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Is There No Longer Wisdom?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SueJLove, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Thursday, July 31, 2014, 4:21 a.m. – the Lord Jesus put this song in mind:

    Tell Me the Story of Jesus / Fanny J. Crosby / John R. Sweney

    Tell me the story of Jesus,
    Write on my heart every word;
    Tell me the story most precious,
    Sweetest that ever was heard…

    Tell of the cross where they nailed Him,
    Writhing in anguish and pain;
    Tell of the grave where they laid Him,
    Tell how He liveth again.
    Love in that story so tender,
    Clearer than ever I see;
    Stay, let me weep while you whisper,
    “Love paid the ransom for me.”

    Speak, Lord, for your servant is listening. I read Jeremiah 49:7-22 (NIV).

    Has Counsel Perished?

    This is what the Lord Almighty says:

    Is there no longer wisdom in Teman?
    Has counsel perished from the prudent?
    Has their wisdom decayed?
    ~ v. 7​

    The Lord Jesus gave me an interesting picture of what this passage is saying here, in all practicality and application to our world today. He gave me a picture of our modern-day internet and cloud computing. The internet is a vast source of knowledge. You can Google just about anything, and there is an article about it somewhere, or someone has blogged about it, or there has been a discussion on that topic on social media sites or on public discussion sites. The various news sites are also loaded with all kinds of information, as well as we have Wikipedia and various other encyclopedia and dictionary resources. If someone has ever asked your question, there should be a record of it out there somewhere, and you can learn how that question was answered. So, we are certainly not lacking in knowledge or in information resources in our day and time. They are at our fingertips, literally.

    Yet, the question is asked here if wisdom and counsel have perished and/or decayed, and if they no longer exist. You see, there is a big difference between information and wisdom, just as there is a vast difference between Google and godly counsel. We may take into our minds a vast array of information via the internet, and we may even retain it as knowledge, but involved with wisdom is experience, common sense, good judgment, discernment, and prudence (forethought, caution and discretion). That is what is lacking, and the lack of it is seriously astounding in our day and age. So many people, including so many Christians today just believe everything they see, hear and read, particularly everything that fits with their political bent, personal prejudices, religious upbringing, culture, heritage, etc. It is a sad reality how many Christians do not use prudence, good judgment or common sense, but they buy into whatever sounds good without even bothering to check it out to see if it even makes sense, or if it is the truth, or even if it directly defies the teachings of scripture.

    Take the news media, for example. How many people just believe what they read, hear or see in the news, or on talk radio, or talk TV shows, et al, without ever questioning if it is real (not fake), if it is true, if it makes sense, or particularly if it even agrees with scripture? I am sad to say that my experience has been that the vast majority don’t ask questions, they don’t bother to check it out, but they just accept that it is real and that it is true because they heard it, read it, or particularly if they saw it (on TV or on the Internet) with their eyes. Hollywood can make things look very real that are totally fake. The Bible warns us of a time of great deception. It says that false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. So, why do we seem to think that we are beyond being deceived? Why are so many so gullible as to believe everything they see and hear, when the Bible warns us about deception, and it cautions us to be discerning, and to exercise wisdom, and to test everything?

    I see so many today who have been confronted with the reality of why they should not just believe everything they hear, read, or see, and they have been challenged with the knowledge that there is so much deception going on in the world around them. They are being cautioned to use good judgment and discernment, and they are even being presented with evidence to the contrary to what they now hold to be truth and fact. And yet I see so many of them just close their minds, hearts and ears to that reality, and they literally refuse to even consider that they might be buying into a lie, even to the point to where they may attack you if you even try to suggest that what they are believing may, in fact, be a very clever lie and deception, and that what they perceive to be real may be totally fake. And, that is what concerns me the most, that they won’t even listen to wise counsel, and they won’t even look at the evidence and consider that just maybe they might be wrong. It is so unwise of us to be so easily persuaded about some things without checking them out, and then to turn around and refuse to listen to the voice of reason and to the word of truth.

    Uncovering What is Hidden

    Turn and flee, hide in deep caves,
    you who live in Dedan,
    for I will bring disaster on Esau
    at the time when I punish him…
    I will strip Esau bare;
    I will uncover his hiding places,
    so that he cannot conceal himself…
    This is what the Lord says: “If those who do not deserve to drink the cup must drink it, why should you go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, but must drink it…
    ~ vv. 8-12​

    The Lord has a time when he will visit this world of ours in judgment. Then he will expose all these lies and deceptions for what they are, and all will be revealed; all will be laid bare. There will be no more hiding and concealment of truth. I believe God will judge his adulterous church, too. I believe scripture teaches this, particularly in Isaiah and in Revelation, as well as in other books of the Bible. This is saying here that many innocents suffer because of the sins of others, so why should God’s people who are living in adultery against him, and who are following after the gods of this world, and their lies and deceptions, think they should somehow escape God’s hand of divine discipline when they won’t listen to God? So many in the church in America are holding on to the teaching of the pre-trib rapture, thinking that just because they are Christians that they can live however they want but that nothing bad will ever happen to them. That is pure arrogance.

