Just what does it mean to be born again?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Complete, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. Also @Complete
    My apologies for your thread going in a different direction.

    All members we have strayed from the OP and we need to return it back.
    Thank You

    Cturtle likes this.
  2. Hi Chris, I noticed none of the scriptures you use came from the Apostle Paul. Because he never used the term born again.
    I would say being born-again is exactly as it has been defined in scripture, we have been birthed, by God birthing His only begotten Son in the believer.
    We know Paul preached the birthing, would you care too guess what he calls it.
  3. May I give you all something to think about on this subject.

    (a) Right.....................Grace through Faith = Salvation + Works.
    (b) Wrong.................. Grace through Faith + Baptism + Woks = Salvation.

    Formula (b) is biblically incorrect as well as logically incorrect. The first law of logic says that 2 contradictory things cannot both be true at the same time and in the same relationship. Consider that the definition of grace is unmerited favor and is a free gift which is what the Bible teaches. So it would be merited favor if works or baptism or anything else are required for salvation. Something cannot both be unmerited and merited at the same time.

    This is precisely what Paul is arguing in Rom. 11:6 ...........
    “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”

    and in Gal. 2:9........
    “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly.”

    One of the things I have observed over my years is that we tend to believe what someone says because they are Godly and well spoken and we love them. May I say to you that it is not what someone says but it is always what God says in His Word that is important.
  4. Nicodemus was a Jew and according to Jewish rabbinical literature there were six ways in which a person could be born again: Being crowded king, being prostelytied, and four others which I can't remember but you can find out in the teaching of Arnold Fructumbaum. The point I think Jesus was making is that on order to inherit salvation, heaven and everything involved in that, there has to be a spiritual regeneration or renewal. This involves the individual being moved upon by the grace of God and much more which I won't go into now. Does this help?
  5. #25 Complete, Aug 10, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
    Fish Catcher Jim
    David Crosby

    Hello there,

    Thank you for your comments, and information, which I will follow through. I have not clicked the 'like' button in response to any entry, for this is not a matter of what I like or don't like about what you have said, but of understanding your perception of what the words, 'born again' mean.

    * The most well known reference to this, is in John 3:3, isn't it?:-

    'Jesus answered and said unto him,
    "Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
    except a man be
    born again,
    he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    * The witness accounts recorded in John's gospel, were chosen with one aim in view,

    'And many other signs truly did Jesus
    in the presence of His disciples,
    which are not written in this book:
    But these are written,
    that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ,
    the Son of God;
    and that believing
    ye might have life through His Name'.

    (Joh 20:30,31)

    * Passing from death to life necessitates new birth.

    Nicodemus, a ruler in Israel, a Teacher, should have understood the necessity of spiritual birth, through the word of God by Ezekiel concerning Israel as a nation, in which he says,

    'And I will give them one heart,
    and I will put a new spirit within you;
    and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh,
    and will give them an heart of flesh:
    That they may walk in My statutes,
    and keep mine ordinances,
    and do them:
    and they shall be My People,
    and I will be their God.'

    (Eze 11:19,20)

    * Without this new spirit, no man of Israel could, 'see', or 'enter' the Kingdom of God.

    *Our Lord speaks of being born from above as, being, 'born of the Spirit' in John 3:7,8. Again, Nicodemus, being familiar with the Old Testament prophecies, would have known of this, see, Ezekiel, 3:6,8; 37:9, 12,14, John 5:21-29. 'Life through His Name', required being, 'born of the Spirit'.

    * It is true that Paul does not use the term, 'Born again', but he does use the term, 'born after the Spirit', in Galatians 4:29, and the principle is in so much that God says through Paul. Forgive me, Noblemen, but I am afraid I shall have to disappoint you in not coming up with the verse you expect of me. However, I will end with this one which encapsulates this truth for me.

    'I am crucified with Christ:
    nevertheless I live;
    yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
    and the life which I now live in the flesh
    I live by the faith of the Son of God,
    Who loved me,
    and gave Himself for me.'

