JONAH......"Alive or Dead"

Major said:
Just as did Jesus, Jonah died to rise again. I appreciate the work you put into your responses. I call your attention to this fact.

Jonah's words, "yet you caused my life to rise up [ 'alah] from death [ shachath ]" are very emphatic of death and resurrection. The Hebrew word 'alah here for "brought up" means "to rise up," or "to shoot forth" as in a plant germinating from a seed.

Now allow me to ask you this question. In Luke 24 and 1 Corinthians are two very similar phrases which are......"According to the Scriptures"

Luke 24:45-46........
"Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead."

1 Corth. 15:3-4.........
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.".

Now then......what were the Scriptures' that Luke and Paul referred to if they were not the picture drawn in the book of Jonah????

It could be Hosea 6:1-3........
"Come, let us return to the Lord. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds.
2. After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence. 3. Let us acknowledge the Lord; let us press on to acknowledge him."

Jonah 1:17
17And the Lord appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights."

Are there any other Old Test. Scriptures that Luke and Paul could be talking about????

The only "one" Jesus referred to was Jonah in Matthew 12:40, Jesus referred to Jonah being “three days and three nights in the whale’s belly".
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The Spirit of Christ used Jonah a Jew in that three day work of restoration/ redemption. Three days with three denoting the end of a matter or the restoration is complete. Three days is used throughout the bible to speak of restoration besides Jonas and Jesus in other parables.

Genesis 40:13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler.

Three days to restore

Exodus 5:3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the Lord our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.

Genesis 22: Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Numbers 10:33 And they departed from the mount of the Lord three days' journey: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord went before them in the three days' journey, to search out a resting place for them.

The Spirit of restoration

1 Samuel 30:12 And they gave him a piece of a cake of figs, and two clusters of raisins: and when he had eaten, his spirit came again to him: for he had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights

John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

81 times three days , 51 times third day in the same way to represent the end of the matter resotation, resurection .

Numbers 19:12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.

In other words no restoration third day, then the work is not perfect or complete on the seventh day
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Major;

Thank you for sharing this great Book. Though the book of Jonah has only 4 chapters, God teaches His servant, and all of us, valuable lessons of Jonah's rebellion, the sins of Nineveh, Jonah's assignment followed by God's mercy and grace, not to mention His patience in the final chapter.

I have been challenged by some seasoned Christians that the book of Jonah is a "myth with a moral story." Though I can respect their view, I can also pose my view with the question, if it's in the Bible, then it has to be the authorized true Word of God.

Still, when Christians (the ones who have challenged me) view Jonah as a myth, then it's hard to get past Jonah in the belly of a huge fish, by overlooking the lessons God is teaching and, the significance of Jesus saying, "the only sign they would receive was the sign of Jonah."

Jonah had an attitude, predicting what God was going to do, anyway, so why should he obey? He was about to find out.

Matthew 12:39-41, 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 16:4, 4 An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.

When I read Jonah 1:17, he was swallowed by the huge fish, died and later rose again. But prior to Jonah’s death, he appeals to God in Jonah 2:1-10: “From the depths of the grave I called for help.”

The use of the Hebrew Sheol, or Sela in Greek, is the meaning for permanent death, meaning that Jonah actually died.

When we read “the depths of the grave,” as a metaphor or poetic phrase, one could easily interpret this as an agonizing or horrifying experience.

Truth is, Jesus referred to the sign of Jonah meaning Jesus would be put to death and delivered after 3 days.

One other thought. Jonah lifts up one of the most beautiful prayers in verses 2:1-10 to God prior to His death. Jesus lifts short but beautiful prayers to God prior to His death,

Matthew 27:46, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mark 15:33, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Luke 23:46, 46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.
John 19:30, 30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
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I would agree but differ how death is defined or used . Not prior to death but as he suffered the wages of death, dying leading towards or unto death never to rise to new life.

We are living in a body of death no power to hear and do the will of God . It is this body that is delivered over to new spirit never ending life .We start out dead in our trasasses and sin . Surfered the wage of hell unto death not actual dead . As sons of God what we are it is not known what we wil be when we receive the propmise in the incorrupted.