    They Have Deceived You

    The terror you inspire
    and the pride of your heart have deceived you,
    you who live in the clefts of the rocks,
    who occupy the heights of the hill.
    Though you build your nest as high as the eagle’s,
    from there I will bring you down,”
    declares the Lord.
    “Edom will become an object of horror;
    all who pass by will be appalled and will scoff
    because of all its wounds.
    As Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown,
    along with their neighboring towns,”
    says the Lord,
    “so no one will live there;
    no people will dwell in it…
    Look! An eagle will soar and swoop down,
    spreading its wings over Bozrah.
    In that day the hearts of Edom’s warriors
    will be like the heart of a woman in labor.

    The Lord Jesus gave me a picture here of those who occupy the heights of the hill and who build their nest as high as the eagle’s as those who run and operate “The Internet.” The United States of America has had the control of the Internet since its inception, I believe. Purportedly the internet was scheduled to be turned over to ICANN, yet other sources say that the U.S. isn’t giving up its control. It would appear that the internet is now being controlled by “The Cloud,” alias the New World Order, depending on what source you read. I see a lot of dangers with the Cloud. So many people trust all their private and even financial and business information to Cloud Computing, again another area where I believe we need to exercise much discernment, common sense and reason and good judgment, and I don’t believe that is being done much. Do we really think we can give all our information to this global giant in the sky and that it won’t be stolen, traded, sold to the highest bidder or otherwise used against us in some way? When we do this, we are giving up our own privacy and personal control over our own information, and that is unwise and dangerous.

    Bottom Line

    So, what is the bottom line here? I believe it is that too many Christians, myself included, have for too long been too trusting, too naïve, and too gullible concerning what they give out and what they take in, and it is going to come back and bite us. From this point on we need to exercise the godly wisdom and counsel of the Word of God, and of the Spirit within us, and even from those who are walking closely with the Lord Jesus, who walk in his ways and in his truth, and who are not caught up in the world’s system themselves. We need to stop believing everything we read, hear and see on TV, or in the news, or on Talk radio or TV or on the internet, and we need to stop trusting others with our private information thinking that nothing bad will happen to us, because it may. And, we need to begin to be in the practice of inquiring of our Lord Jesus about everything to make sure we are not falling prey to those who would “molest” (abuse; assault or otherwise take advantage of) us. And, we need to start to say “NO” to being taken advantage of by exercising prudence.

    Jesus Christ paid the ransom for our sins so that we could be free from the control of sin over our lives, and so that we would no longer be held in slavery to the control of Satan. Let’s make sure we don’t give up that freedom willingly through our own stupidity, because we failed to exercise the godly wisdom and counsel our Lord has provided for us.

    He Reached Down / An Original Work / February 3, 2014
    Based off Psalm 18

    How I love You, Lord,
    My Rock and my strength.
    My God is my fortress;
    I hide in Him.
    He is my shield and the horn of
    My salvation, whom I praise.
    I have found my refuge in Him.

    He reached down from heaven
    And rescued me;
    Drew me out of waters
    So deep, I’d sink.
    He delivered me from Satan
    And my slavery to sin;
    Gave me hope of heaven with Him.

    My God turned my darkness
    Into His light;
    Opened up my blinded eyes;
    Gave me sight.
    As for God, his way is perfect.
    He gives strength to stand secure.
    I have found my vict’ry in Him.

    My Lord lives!
    Praise be to my Savior God,
    Jesus Christ, who died
    On a cruel cross.
    He is my Rock and the source
    Of my salvation, whom I trust.
    I will give praise always to Him.

    Ghid likes this.
  2. My study group read a novel, Hyperion and the Fall of Hyperion. It is about a world in which the computers mostly run things, and they attempt to destroy the humans. It is marketed as two books, but the story makes no sense unless the reader reads both books. As near as I can tell, the book says nothing about how Christians might view this issue, and I don't know what Christians might do about it.

    I think that people began to think about this issue after the invention of steam locomotives and the electric telegraph. Karl Marx and Henry Adams had opinion.

    Other authors, Sinclair Lewis and Frank Norris wrote The Jungle and The Octopus about it without knowing that they were writing about it.

