NEED, it says WANT"
    Your interpretation is wrong, "want" means "to be without" in this case, it has nothing to do with the emotion of "want".

    "Yet, all you can see from God is that you are supposed to be wealthy, rich, prosperous - BLESSED, all the time, everywhere and in every way, spiritually, physically, financially and socially."

    This is the heart of the "prosperity gospel", which is false. You've been listening to too much Joel Osteen.
    Jesus said to "give all you have to the poor and follow me", not "thou shalt be fat and happy in thy indolence".
    Jesus' miracles were performed for those with REAL NEEDS, not to make the fat more fat or the rich more rich.

    Brought back someone from death? Dates, names, medical records please.
    If I had a dollar for every fraudulent miracle worker that's come by this site I could take a very nice vacation.
     
    KingJ likes this.
  7. KingJ! (it sounds like it needs an exclamation point :) )
    Why they don't jump off buildings is the same reason Jesus gave the Devil for why He wouldn't jump down from the Temple like a moron.
    Of course it is all to the glory of the Father - they didn't take the credit like Moses - they gave it to God. I do not see a reason why these people would lie about something like that - there were several witnesses.
    I get your point about practical/logical reason, but that is not found in the Scriptures - that is man trying to justify why God would do something like that for someone. It's all tied in to what I wrote about need vs want.

    Notice that Jesus says that YOU bear fruit, as opposed to saying I bear fruit in you or the Father bears fruit in you.
    Just like He says ANYONE/WHOSOEVER believes in Him would DO the same works He did and even greater. There are no restrictions on that, and we can't add any to it either.

    So then we have conquer the question of what is God's will? God's will is His Word. Infallibly.
    For instance, how many times did Jesus say, "Hold on, I have to see if God WANTS to heal you - let Me check..."? He knew that God placed all of the sicknesses and diseases in the world on Him (though it was future) and by His stripes we were healed (Matt 8:16-17). (in the same that Gal 3 talks about how God did not judge anyone's sins yet, because He was looking forward to the time when Jesus would take away all sin). God's will is ALWAYS healing, and we know that by the Word. We know in the same way that prosperity is always His will, or else (amongst many many others) we cannot have 2 Cor 9:8 (which He again carried out at the cross, not as the Son of God or the Son of Man but as the Lamb of God).
    What about tongues via the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Jesus already defined God's will in Mark 16:17-18 saying that ALL who believe, these signs WILL accompany/follow them.
    What about any Believer being able to heal the sick? Same place - Mark 16:17-18.
    We can go on and on. And now when we come to multiplication of food, Jesus already said WHOSOEVER believes in Me, the same works shall He do. There is no way around this that Jesus has already said the Will of God; He didn't limit it to only logical applications as deemed by the natural mind of man.

    So, we, being led by the Holy Spirit every day and in all ways prevents us from acting like idiots putting God to foolish tests thereby being outwitted by the Devil, and causes us, as we seek (if we seek we will find - ask God to give you an instance where you can multiply bread and fishes and I guarantee you if you don't turn loose of your faith and keep on pressing Him about it and believe you receive that in faith (Mark 11:24) you will have the situation presented to you. I have seen God do the same thing with the gifts of the Holy Spirit (all of which you have and can walk in as you seek to - otherwise Paul could not have said (and have God say, that's right son, I will publish what you said as My Word) to desire certain gifts if you could not walk in whichever ones YOU desire).

    So there is the will of God. The Will of God = God's Word.
     
  8. Glomung, you said, "Jesus said to "give all you have to the poor and follow me"

    It is convenient to ignore and overlook the many RICH people Jesus came into contact with and yet had them keep their wealth...Nicodemus for one, was a rich man and a disciple of Jesus, and yet Jesus did not instruct him to get rid of it. Zaccheus, moved by the Spirit gave half his wealth as a demonstration of the change inside of him, yet he KEPT half, and Jesus didn't say, 'you worthless greedy worm! Give that money away right now!"
    Paul instructed Timothy about the rich in his church and instead of saying to kick them out and tell them they must give up all their money, he said, direct them to sow and communicate freely. Who were all these WEALTHY people that ministered to Jesus out of their substance? He didn't say, "you worthless greedy rich people, give it ALL to me, or give it all to the poor!" No, they kept it and remained wealthy, and yet, Jesus didn't say anything about that either. The entire OC is filled with being wealthy and prosperous. And so is the NC (why did Jesus become poor so that by His poverty YOU could become rich?). The word blessed means empowered to prosper, and now Gal 3:13-14 Jesus says you have been given the blessing of Abraham. Look at Gen 24:35 for an explanation of how God blessed Abraham - he was RICH, in gold and silver and all things. IF God is against riches and wealth, why did He give it to him and then say now I am giving it to you?