Romans 7:24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This death the temporal living suffering .

I think in that way the father of lies would say; "you shall surely not die" putting all the emphasize on the corrupted creation the temporal what the lust of the eyes see,.working with the lust of the flesh producing false pride.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
Garee said:
I would agree but differ how death is defined or used . Not prior to death but as he suffered the wages of death, dying leading towards or unto death never to rise to new life.
We are living in a body of death no power to hear and do the will of God . It is this body that is delivered over to new spirit never ending life .We start out dead in our trasasses and sin . Surfered the wage of hell unto death not actual dead . As sons of God what we are it is not known what we wil be when we receive the propmise in the incorrupted.
Click to expand...

Hello Garee;

That is interesting how death in the Scriptures is defined or used and Jesus comes to mind.

Please elaborate defined and used regarding Jonah, and how would you hone in the teaching on his death?

God bless you, brother and your family.
 
Garee said:
The Spirit of Christ used Jonah a Jew in that three day work of restoration/ redemption. Three days with three denoting the end of a matter or the restoration is complete. Three days is used throughout the bible to speak of restoration besides Jonas and Jesus in other parables.

Genesis 40:13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler.

Three days to restore

Exodus 5:3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the Lord our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.

Genesis 22: Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Numbers 10:33 And they departed from the mount of the Lord three days' journey: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord went before them in the three days' journey, to search out a resting place for them.

The Spirit of restoration

1 Samuel 30:12 And they gave him a piece of a cake of figs, and two clusters of raisins: and when he had eaten, his spirit came again to him: for he had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights

John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

81 times three days , 51 times third day in the same way to represent the end of the matter resotation, resurection .

Numbers 19:12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.

In other words no restoration third day, then the work is not perfect or complete on the seventh day
Click to expand...

Maybe????

But have you considered that the resurrection of Jesus after three days of death proved to Jesus’ opponents that He truly rose from the dead. Why? According to Jewish tradition, a person’s soul/spirit remained with his/her dead body for three days. After three days, the soul/spirit departed. If Jesus’ resurrection had occurred on the same day or even the next day, it would have been easier for His enemies to argue He had never truly died. Significantly, Jesus waited several days after Lazarus had died before He came to resurrect Lazarus so that no one could deny the miracle.

A second reason it was important for Jesus to be dead for three days was to fulfill biblical prophecy. Jesus personally claimed He would be dead three days (Matthew 12:40; 16:21; 27:63; John 2:19). Also, some point to Hosea 6:1–3 as a prophecy of the Messiah’s resurrection after three days: “Come, let us return to the LORD. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds. After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence. Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear; he will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth.” This may also be the passage Paul refers to in 1 Corinthians 15:4 that Jesus “was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Major;

Thank you for sharing this great Book. Though the book of Jonah has only 4 chapters, God teaches His servant, and all of us, valuable lessons of Jonah's rebellion, the sins of Nineveh, Jonah's assignment followed by God's mercy and grace, not to mention His patience in the final chapter.

I have been challenged by some seasoned Christians that the book of Jonah is a "myth with a moral story." Though I can respect their view, I can also pose my view with the question, if it's in the Bible, then it has to be the authorized true Word of God.

Still, when Christians (the ones who have challenged me) view Jonah as a myth, then it's hard to get past Jonah in the belly of a huge fish, by overlooking the lessons God is teaching and, the significance of Jesus saying, "the only sign they would receive was the sign of Jonah."

Jonah had an attitude, predicting what God was going to do, anyway, so why should he obey? He was about to find out.

Matthew 12:39-41, 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 16:4, 4 An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.

When I read Jonah 1:17, he was swallowed by the huge fish, died and later rose again. But prior to Jonah’s death, he appeals to God in Jonah 2:1-10: “From the depths of the grave I called for help.”

The use of the Hebrew Sheol, or Sela in Greek, is the meaning for permanent death, meaning that Jonah actually died.

When we read “the depths of the grave,” as a metaphor or poetic phrase, one could easily interpret this as an agonizing or horrifying experience.

