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Is It Our Job To Love Unbelievers?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Donato, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Yes very touching video. I can see love in the eyes of John the Baptist (who Jesus referred as “The greatest man to have ever lived”);

    25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
    26-32 (more of the same)
    33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

    Anyway, John 13 34 is so taken out of context, the most I’ve seen of the Scriptures, and in the Scriptures context is everything.

    If you look at the verses pre and post you will find the context as such;

    Jesus in private time with his disciples is telling them to love each other; (e.g. Peter to love John) just as Jesus loved them. Jesus was soon going to the Cross soon and he knew the world would hate them, torture them, and kill them, and the only love they would know would be Christian to Christian.

    Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say we are to love a non-believer as we would another Christian. If it does, chapter and verse please?

    On the contrary consider 2 Corinthians 6

    14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols?

    Some would say this is pertaining to marriage but there is no reference to male or female so I would say the context is general. We are to love non-Christians but they are not our buddies. Non-Christians are the ones who crucified our Lord and they would do it again if He were here today. They would crucify us if we were more like Him.

    Jesus convicted non-believers to the very root of their soul, to the very root of their sin, with absolutely positively no compromise what so ever, and non-believers hated him for it. If Jesus was all; “Love and Piece Man…”, like many believe, why did they hate Him, why did they kill Him?

    Many Christians believe it’s not loving to cause division. Chapter and verse please in the scriptures where Jesus was not causing division?

    On the contrary consider Matthew 10 where Jesus says;

    34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

    I think too many people confuse the truth with being unloving, but nothing is more loving than the truth. On the contrary, to let someone perish in a false system of belief for all eternity because they feel they have to "love", isn’t loving at all.

    Again if I’ve misspoke, chapter and verse please where Jesus holds love at higher value than the truth and proclamation of the Gospel?

    P.S. It’s ok if Gandhi doesn’t like Christians because he wouldn’t have liked the real Jesus ether.
     
    Ron likes this.
  2. This video isn't talking about speaking truth to nonchristians, but it's talking about how many Christians go around judging and turning their nose down at nonchristians. We shouldn't go around sharing truth to hurt people or to make them feel bad, but we should speak truth in love and let the truth do it's job. We cannot lead someone to repentance, so yes, we can share the truth, but the rest is up to God to convict that person and bring them to Christ.
     
  3. I can see where this conversation can get rather cyclical fast:

    So I am offering an opinion based on what I know of the Lord and Ephesians 4; If we are to 'speak the truth in love'; I don't believe that our speech is reserved for fellow believers only:

    Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

    If we speak in one nature to believers and another to unbelievers-that would be hypocritical-which the Lord HATES. I know I have this problem....

    I am pretty sure scripture touches on being double minded as well.... (James 1:8)

    This would make Christ's commandment to teach/ preach the Gospel to ALL very unfruitful....

    Was Christ less loving to the Samaritan woman or any other gentile? If I recall correctly-He healed ALL that had faith-not just the Jews....
     
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.
  4. Hmmm, I personally feel it's a given. How else are we supposed to bring unbelievers to our Lord and savior? Certainly not through hate and judgement.
     
    xspinningisfun and Major say Amen and like this.
  5. To be accurate in context there are 4 words in the Greek for “love” ; (i.e. Agape, Eros, Philia, and Storge) but only one in the English language. So context gets confusing at times.

    When Jesus tells us to love our neighbor;

    Is it “Eros”, passionate and sensual?
    Is it “Philia”, friendship brotherly love?
    Is it “Storge”, deep natural affection as toward family?
    Is it “Agape, selfless and sacrificial love?

    I gave the examples of John the Baptist and at face value he doesn’t appear to be very loving to the scribes and Pharisees. However Jesus referred to him as the greatest man that ever lived for that time. Is the Bible contradictory here? Now if you look into the context of the word used in the Bible for love; (Agape) which is a selfless, self-sacrificing kind of love, you will see there is no contradiction.

    Now no one would disagree that John the Baptist sacrificed all in love (Agape) in order to proclaim the coming of the Messiah. So in fact John the Baptist was loving to the “scribes and Pharisees” in proclaiming the truth of the Gospel and he sacrificed all (his head) for it.

    Now let’s look at the words of Jesus in Matthew 10

    13 If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. 14 Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

    Now there is no doubt that Jesus “loves” in this passage but what is the context of love? Again it’s agape, a selfless and sacrificial love. No one would argue that Jesus and his disciples didn’t sacrifice all in order to proclaim the truth of the Gospel so that all might be saved.

    Now the issue I had with the video is I feel the context was “Philia”, a friendship and brotherly love. My thought on the message was the author was telling Christians to not “offend” and have a “Philia”, a friendship and brotherly love with unbelievers and the world and that is not the context of ‘love’ in the Scriptures.

    The Gospel offends, that’s it’s intent, if we are true Christians, unbelievers will not like us and that's a fact. In John 6; Jesus was so offensive with His Word that a crowd of fifteen thousand (5k men, 10k women/children) dwindled down to only the 12. And Jesus had to turn to them and ask; “You do not want to go away also, do you?” The Gospel offends because it convicts us of our sin, but Jesus loves (agape) because He want's that all might be saved.

    One last example of the Biblical context of love would be the story of John Gibson Paton who was called as a missionary to an island of man-eating cannibals. Now was John Paton’s love for the man-eating cannibals;

    A: “Eros”, passionate and sensual?
    B: “Philia”, friendship brotherly love?
    C: “Storge”, deep natural affection as toward family?
    D: “Agape, selfless and sacrificial love?
     