    Rather you look at the ONE time Jesus said something like that and it was said in a moment of love as He beheld this man and He knew the man's things owned him rather than the other way around, and so He said what He said, but notice He said SELL what you have and give the MONEY to the poor, because Jesus knew, he could only get richer as a result (Gal 6:7).

    AND THEN, what did He say? It was harder for him to enter the Kingdom of GOD, not the Kingdom of HEAVEN. These are 2 different words and the KOG refers ONLY to a method or God's ways, whereas the KOH refers ONLY to the physical location God inhabits. Search it out for yourself and you will see the Truth.
     
  9. On top of all that, Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Since that's true, He will only have the same standards for everyone. If God hates wealth and wants you poor, that would have been a commandment, and Jesus would have gone around preaching that every rich person He encountered, yet to only 1 rich person did He say sell what you have and give the $ to the poor, and it was for the reasons listed above.
     
  10. Maybe he did the miracle to bring joy and faith? Im sure the ppl who saw it were amazed.
    I believe there are such things as fake and real miracles of all sorts, im not judging this one just because no one was starving to death.
     
  11. Edit: idk how to delete a double post so i will just say... Cheers?
     
  12. I would have to agree with you FireLover. Cheers!
     
  13. Hi Glomung. I don't know who has come on here as a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I am not one of them. I met Jesus May 27th, 2001 and I was rather like Saul before he became Paul, and then I became "Paul", if you will. For the Lord gave me an encounter with His Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father all in the same night. I was never and could never be the same again.

    Dates, names, medical records...I've heard that before; the people who ask such questions have no actual interest in what they are asking for, because they will not believe it even when they see it, just like the Pharisees who saw Jesus bring Lazarus back from the dead right in front of their eyes - instead, they went to seek how they could murder Him. Clearly, seeing proof is not going to convince people who demand proof and are unwilling to believe.

    I dont have any medical records on this - this guy was my wife's (then my girlfriend) roommate's cousin. His name is Julian. A bunch of my college group heard about this; I said let's go wake him up. We all got around him and prayed, but nothing happened. I chose to wait until after everyone left the room and it was just me in there. I spoke with the Lord and then I spoke to Julian, the same way Peter did it with Dorcas. I told him to get up in the name of Jesus and that I knew he could hear me and instantly his eyes shot open, then his hand shot up and he grabbed my hand and pulled himself off the bed. He came to back to life from death (a disease had killed him). I never saw him even one time after that and I have no idea how he is doing now. I spoke with about 5 minutes and then never saw him again. It was one of the most amazing moments with the Lord I have thus experienced. All the glory goes to Jesus, whose Spirit did the work.
     
  14. No offense Rodain, but that story falls into what we call "hearsay", and as the occurance is completed unsupported by
    any documentation or reliable witnesses, I call bunkum.
    There have been dozens of so called "spirit filled wonder workers" roaming the backwaters of the US in recent years, and every single one of them has been proven a fraud when the less than gullible start to investigate.

    I would love your claims to be true, but I have absolutely no reason to trust you.
    Experience, something I do trust, has shown me otherwise.
     
  15. Hey Glomung - I appreciate being as wise as a serpent - I am too. You can believe these things or not, they still happened, but I can see being in your shoes why you would be tempted to write it off - I take no offense. I didn't say I go around doing these things - I do it like Jesus - only what the Spirit say to do and say. I have looked for other opportunities to bring back the dead, but so far, that is the only one I've had. 1/1 so far, ready to be 2/2.