    (Gal 2:20)

    Forgive me for being long-winded. :)

    In Christ Jesus
    Our risen and glorified,
    Saviour, Lord and Head.

    Noblemen and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  6. John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
    14:21 He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father,
    and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
    14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him,
    and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    14:24 He that loves me not keeps not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
    14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
    14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things,
    and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
    7:38 He that believes on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given;
    because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

    Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

    Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

    Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
    full of grace and truth.
    loriT and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  7. I was not necessarily looking for any certain verse. Paul use's the term "Mystery" to describe being born again. He refers to Christ in us as a Mystery time and time again. Thanks Chris for playing along, you always produce the best scriptures, blessings dear sister.
    loriT likes this.
  8. Again and again - how erroneous you are...

    18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.
    19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
    and of the Holy Spirit,

    20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the
    end of the age."
    Mathew 28:18-20

    13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
    14 And John went to prevent him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?"
    15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."
    Then he [John] allowed him.
    Mathew 3:13-15

    As disciples we are expected to emulate and follow the life and teachings of our spiritual Lord and Master.
    Here in both sets of verses we have received specific instructions commanding us to be baptized in water,
    and if it was a necessity for Jesus to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness then how much more is it required
    of us to do likewise!!!
  9. Mathew is not written to you, it's for you as far as a historical record.
    We can use any part of the Bible for life application and so on because it is the word of God.
    If you go to the Psalms you will be greatly blessed, but there is no life there. Same with Proverbs and all the Old Testament. We follow the Cross and if it didn't come through the Cross we do ourselves a favor by leaving it alone.
    "Life is in the Son, he that hath the Son hath life."
    Only 1/5 of the written scriptures are specifically written directly to you, the born again.
    Much confusion comes from commingling all the Word of God into one Gospel.
    The reason John is so much different than the other writers is because he wrote his book some 30 years after Paul gave us the " in Christ " message.
  10. Not to beat a dead horse but Paul said " I baptized a few, but I'll baptize no more " they were arguing over who baptized them. Pauls point was " it don't matter "
    Major likes this.
  11. To be BORN AGAIN or BORN ANEW or BORN FROM ABOVE is clearly demonstrated by the early chapters of the gospels describing the
    baptism of Jesus - this being a role model or template that we ourselves are obliged to undertake.
    Jesus, himself as our Lord and spiritual Master illustrates what true disciples must do to fulfill righteousness...

    Mathew 3:
    1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea.
    2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
    14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
    16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw
    the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    This is Acts 2:38-39, the book of Acts and all the Epistles. True worshippers who can worship the Father in spirit and in truth.
    This is true Pentecost. The same today as it was in the beginning.

    Romans 8:
    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry,
    Abba, Father.
    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Mark 1:
    7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the laces of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
    8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
    9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
    10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
    11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Luke 3:
    21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
    22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said,
    Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

    John 1:
    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
    30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
    31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
    32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
    33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending,
    and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
    34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

    Well there you have it - the fundamentals of the gospel - the New Covenant foretold in Ezekiel and Jeremiah. So simple and straightforward.
    Act 2:
    1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
    and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    Believe the scriptures. It is the best place to start from ...
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  12. Hello there,

    Being born from above is a work of God, it requires no act of the flesh to accomplish it.

    In Christ Jesus
    Cturtle, Fish Catcher Jim, Major and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  13. #33 Samuels, Aug 13, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
    I wonder if he (and you) believe the chapters 1 Corinthians 12 thru 14,
    and also Ephesians 4:11 (about the 5-fold ministry re: church leaders),
    and other verses which put the apostles and prophets as the #1 leaders
    ... are important ... just for historical purposes, or are they for today?
    Please respond carefully.
  14. #34 Cturtle, Aug 13, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
    I believe in all of the Bible, and yes I do believe that all offices of the 5 fold ministry are for today.

    @Major will have to answer for himself.