    Reanne likes this.
  6. Isn't that he credo of groups like the Westboro Baptists?
    Hate the sin, hate the sinner even more.
     
  7. ugh.....

    We can always fall back to the "mega" commandment-usually solves everything:

    Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    What difference does is it make what kind of 'love' you are not doing?
     

  8. Since Jesus is the Word and He put it in there for a reason, perhaps you can ask Him when you see Him.

    If you ask me, it clears up the context. People (like the girl in the video) take John 13 34, 1 Corinthians 13; and Matthew 22 39 and use it in the context of (philia); “love, love, love, let’s love everybody just like Jesus did, and not offend anyone or hurt their feelings, can’t we just all get along"?

    This is an error of context, if not chapter and verse please where Jesus says; “Can’t we all just get along”?

    It’s no secret that Jesus and the Pharisees didn’t “get along”. Did Jesus love the Pharisees in a sensual way? Did Jesus love them like they were His buddies? Did Jesus love them equal to His Father in Heaven?

    Did Jesus love them to die for them…

    Context!
     
  9. Well I guess I look at it like this:

    There are lost people who will choose out of willful ignorance to remain lost;

    There are lost people who are seeking and are unsure of what they will find;

    There are lost people who think they are 'saved';

    As 'Christians'-I don't recall being given a commandment to determine who is which.

    I do however recall our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ-God in human form: commanding us to share the Gospel with ALL creatures....

    That being said, to chose whom to love is not in our orders from the Lord. If people don't want to be loved-well that's their problem, not ours. I am not saying that we are to trip over ourselves to "convince" them that our way of life is the right answer. You can love someone by simply handing them a tract-saying 'Jesus loves you' without ever committing yourself into a relationship of continuous fellowship.

    If all we are supposed to do is gather around the table and amuse each-other whom already believe-please point that out to me in the scriptures? You can't share the gospel without love-whatever kind you prefer...

    So when you see Jesus, you can ask Him whom you were supposed to 'love'. :rolleyes:
     
    Rusty likes this.
  10. Well and truly put, Mr. Dirty!:D
     
    Dirtyrottensinner likes this.
  11. Great post.
     
  12. Regardless of who is right, if it's not against the Word to not necessarily love those other than Christians, well then great. Some of us are still obeying His commandment, I suppose. I will say this however, life is a heck of a lot easier loving as many people as God chose to do, than it is living in hate towards some and not others. Seems like an emotional burden to go that route. I choose the love path.
     
    Rusty likes this.
  13. A wise choice!
     
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.
  14. I think there needs to be an understanding about "love" versus 'tolerance & compromise'. Loving people doesn't mean we are in constant acceptance of unbelieving behavior. EXAMPLE: My daughter- the dirty rotten sinner she is; is taught and disciplined in the ways of God the best I know how. Granted, I feel like a miserable failure trying to learn how to be a 'Christian' dad while trying to teach her how to be a 'Christian' lady. She has yet to make that choice for salvation. I still "love" her, but I am not going to accept ALL her bad behavior without consequence. I still 'fellowship' with her; but there will come a day when she is grown that she will no longer rely on her parents-and start making her own steps in the world.

    We so often forget about our children being 'unsaved'. Just because a child is born into a home where both parents profess to be 'Christians' doesn't mean they are automatically in the club. (Wonder if we can find any examples of this in the Bible...) Our own children have to make that choice-and if we don't give them the option-the world will sure show them a broad path to destruction.

    This concept has been rather difficult for me as a new baby Christian myself-as a parent. It is also my belief that children change your entire perspective of scripture-not the fundamentals-but on subjects like this one "love". Parents have the advantage in this subject-if they are following Christ's teaching. This is one of those reasons that single people should adhere to the advice of elders & successful married with children couples/ parents. Parents provide a testimony to the truth of God's Word when it comes to loving others. Especially having & raising children. Single no children people benefit by listening to good counsel (HEARKEN!)

    Imagine a perfect world where children obeyed their parents, and the parents loved their children in God's way. I wonder if their could be a place like that..............?

    1 Peter 5:5
     
  15. The truth is the light. It doesn't matter how you switch the light on. The light causes offence!

    The 'real' message being taught by false teachers is that we must dim the light :(. If we dim our light, we create problems between us and God.

    If I love my wife and you notice I am doing something that hurts her. I will receive what you say! whether you shout or talk quietly is irrelevant!

    It is not our job to love unbelievers, it is in our nature to love them.
     
  16. I am sure that existed just before television :).
     
  17. It seems to be. What a shame!

    I sure wish they would remove the "Baptist" from their name!
     
  18. Yep......the Donna Reed Show!
     
  19. Sadly. After so much of my life facing betrayel, I have had to finally arrive at the point where I will only know non-christians at the acquaintance level. I will feed them. Spend some time with them. Share the Lord with them. Things that the Lord commands.
    I will not, however, let them around my wife or child in a way where they could undermine my family or our values. I used to have christian and non-christian friends. I paid heavily for that. Now, I will only confide in christians. A non-christian's moral compass has no bearing and will spin hither and thither.
    I believe love should be broken down into it's four basic categories and healthy boundaries should be established and maintained. For those of you who have never been sexually abused, this may seem foreign to you. But to us who have been abused, these sexual wires have been activated and crossed at an early age and confusion can set in as to what kind of love goes where.
    Are we to love them yes. Does that mean a blank check in regards to your home and family ...NO. Love begins in the home. Protect the family. There is too much to lose.
    My mom let people stay in our home who had no business being there. She did this in the name of God.
     

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