Is Killing In A War Murder?

Major

Major

Supporter
NO---It is not!

Throughout the Bible, warfare is presented as a grim reality in a cursed world. There are forces of evil that must be stopped, and bloodshed is sometimes the result. Whether a Christian should serve in the military is a matter of one’s own conscience, but killing an armed combatant in the context of warfare is not sin. "There is a time and season for everything, including war" (Ecclesiastes 3:8).
 
Hello Major;

I have a question and am open to discussion. In Ecclesiastes 3:8 Solomon was pointing to Godly leaders who seek what God said about "time" for war and when it was necessary to fight.

When the enemy's motives dishonor God, oppress and terrorize people, their children, stealing their peace, starving them, etc...God would give the command to attack the enemy as He went ahead of them.

Your thoughts?
 
I agree.
Some people think the verse below means we should never go to war. But I don’t think it means that. Because there will always be wars until the end Jesus said. Rather I think
It’s about those who go out to war for shear thuggery like football hooligans do.

Matthew 26:52 ESV​


52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
 
What seems right or even holy in man's eyes is not necessarily what God values.

When it comes to war consider:

After Egypt, Israel took the Sinai through conquest.
When they fought the Philistenes, they were to kill even the 'innocent' babies.
Christ will return at the head of an army. Blood will flow.

Some of the most problematic episodes in history were done in the name of peace (remember Neville Chamberlain declaring "peace in our time" after making the Munich agreement with Adolf Hitler, which gave Him cover to prepare for WWII).
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Major;

I have a question and am open to discussion. In Ecclesiastes 3:8 Solomon was pointing to Godly leaders who seek what God said about "time" for war and when it was necessary to fight.

When the enemy's motives dishonor God, oppress and terrorize people, their children, stealing their peace, starving them, etc...God would give the command to attack the enemy as He went ahead of them.

Your thoughts?
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My thought is that God does not take delight in the deaths of anyone including the wicked. However, From the very beginning we see that in the ancient past, God viewed warfare as a legitimate means of bringing an end to various forms of oppression and wickedness.

It was God who told the ancient Israelites to possess the Promised Land; in fact, just before the conquest, the Lord appeared to Joshua as “commander of the army of the Lord”—a man of war in Joshua 5:14.

It was God who laid out the battle plans for the fight against Ai in Joshua 8:1-2.

It was God who told King Saul to “go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them” 1 Samuel 15:3.

King David defeated the Philistines by following God’s strategy concerning the battle in 2 Sam. 5:23-25.

God never tells people to sin, so the Israelites who followed God’s commands to wage war were not sinning. Killing in war cannot be equated with murder.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Major;

I have a question and am open to discussion. In Ecclesiastes 3:8 Solomon was pointing to Godly leaders who seek what God said about "time" for war and when it was necessary to fight.

When the enemy's motives dishonor God, oppress and terrorize people, their children, stealing their peace, starving them, etc...God would give the command to attack the enemy as He went ahead of them.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
I would say that there are many wars mentioned in the Bible. Wars of conquest (Joshua 1:6), civil wars (2 Samuel 3:1), and even a war in heaven (Revelation 12:7). Of course, wars involve killing; there is no way around it. We know that murder is sin, But what about the killing of an enemy combatant during wartime?

First, we know that not all killing in wartime is a sin because there have been times when God Himself commanded battles to be fought.

God told the ancient Israelites to possess the Promised Land; in fact, just before the conquest, the Lord appeared to Joshua as “commander of the army of the Lord”—a man of war in Joshua 5:14.

God laid out the battle plans for the fight against Ai Joshua 8:1–2.

God told King Saul to “go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them” in 1 Samuel 15:3.

King David defeated the Philistines by following God’s strategy concerning the battle in 2 Samuel 5:23–25.

God never tells people to sin, so the Israelites who followed God’s commands to wage war were not sinning. Killing in war cannot be equated with murder.
 
It depends on the legitimacy of the conflict, and I'd say it often is murder. There's some amelioration of guilt if they were forced into fighting by threat of prison or death. In most wars the political authorities on both sides are usually in the wrong, and the victims are those forced to pay for it, conscripted and having their lives disrupted to satisfy the sinful desires of war mongers.
 
One of the memorable sermons I have heard was from when I was a young airman living on Ft Myer, Va.

To give some context, the US had recently come out of the Vietnam War. That war produced some of the strongest protests in our history. The Military and soldiers of all branches were often jeered when we traveled in uniform. Several times I went to work with protesters that chained themselves around the posts in the Pentagon Concourse. The Washington Navy Yard was often another target. Bomb threats there were too often real. -- The Officers Club there had less stringent security.

Against this background the Post Chaplain presented a sermon -- Matthew 5:9 - “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" as the text.

The main discussion point was that Jesus did not say Blessed are the peace lovers who sit back and decry war from afar, but specifically identified those that shoulder the burden of making that peace.

Sometimes peacemakers are the statesmen that forge durable agreements among men, but sometimes the peacemakers are the ones risking themselves on the battle field.

It is seldom in today's world that a meaningful peace is established by the statesmen without the use or threat of the soldiers.

Many of the protestors who chained themselves to impeded access to military establishments and those who repetitively blew up the O-club on the Washington Navy Yard consider themselves peace makers, but many were truly just peace lovers who did not wish to pay the price of the peace they 'loved'.
 
Jeltja said:
It depends on the legitimacy of the conflict, and I'd say it often is murder. There's some amelioration of guilt if they were forced into fighting by threat of prison or death. In most wars the political authorities on both sides are usually in the wrong, and the victims are those forced to pay for it, conscripted and having their lives disrupted to satisfy the sinful desires of war mongers.
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Back in the midst of the Vietnam War, many (not all) warriors were given exemptions from the draft based on their moral or religious objections to war.