  15. Hello Samuels
    It's been a very long week and I am wondering what exactly you were thinking when you wrote the above quote.
  16. I hope that I have not offended anyone.
    I simply meant that one should carefully consider
    the ramifications of teaching that
    all of Scripture is not for today!
    IMO, even the instructions to slaves and their masters are in effect today.
    Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  17. #37 Complete, Aug 14, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
    'But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of,
    knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
    which are able to make thee wise unto salvation
    through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
    and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
    for instruction in righteousness:
    That the man of God may be perfect,
    throughly furnished unto all good works'.

    (2Ti 3:14-17)

    Hello @Samuels,

    I agree with what is written above about the Word of God, (all Scripture). Yet I believe also that although all Scripture is 'for' us, not all is 'about' us. Therefore it has to be 'rightly-divided'. We may all have different understanding concerning what rightly-dividing means in practice, but it is important to differentiate between what was written for another dispensation, and not apply it to the present one, either past or future. For by doing so we could be erring regarding the truth. This is only one aspect of right-division..

    Consider for example, Paul had two ministries, (Act 26:16) The second began in prison at Rome, and is witnessed in the epistles Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Timothy and Titus.

    'But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
    for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
    to make thee a minister
    and a witness
    * both of these things which thou hast seen,
    * and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; ... '

    Unless we distinguish between one and the other we could find ourselves made blind to their distinctive nature, by lumping them both together. Doing despite to the truth of both.

    Thank you, Samuels,
    In Christ Jesus
  18. Amen Brother,
    Let's look at the scripture you brought up slaves and masters.
    Employers and Employees
    Church Staff and Church members
    Here is one.....The Father and Us.

    I have no use for this move in the body of Christ that says this was for them and this for us and so forth.

    Rightly divide is learning how His word fits and works together.
    When one chooses what they will obey and what they throw out then
    they end up with wholes or empty places where God is missing.

    God showed me like this.
    He used these giant children's puzzle pieces which were labeled with His commands and word and different books of the bible and so forth. Every piece had a part of His written word on it.

    He showed me that if we simply take His word and believe it and apply it to our lives then it was a solid strong piece all joined together and He was in it all.

    When you dismiss this and throw this out then the piece looked like a fan grill full of wholes and those wholes were where He was not.

    He showed me how this is what our spirit man reflects. Big heads and little bodies or full developed strong bodies.

    That settled it right then and there.
    I will not give ear to dates and way to thought out reasoning to why it can't be for us......But I will simply believe and accept His word and allow the Holy Spirit to connect the pieces and build me strong.

    So my friend I also believe His word is All and All for us this day
    Thank you and have a blessed week
    Cturtle likes this.
  19. As I have prayed about this a long time I thought I would share the Scriptures God has given me to back up what you are saying

    God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children, ” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ.
    Galatians 3:16 NLT

    For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes. There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.
    Galatians 3:26‭-‬29 NLT

    The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.
    Galatians 3:7 NLT

    And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.
    Romans 8:17 NLT

    So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.
    Romans 4:16 NLT

    And if the Gentiles obey God’s law, won’t God declare them to be his own people? In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God’s law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God’s law but don’t obey it. For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by the Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.
    Romans 2:26‭-‬29 NLT

    But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree.
    Romans 11:17 NLT

    But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For, “Who can know the Lord ’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?” But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.
    1 Corinthians 2:10‭-‬16 NLT

    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  20. #40 Complete, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
    * Just what does it mean to be born again?

    Hello there,

    I praise God that by His grace He has begotten us into a living hope, in Christ.

    The words, 'In Christ' - expressing the 'Ground' and 'Means' of our new birth, by the will of the Father, and the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Whatever our differing understanding regarding other matters, we have to be of one mind in this, that Christ is all and in all.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    Thank you all for your participation in this thread. In which you were called upon to write your thoughts concerning the words, 'born again', and their meaning, to those to whom spoken and to us for whom they are recorded.

    Praise God for His mercy and His grace!

    In Christ Jesus
    Our risen and glorified
    Saviour, Lord and Head.
    Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.

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