Importance Of Receiving The Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Holy Spirit Baptism and Living' started by pachumonia, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. I don't mind at all =)
    Generally, charismatic services is talking about ecstatic religious experiences. Praying in tongues is dorea, not charisma as we can see throughout the various incidences in the book of Acts.

    The reason they call it Charismatic is because they believe that speaking in tongues as only one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But throughout the book of Acts, when they mentioned the gift of the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues they used 'dorea.' Speaking in tongues is not only one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, it is the only evidence for receiving the Holy Spirit.
     
  2. KINGJ, I am having some trouble understanding what you mean. Are you saying that we receive Jesus, God, Holy Spirit when we believe?

    Also, when you quote Colossians 2:9-10, it says: "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."
    • This verse doesn't exactly say at what point we receive Him, and it doesn't say when we receive Him we are saved
    Where in the Bible says the gift of the Holy Spirit is the physical presence of the Holy Spirit? Speaking in tongues itself has nothing to do with salvation, however, the Holy Spirit is required for salvation, read the following:
    • In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)
    • But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. (Romans 8:9)
    And the only way the apostles know how to tell who received the Holy Spirit is whether or not they spoke in tongues. How else could they tell who received the Holy Spirit and who didn't?

    I would love to talk about trinity, however the original purpose of this post is to talk about the importance of receiving the Holy Spirit. I will answer your question on another post that Pachumonia has started. If you would like to talk about that, please use the other post.
     
  3. No need. This is such a dumb discussion.

    The trinity is 100% inline with this thread because to say we receive the Holy Spirit at a different time to Jesus and God clearly shows you don't agree with it. Which would make yours and pachumonios posts heresy and manipulation of scripture as there is clear, well known scripture to support the trinity. I see this entire thread as nothing more then a subtle manipulation of scripture to confuse the trinity and stumble Christians.
     
  4. This is how John (one of the Apostles) knew.
     
  5. I don't like the word use of can or cannot. Speaking in tongues is not something that is learned, it is natural when we receive the Holy Spirit. According to the Bible, you do not speak in tongues it means you do not have the Holy Spirit. If you do not have the Holy Spirit you cannot go to heaven (Ephesians 1:13-14; Romans 8:9).

    • In this verse is repentance mentioned? Is not repentance necessary for salvation? (2 Corinthians 7:10)
    "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" (Matthew 7:21-22)
    • Those who say Lord, Lord and who have prophesied in His name, cast out demons and done many wonders, are those not the people believed in Jesus? How come they could not enter the kingdom of heaven?
    The context John chapter 3 started out with Nicodemus. Up until verse 22, it was a dialogue between Nicodemus and Jesus Christ. Nicodemus came to Jesus, and Jesus gave him the truth of salvation:
    • To be born again; meaning to be born of water and the Spirit, otherwise they cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:3-5)
    • Your path to the heavenly kingdom starts with belief, but does not end at belief. True belief encompasses obeying the commandments and the words of God which includes (John 3:5). This does not contradict with (John 3:16).
     
  6. Well, you didn't answer any of my questions. And, you did not support your belief with the Bible. We offered you passages from the Bible. I asked simple questions concerning the verses you used. But if you feel offended in anyway, your welcome to stop discussion. I apologize, if I did offend you in anyway.
     
  7. I agree with the need to receive the Spirit. I do not agree with tongues being the only proof. Tongues is only one of many gifts. Not all believers will receive it.
     
    Abba's child and covered_by_grace say Amen and like this.

  8. To shorten my post a little bit, you can look up the different translations of the same Biblical text. I personally use the KJV and NKJV version:

    "to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills" (1 Corinthians 12:10-11).