But it was explicitly made clear that their objection needed to be against ALL war, not any specific war.

So the individual had no legal right to judge his sovereign nation's motives outside of the normal political discourse (voting, petitioning, etc).

If one has a strong enough conviction, he should be willing to suffer whatever the law provides for defying its sovereignty.
 
Siloam said:
One of the memorable sermons I have heard was from when I was a young airman living on Ft Myer, Va.

To give some context, the US had recently come out of the Vietnam War. That war produced some of the strongest protests in our history. The Military and soldiers of all branches were often jeered when we traveled in uniform. Several times I went to work with protesters that chained themselves around the posts in the Pentagon Concourse. The Washington Navy Yard was often another target. Bomb threats there were too often real. -- The Officers Club there had less stringent security.

Against this background the Post Chaplain presented a sermon -- Matthew 5:9 - “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" as the text.

The main discussion point was that Jesus did not say Blessed are the peace lovers who sit back and decry war from afar, but specifically identified those that shoulder the burden of making that peace.

Sometimes peacemakers are the statesmen that forge durable agreements among men, but sometimes the peacemakers are the ones risking themselves on the battle field.

It is seldom in today's world that a meaningful peace is established by the statesmen without the use or threat of the soldiers.

Many of the protestors who chained themselves to impeded access to military establishments and those who repetitively blew up the O-club on the Washington Navy Yard consider themselves peace makers, but many were truly just peace lovers who did not wish to pay the price of the peace they 'loved'.
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O yes........i remember those days well! "Baby Killers" were shouted at us when we came off the plane!

If it wasnt for the warriors that went to war for the USA, there would be no USA........or New Zealand.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Killing in war is not murder. Just the same, you are responsible for your actions.
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You're absolutely correct! Every American soldier, sailor, marine, and airman is required to be taught the Laws of Armed Conflict in order to avoid war crimes and if war crimes occur, they’re taught to whom they must report the crimes to start the prosecution process.
 
BibleLover said:
You're absolutely correct! Every American soldier, sailor, marine, and airman is required to be taught the Laws of Armed Conflict in order to avoid war crimes and if war crimes occur, they’re taught to whom they must report the crimes to start the prosecution process.
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Yes, but this is not the kind of responsibility I was referring to. I was thinking of the moment when one's soul stands before the Lord and is asked the simple question: why did you kill that person?
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Yes, but this is not the kind of responsibility I was referring to. I was thinking of the moment when one's soul stands before the Lord and is asked the simple question: why did you kill that person?
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Read the do not kill commandment in Hebrew. It says "do not MURDER".

God has sanctioned certain kinds of homicide since the time of Noah when he first sanctioned capital punishment. The same goes for war. He commanded the Israelites to conquer Canaan which certainly involved the war crime of massacring innocent non-combatants. If you think today's collateral deaths are numerous, remember, God commanded the Israelites to massacre every human being, regardless of sex or age, wherever they fought in Canaan. As for the responsibility before God for killing enemy soldiers, it's doubtful that God will condemn any Allied soldier who killed German soldiers to free Jewish concentration camp victims.
 
When a nation goes to war the state assumes the responsibility for bloodshed. When a man kills another, that man is held responsible.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Yes, but this is not the kind of responsibility I was referring to. I was thinking of the moment when one's soul stands before the Lord and is asked the simple question: why did you kill that person?
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He will respond that he was being obedient to his country who placed him in that position.

He is not guilty before God as God ordained war for his purposes.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Killing in war is not murder. Just the same, you are responsible for your actions.
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Actually brother, the New Testament does not condemn the vocation of a soldier if the work is carried out in a responsible and lawful fashion.
Now, what you are specifically talking about is the modus operandi or conduct of an individual in a War setting.

War must have limited ends only sufficient to repel aggression and redress its injustice. The means must be limited by proportionality to the offence. Non-combatant immunity from intentional and direct attack must be respected. Combat should not be prolonged when there is no reasonable hope of success within these limits.

In country boy English, during a War situation, if a man rapes a woman in a War, he is guilty of RAPE. If she dies from that RAPE he is guilty of MURDER!
 
Major said:
Actually brother, the New Testament does not condemn the vocation of a soldier if the work is carried out in a responsible and lawful fashion.
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Major said:
He is not guilty before God as God ordained war for his purposes.
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Agreed, but this is not what I meant.

Every action we take in this life, for good or ill, affects us. Just as soldiers sometimes return home with PTSD having witnessed or even engaged in horrific acts, our souls likewise return home with the after-effects of this life. Taking a life, even when fully legal and morally justified, has consequences that must be addressed. I don't mean to say God judges the soldier as much as God reconciles the soldier's life as part of the death transition process.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Agreed, but this is not what I meant. Every action we take in this life, for good or ill, affects us. Just as soldiers sometimes return home with PTSD having witnessed or even engaged in horrific acts, our souls likewise return home with the after-effects of this life. Taking a life, even when fully legal and morally justified, has consequences that must be addressed. I don't mean to say God judges the soldier as much as God reconciles the soldier's life as part of the death transition process.
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Hello LearningToLetGo;

I have thought about this in my own life. I registered for the draft back in 1975 when I turned 18. But had I gone to war and killed the enemy in battle, even one, it would have stayed with me for the rest of my life. What kind of person was this enemy?

What kind of life did he/she have? What would be the reaction of this enemy's parents or family when they learned he/she had been killed...by me?

Perhaps a soldier is suppose to get past this in war but I can't help but think of this, and I have from time to time. Aside from the topic at hand, what you posted does sink in with me.

God bless you, Jason, and your family.
 
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