    Perhaps we'll talk more - be BLESSED though and may the Lord give you fresh revelation from Heaven today on things you have wanted answered. Amen :)
     
  16. Jesus took a few loaves and fishes and fed a multitude and now because of His Spirit in us, by Mary's $3 offering, and Joe's tithe, and Iesha's almsgiving (representing us all) we now fees millions of hungry people every single day (without any nations tax dollars)...we house, heal, clothe, and even bring sources of fresh water to millions more...Oh yes, we are doing very great works!

    Did you know that Christian charity (chesed and tzedakah) does more to accomplish these things than any ten nations combined? The same with the number of souls that come to Christ each day...Wow! This is miraculous being that we are also the most persecuted faith (for our faith) in the entire world.

    Now on a personal note (and I am definitely not WoF) I have seen and been used in healings (I myself was healed of chronic acidosis for which I was put on lifetime meds having passed Kidney Stones 7 times...when I was baptized at 32 a voice spoke to me within and said "Throw your pills away I have healed you"...the problem is totally gone and now I am in my 60s)...so has my wife Salome been used (called from sleep one time at 5 am to go to a hospital and pray for this woman we know who had had 2 heart attacks in one 24 hour period recovering from a leg operation....two years ago and Zophia is still among us...the lady was in ICU, usually family only, but she told the nurse at the door who was wearing a cross that she had an unction from God for this purpose and the nurse let her in)...also I have seen the dead and near dead resuscitated, but as you know these are rare instances and God administers His gifts now severally as He wills. None of us has the command over such things like given to the Apostles,...but God still responds to the fervent prayer of the righteous. Keep expecting God do work through you and others...

    Just say'n

    Brother Paul
     
    KingJ likes this.
  17. Actually Paul, Peter said why look at us as if we by our calling healed this man, but rather it was the power of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that healed, faith in that name. In other words - you can do everything He says you can, the same as the original Apostles.
     
  18. TCOTR of course it is by faith in His name and you can do everything He says YOU can...It nowhere says YOU can or will raise the dead or heal whoever YOU pray for (His will not ours be done)...
     
  19. Wow Glomug, Someone must have put sand in your cereal. First the rich man was told to sell all he has, but you did not bother to see what Jesus was trying to get back to him............. (All the scripture!!!! Not just parts)

    Also, no matter where I am at, I am the blessed all the time everywhere. It almost sounds like you Leave Jesus at home some days, and I would suggest you ask him to go everywhere with you.

    Prosperity Gospel:
    Everything in the Word was meant to prosper mankind, to exhort, to correct. You have a very strange Doctrine here or must be reading the Koran or something.


    Miracles:

    What's it to God to multiply Bread when there are 3 semi trucks of bread sitting on the lot? It's not a big deal to God at all. I have seen the wealthy sow into the kingdom and get great surprise and tons extra while the poor that kept their mite got nothing because money is a good test to where your heart is at. I have seen the poor obey God, sow their 5.00 then God turn around and make a way to give them a house, and all their children back while someone else that plodded along just to go to church got nothing.

    My son was suppose to be dead, his body blue from all the blood vessels that had broken, getting the call that night telling me there is no way he would live. I fear nothing or doubt nothing and asked the devil if that was the best he could do after standing on the Word 8 solid days with no improvements in sight.

    On the 9th day ................. The day I was suppose to loose my son......... All the glory to God!!! And yes, I think I might still have the medical report but we can't find it. I was wanting to put it on my forum for a testimony.

    without faith, you will never be used in anything like this. We believe first............ then we see, not the other way around. While I have not seen the dead raised, I have laid hands on the sick and been shown the medical reports. Just because there are fakes, we don't despise the Word or what is real.

    Faith people....... get with it.

    blessings.
     
  20. MichaelH - not sure why you bother to comment on a months old post.
    Regardless - the point was that we had another person cliaming to have witnessed the "wonderful and miraculous"
    without a bit of substantiating evidence to back it up. It is exactly the same type of garbage that you see regularly
    "roaming the backwaters of the US in recent years, and every single one of them has been proven a fraud when the less than gullible start to investigate."

    You are missing the point of the discussion.
    It is not whether God blesses the faithful, it is not whether God blesses the diligent.

    It is about whether these supposed wonder workers ARE FRAUDS.
     

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