    Please read my post to AHA, detailing the difference between Charisma and Dorea the Greek word "gift." In the context of 1 Corinthians 12, the varieties of tongues and the interpretation of tongues are often used right next to each other. When Paul spoke of this gift, he spoke of it in association with another gift which is the interpretation of tongues. Not everyone who has the Holy Spirit will be given the gift of preaching in tongues or interpreting tongues. This distinguishes it from the tongues which mark the baptism of the Holy Spirit. According to Acts, everyone who received the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues. Look at the following:
    • to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
      (1 Corinthians 12:10)
    • And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:28)
    • Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? (1 Corinthians 12:30)
    • How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. (1 Corinthians 14:26-27)
     
  9. Are you saying that John knew they received the Holy Spirit by their actions?
     
  10. Hey guys,

    The 12 apostles, did they not believe in Jesus and God? but when they believed in Jesus, did they receive the Holy Spirit? No they did not, they received the Holy Spirit after Jesus went to heaven, and when they were all praying together in Acts chapter 2. So then, my question is, if we all have received the Holy Spirit when we believe in God and receive Him, then how come the apostles did not receive the Holy Spirit all the way until Jesus went to Heaven?

    Please believe us that we do speak of heresy and manipulate the truth. All our messages is based on bible and all comes from the bible.
     
  11. I believe that is what he's saying.
     
  12. Just for the record : )
    · it just mean that I understand where you are coming from, what you are saying
    · but it does not mean I agree with you, entirely

    What I do not agree with you is:
    · you are trying to equate “only evidence” with manifestation…
    · when we cannot see “only evidence” in the scriptures: it just a phrase created to describe an observation in the Acts of the Apostles.
    · Manifestation is fully in discretion not of man, not of our prayers.
    · Paul is not praying when arrived in the house of Cornelius, Paul was preaching, speaking salvation then. There was no laying of hand.

    My personal understanding is this:
    · Even the devil believes that Jesus is our Lord and Savior as well, I think…
    · Even a non-Christians believe that.
    · Even a longtime Christian believe that as well !

    · BUT……….. when the realization comes that full understanding of why Jesus is called our Savior, Jesus Christ the Redeemer, in the first place : it hit us hard! … we do not know what to say or what we are to say, but we have to say something!

    · The Holy Spirit was promised to us to teach us everything: thus, when we are taught something: it is real understanding and it will hit us hard! ….. we do not know what to say or what we are to say….
    · our conscious mind will just say thank you Lord, thanks be to God.
     

  13. Dear HISMANYSONGS, thanks for your reply. But are our actions really how the apostles knew that people have received the Holy Spirit?


    "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death." (NKJV 1 John 3:14)
    • This passage talks of including it's context talks of the children of God and how they are made manifest in practising righteousness. We have passed from death into life is because of God's saving grace, and our lifestyles and actions of love show that we have passed from death into life.
    • I believe the correct usage in the Bible is "because" and not "prove." Of the many translations I've looked at, there is very few that use the word "prove": http://bible.cc/1_john/3-14.htm
    "My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth" (NKJV 1 John 3:18)
    • If you are saying we must love in concrete actions not just by words, then I agree. While it easy to love in words, it takes self sacrifice to love in actions and truth. We need to give up our own interests, desires, or even possession to truly love. Jesus did not just say He loves us, but His actions demonstrated it (1 John 1:16). I agree.

    "And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us." (NKJV 1 John 3:23-24)
    • There are two points in verse 24 here. What are the two ways according to this verse that we can know that God abides in us and us in Him? According to this verse it is by keeping the commandments of God and receiving the Holy Spirit. It is not a sign in which John knew that people received the Holy Spirit.
    • Keep in mind that this epistle was directed to believers (1 John 5:13), and believers would have already received the Holy Spirit.
    Back to my original question, are our actions really how the apostles knew that people have received the Holy Spirit? Let us look at the example of Cornelius (Acts 10):
    • Cornelius was a devout man, feared God, and gave alms generously to the people (Acts 10:2). Cornelius loved in deeds, in actions. This type of love is sacrificial love, he had to give up his possessions to aid to the needs of the people.
    • Question: Why did Cornelius not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter's preaching? (Acts 10:44). He had love, he prayed always to God, why didn't he receive the Holy Spirit?
    • What was the sign of receiving the Holy Spirit for Cornelius and those who were there? Is it not because Peter heard them speak in tongues and magnify God? (Acts 10:46)
     
    pachumonia likes this.
  14. Thanks for your reply AHA =)