Truth is, Jesus referred to the sign of Jonah meaning Jesus would be put to death and delivered after 3 days.

One other thought. Jonah lifts up one of the most beautiful prayers in verses 2:1-10 to God prior to His death. Jesus lifts short but beautiful prayers to God prior to His death,

Matthew 27:46, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mark 15:33, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Luke 23:46, 46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.
John 19:30, 30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Click to expand...

Isn't it interesting that Jonah got made at God because He know that God would do what He always does and that is to save people.

In His mercy, God saved Jonah from the storm with a ship. The He saved Jonah from the sea with a fish, Then He saved Johan from death in the fish by resurrection power.

And what did Jonah do.......sat under a gourd tree and waited for Nineveh to sin and be judged and want to die.

Then as I wrote this it occurred to me that Jonah "placed" himself in a position he should never have been in to begin with in the 1st place and then blamed God for doing what he knew God would do.

Then......he did not plant the gourd tree, or create the worm that ate it but loved the shade......but hated the people of Nivinah.

Hmmmm. That sounds a lot like a lot of people I know today.
 
Major said:
Maybe????

But have you considered that the resurrection of Jesus after three days of death proved to Jesus’ opponents that He truly rose from the dead. Why? According to Jewish tradition, a person’s soul/spirit remained with his/her dead body for three days. After three days, the soul/spirit departed. If Jesus’ resurrection had occurred on the same day or even the next day, it would have been easier for His enemies to argue He had never truly died. Significantly, Jesus waited several days after Lazarus had died before He came to resurrect Lazarus so that no one could deny the miracle.

A second reason it was important for Jesus to be dead for three days was to fulfill biblical prophecy. Jesus personally claimed He would be dead three days (Matthew 12:40; 16:21; 27:63; John 2:19). Also, some point to Hosea 6:1–3 as a prophecy of the Messiah’s resurrection after three days: “Come, let us return to the LORD. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds. After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence. Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear; he will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth.” This may also be the passage Paul refers to in 1 Corinthians 15:4 that Jesus “was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”
Click to expand...
Yes I have taken that into consideration Three days it would seem to denote the end of the matter or restorartion .Four days with lazarus would seem to represent universal suffering , north ,south east and west . In the case of lazarus the belivers are to remove the grave clorthes . Unlike Jeus the father having completed that three day work of resurection .

In that way the unseen witness of God (3) and the witness of men seen (4)

.The witness of God. Three days the greater unseen witness of faith .

Literal death never to rise as in tolally corrupted is not the point. Resurectied while dying and crying out for strength to finish the work of two. A living sacrifice of those dead in thier trespases and sin .They have the living work of the Spirit working in them but not of them in any way shape or form.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Major;

Thank you for sharing this great Book. Though the book of Jonah has only 4 chapters, God teaches His servant, and all of us, valuable lessons of Jonah's rebellion, the sins of Nineveh, Jonah's assignment followed by God's mercy and grace, not to mention His patience in the final chapter.

I have been challenged by some seasoned Christians that the book of Jonah is a "myth with a moral story." Though I can respect their view, I can also pose my view with the question, if it's in the Bible, then it has to be the authorized true Word of God.

Still, when Christians (the ones who have challenged me) view Jonah as a myth, then it's hard to get past Jonah in the belly of a huge fish, by overlooking the lessons God is teaching and, the significance of Jesus saying, "the only sign they would receive was the sign of Jonah."

Jonah had an attitude, predicting what God was going to do, anyway, so why should he obey? He was about to find out.

Matthew 12:39-41, 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 16:4, 4 An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.

When I read Jonah 1:17, he was swallowed by the huge fish, died and later rose again. But prior to Jonah’s death, he appeals to God in Jonah 2:1-10: “From the depths of the grave I called for help.”

The use of the Hebrew Sheol, or Sela in Greek, is the meaning for permanent death, meaning that Jonah actually died.

When we read “the depths of the grave,” as a metaphor or poetic phrase, one could easily interpret this as an agonizing or horrifying experience.

Truth is, Jesus referred to the sign of Jonah meaning Jesus would be put to death and delivered after 3 days.