    I probably should not have an opinion. This is way above my pay grade.
  3. I am unfamiliar with those books and authors. I have heard of Karl Marx and I think I should probably know who Henry Adams is, but not off the top of my head. A lot of this cloud stuff is over my head, but I can grasp the basics.
  4. Well, I know next to nothing about any of them. I know that Simmons wrote Hyperion, which has a cult following. I know one of the senior English teachers at my school because my brothers had him when they studied English. When he saw that I was reading a copy of Hyperion, he said, "Oh, a little light reading." I could almost taste he sneer in his voice, which to me meant: Why do you bother with such trash?

    The advisor to my study group has a PhD in some kind of humanities. He asked us to read Simmon's book, so it must have some merit.

    I know very little about Upton Sinclair. He wrote The Jungle, and he was a candidate for Governor of California. I have not read anything by Marx or Adams, but I know that they were well known talking heads at the end of the nineteenth century. If they were alive today, they would be contributors to CNN. I did read The Octopus by Frank Norris. That is the only thing that I know about him.

    The subject matter of their books ties them together. They all wrote books about the consequences of the fact that the speed of the transfer of labor, goods, money, and information accelerates with time. In The Jungle, the principle characters are immigrants imported from Lithuania. During a strike, the companies import scabs from the Southern United States. In The Octopus, the farmers in California must compete with farmers around the nation because the railroad moves goods to and from anywhere. I have never tried to read Das Kapital, but as I understand the matter, it was Marx's attempt to make sense of the fact that the motion of goods, money, etc accelerates.

    I have never read anything by Adams, but I read an essay (maybe it was on the Fordam University website.), which mentioned how Marx and Adams had opinions about the consequences of the accelerating movement of goods. Marx saw it as a positive thing because he thought it would destroy capitalism. Adams was more pessimistic. In Simmon's book the ability to move has accelerated to the point that people may have a living room in one star system and a dining room in another star system. Well okay, it is science fiction.

    Mostly, I just wanted to point out that technology has accelerated the movement of goods, information, etc since a CroMagnion made the first chisel, and that people have debated the consequences since the invention of the electric telegraph.

    Did you write the poem at the end of your first post?
  5. Thank you for taking the time to explain these things to me more in depth. The subject matter is not sinking in to my brain. Sorry. What consequences have been debated?

    Concerning the poem (song), the Lord Jesus gave me that to write. He gives me a tune in my head and then he gives me words to the tune. So, yes I wrote it, but the words come from the Lord and from his word. All glory to God.
  6. Sue....
    I gotta admit...
    I weep often for the Church....
    We are SO self righteous... So caught up in our own importance... Our own glory...

    Instead of being IN the world and not Of the world.... We are OUT of the world - but completely OF the world....

    Instead of being Overjoyed that our Liberty in Christ opened up MYRIAD ministry opportunities that were Illegal to the Jews.... EITHER we decided that Christ had made some sort of mistake - and want to go back under the Law.... OR.. We live lives of Hedonism hiding under "Grace not Works"....

    We are SO easily deceived... So easily lead astray.... So easily tricked into doing EXACTLY the Opposite of what Christ said to do....

    The only single thing is...
    The Promise....
    I will Never leave you or forsake you....
    That "The work of God is for you to believe in Him whom He sent".....

    That Belief in Jesus the Messiah of God
    Love of God
    which builds
    Obedience to God
    which produces
    A desire to LIVE for God
    which results in
    "Write your law on my heart"
    which produces
    Fruit of the Spirit....
    SueJLove likes this.
  7. Thank you for sharing all of this. Good stuff!
  8. You asked me a question about the acceleration of the movement of goods and money. I’m not ignoring the question. I just want to ask something else first. I want to ask about the first thing that attracted me to your posting, which is the quote from Jeremiah 49.

    It is like so totally cool that you try to put this thing, wisdom, on a table to watch it wiggle. I wonder how often people say wisdom when they mean something else. For example, I said acceleration of the movement of money and goods, which is what I call globalization, a word, that has dozens of meanings.

    Also, I want to ask about Jeremiah 49. It does mention wisdom, in the sense of, “What are you doing? Have you lost your mind?” However, It is more about battle cry, call to arms, and predictions of disaster then it is about wisdom. Or maybe I miss the point.
  9. You said..........
    "I see so many today who have been confronted with the reality of why they should not just believe everything they hear, read, or see, and they have been challenged with the knowledge that there is so much deception going on in the world around them. They are being cautioned to use good judgment and discernment, and they are even being presented with evidence to the contrary to what they now hold to be truth and fact. And yet I see so many of them just close their minds, hearts and ears to that reality, and they literally refuse to even consider that they might be buying into a lie, even to the point to where they may attack you if you even try to suggest that what they are believing may, in fact, be a very clever lie and deception, and that what they perceive to be real may be totally fake. And, that is what concerns me the most, that they won’t even listen to wise counsel, and they won’t even look at the evidence and consider that just maybe they might be wrong."