    Concerning your disagreements:
    • While the Bible never explicitly record that speaking in tongues is the only evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, it is the only evidence found in the Bible.
    • If you are saying the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit is not in the discretion of man then I agree. It is found in the the words of God, the Bible.
    • Friend, Paul was not at the house of Cornelius. It was Peter (Acts 10:44). There was no laying of hands because this is a direct miracle that God has granted Gentiles repentance to life (Acts 11:18). It was a mystery in those days because the apostles thought that salvation only belonged to the Jewish brethren.
    • Various miracles occurred to show God would give His grace to Gentiles: (1) Cornelius' vision to send for Peter (Acts 10:5), (2) Peter's vision to not regard Gentiles as unclean (Acts 10:15, 34), and lastly (3) The listeners received the Holy Spirit without the laying of hands. (Acts 10:44-45), that is why those of the circumcised were astonished.
    • Lastly, they knew that the gift of the Holy Spirit has been poured out on the Gentiles because they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God (Acts 10:46)
     

  15. Sorry I meant 1 John 3:16.
     
  16. Meh. Give me Galatians 5:22-26 as evidence of having the Holy Spirit over speaking in tongues any day. Frankly, I've never seen any particularly strong correlation between speaking in tongues and exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit.
     
  17. @ean, ooops yes, Peter and not Paul : )

    @ rumely
    Yes, I think finally to me, that verse is the real evidence, manifestation, sign, fruit
    .....although I clicked the verse and it should be Chapter 5, and not Chapter 6 : )
     

  18. Ean whomever told you speaking in tongues is the ONLY way to determine someone has the spirit is an &^^%%.

    Not to give that line too much attention, but if you are filled with the spirit, you are no longer in the flesh nature. And you cannot sin, rom 8:9, gal 5:16.....
     
  19. Dear Rumely and AHA, I believe AHA is correct =)
    I believe the fruit of the Holy Spirit appears in Galatians 5:22-24. Well when we read the Bible we can't take one thing over another, none of the Bible is suppose to contradict.

    Let's look at the case of Cornelius (Acts 10):
    • Cornelius was a devout man, one who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always (Acts 10:2)
    • In the least, Cornelius showed love, kindness, and goodness which is 3 of the characteristics of the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-24). Then if that is the case, why did he not have the Holy Spirit?
    • And when did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit? Was it not at Peter's preaching? How did Peter know? Peter knew because he heard them (Holy Spirit can be heard), spoke with tongues and magnify God.
    And lastly, there is very strong correlation between receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues throughout the entire Acts of the Apostles. Through Chapter 5 of Galatians, this was all intended for believers to walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16), and when we do have the Holy Spirit we will naturally display the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
     
  20. Dear Xian Pugilist,

    No one has to tell anyone anything, the book of Acts testify clearly of the Holy Spirit.

    [/QUOTE]
    I agree after you are filled with the Holy Spirit you will be compelled to not sin. However, we still are able to sin. We have to pray in the spirit constantly so that the Holy Spirit can help us in our weaknesses.

    Let's look at the case of Cornelius (Acts 10):
    • Cornelius was a devout man, one who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always (Acts 10:2)
    • In the least, Cornelius showed love, kindness, and goodness which is 3 of the characteristics of the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-24). Then if that is the case, why did he not have the Holy Spirit?
    • And when did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit? Was it not at Peter's preaching? How did Peter know? Peter knew because he heard them (Holy Spirit can be heard), spoke with tongues and magnify God.
    Also in the same chapter of Romans which you quoted (Romans 8:9), in the exact same chapter Paul talks of how the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us with groanings which cannot be uttered (Romans 8:26). Paul did not disregard speaking in tongues.
     

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