One other thought. Jonah lifts up one of the most beautiful prayers in verses 2:1-10 to God prior to His death. Jesus lifts short but beautiful prayers to God prior to His death,

Matthew 27:46, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mark 15:33, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Luke 23:46, 46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.
John 19:30, 30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Click to expand...
I agree, Bob. Even in the book of Jonah there is a description of what Hell is like. It was as if God showed Jonah what Hell is like so that he would take it serious how important it was to go warn Nineveh.

Jonah 2:1-9 (NASB):

“I called out of my distress to the Lord,
And He answered me.
I called for help from the depth of Sheol;
You heard my voice.
3 For You threw me into the deep,
Into the heart of the seas,
And the current flowed around me.
All Your breakers and waves passed over me.
4 So I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight.
Nevertheless I will look again toward Your holy temple.’
5 Water encompassed me to the point of death.
The deep flowed around me,
Seaweed was wrapped around my head.
6 I descended to the base of the mountains.
The earth with its bars was around me forever,
But You have brought up my life from the pit, Lord my God.
7 While I was fainting away,
I remembered the Lord,
And my prayer came to You,
Into Your holy temple.
8 Those who are followers of worthless idols
Abandon their faithfulness,
9 But I will sacrifice to You
With a voice of thanksgiving.
That which I have vowed I will pay.
Salvation is from the Lord.”
 
Nazarene Servant said:
I agree, Bob. Even in the book of Jonah there is a description of what Hell is like. It was as if God showed Jonah what Hell is like so that he would take it serious how important it was to go warn Nineveh.

Jonah 2:1-9 (NASB):

“I called out of my distress to the Lord,
And He answered me.
I called for help from the depth of Sheol;
You heard my voice.
3 For You threw me into the deep,
Into the heart of the seas,
And the current flowed around me.
All Your breakers and waves passed over me.
4 So I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight.
Nevertheless I will look again toward Your holy temple.’
5 Water encompassed me to the point of death.
The deep flowed around me,
Seaweed was wrapped around my head.
6 I descended to the base of the mountains.
The earth with its bars was around me forever,
But You have brought up my life from the pit, Lord my God.
7 While I was fainting away,
I remembered the Lord,
And my prayer came to You,
Into Your holy temple.
8 Those who are followers of worthless idols
Abandon their faithfulness,
9 But I will sacrifice to You
With a voice of thanksgiving.
That which I have vowed I will pay.
Salvation is from the Lord.”
Click to expand...

Hello Nazarene Servant;

I have heard Christian humor how many of us are like Jonah. lol! Jonah reminds me of the many times God called me to go or do as He instructs, and how I attempted to go "hide in a boat". I can see God shaking His head. Do I really think God is not going to find me? Sooner or later He will get His way with me.

Question is, will I submit in obedience to Him?

God bless you, brother and your family.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Nazarene Servant;

I have heard Christian humor how many of us are like Jonah. lol! Jonah reminds me of the many times God called me to go or do as He instructs, and how I attempted to go "hide in a boat". I can see God shaking His head. Do I really think God is not going to find me? Sooner or later He will get His way with me.

Question is, will I submit in obedience to Him?

God bless you, brother and your family.
Click to expand...
LOL, been there too many times, Bob, too many.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Nazarene Servant;

I have heard Christian humor how many of us are like Jonah. lol! Jonah reminds me of the many times God called me to go or do as He instructs, and how I attempted to go "hide in a boat". I can see God shaking His head. Do I really think God is not going to find me? Sooner or later He will get His way with me.

Question is, will I submit in obedience to Him?

God bless you, brother and your family.
Click to expand...

Now here is another point that is usually overlooked.

When Jonah was thrown up out of the belly of the fish.......I imagine that he was a sight to behold.
He was in the stomach acid of a fish big enough to swallow him. The stomach acid would probaly have removed his hair, and made his skin a sickly looking white color.

I do not think that he would have had any trouble drawing a crowd so as to listen to what God told him to say and we know from the last chapter of the book.......Everyone including the animals got saved.


Occam's Razor,...
"One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything."
 
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