    Absolutely correct. Right here on this web site, over and over people are shown the error of there thinking but to no avail!


    I think it is because people LIKE what they know and even though what they know might be wrong, they do not want to learn the truth of that subject. It is called "Comfortability".

    We like what we know because it does not require any more effort to learn the real truth. IMO that is why we see so many goofy theological
    conflicts over things like the Rapture, or Preterits ideas and the church has replaced Israel.
    God is Love and Silk say Amen and like this.
  10. I believe the point of this passage is that wisdom has perished from the land and deception now rules in its place and that is the reason for the battle cry, and the reason for the disaster. Yet, historically speaking, God's reasons for bringing judgment were usually to bring people to their senses so they would have their eyes and ears opened and so they would be spiritually awakened. I believe we live in a time of great deception. I believe we have a great deal of knowledge but that wisdom and prudence are vanishing. And I do believe God will judge in order to spiritually awaken the people of this earth.
  11. Major, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
  12. #12 CCW95A, Aug 4, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
    There is the "Wisdom" of this world which is only sensual, which cause envying, and strife. It is Devilish, it causes confusion and every evil work. James 3:15 Then there is the "Wisdom" that comes from God, which is first "pure" it never compromises the Word no matter what the cost. It is peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy, and good fruits, without partiality and with hypocrisy. James 3:17 These are also known as "the children of Wisdom", and everyone who has the Wisdom of God also enjoy the company of her children.
    The Wisdom of this world think the Wisdom of God is foolishness, because it can see how they came up with such understanding, it defies logic, and reason. God calls the Wisdom of this world foolish. Those who are mature in Christ hear the Wisdom of God and those who are do not accept it. We can not mix the Wisdom of this world with the Wisdom of God, they are not compatible with each other. They cause wood, hay and stubble to be built on the true foundation which will be burned up by fire. Wisdom from God is the true gold, silver, and precious stones that are eternal.

    The Lord gives Wisdom, out of his mouth come knowledge and understanding. Wisdom rests in the heart of the man who has understanding. Wisdom is non transferable from one man to another, just like salvation is a personal thing. nobody can go get it for you, you have to receive it yourself.

    We speak Wisdom among them that are mature, yet not the Wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world that come to nought.
    We speak the wisdom of the God in a mystery, even the hidden Wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our Glory.
    1 Cor 2:6 - 7
    Major and SueJLove say Amen and like this.
  13. Oh, I see. That makes sense. I suppose that maybe you are right about people being less wise, but I don't know how anyone would measure wisdom to know if people are less wise.
  14. You measure it by the Word of God mainly. Disobedience is unwise. Sin is unwise. Refusing to listen to what the word teaches and going our own stubborn way is unwise. Any time we don't heed the warnings of scripture, and we decide we know what is best for ourselves, that is unwise. When we go against what the Word instructs, that is unwise.
    CCW95A and Major say Amen and like this.
  15. Thank you for sharing all of this. Good stuff!
  16. Yes, that is the criteria for measurement. I think you said it better than I would.

    How will you know if people in 1850 are wiser than people in 1950? Will you count the number of disobedient and sinful people?
  17. This quote from Jeremiah,

    Is there no longer wisdom in Teman?
    Has counsel perished from the prudent?
    Has their wisdom decayed?
    ~ v. 7

    has two ideas about wisdom.

    "Is there no longer wisdom," suggests that wisdom works like a light switch. It is either on or off. Either yah got it or yah don't.

    "Has their wisdom decayed," suggests that wisdom is like a water fawuet. It can very between no flow, to maximum flow, or anything between. It can be a little wisdom, an average wisdom, or a maximum wisdom.
  18. The word decay means: "deterioration; rotting; corrosion; decline; degenerate; dwindle; decompose; perish; or corrode." Degenerate means immoral; corrupt; perverted; wicked; or reprobate." Rot can mean: "Nonsense; poppycock; rubbish." So wisdom decaying could mean a decline or it could mean that wisdom has become immoral, corrupt, or perverted or that it has become nonsense, poppycock or rubbish. Since this is speaking of wisdom, it could be the picture that it is dying out slowly or that it is not true wisdom but is the wisdom of this world instead. True wisdom is all but dead, in other words, and it is being replaced with poppycock and corruption of truth.

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

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