If Church is not following the Truth?

[bobinfaith]

Brother, you REALLY put your finger squarely on what I have observed so many times. The programmatic approach to the gathering will almost always stifle spontaneity and any organic expression of Christ as the Head over all, shoving Him out of the limelight into the side-shadows of importance so that "the show must go on."

It's interesting how in the times of Christ in the flesh on this earth, He went to the synagogues and stood up to read, which indicates that the local leadership didn't control, with an iron fist, against the allowance for the average, literate Jewish man to stand up, read in turn, and expound upon what was read. That speaks of a level of community that simply doesn't exist in modern traditions that date all the way back into the RCC and its priesthood -centric model of the program that magnifies the religious pageantry of ceremony. The god of order is magnified FAR beyond its mention in the scriptures. Most equate "order" with "program," as if the latter were God-breathed rather than man-made.

Wow. A dear sister in the Lord mentioned to me the other day how she so loves the "fellowship" of the services in her "church" of choice in the city. Rather than to challenge her sensibilities, I simply asked about the layout of the place, and she described it as the usual arrangement of chairs hooked together in rows, with everyone looking at the backs of other people's heads like any other audience form.

I held my peace given that she was/is so enthralled with her experiences there with their rock band, theatrics and all the other mumbo jumbo that she described. It's sad that she and so many like her know nothing about true, genuine, biblical fellowship. Most people shy away from that true form because of its inherent dangers to secret sins and lack of any real knowledge about the Bible due to surface, shallow studies on the part of most professing believers.

Thanks for sharing. Love you, bro.

MM

I love you too, brother MM;

It's sad but the plain truth is America has so much work ahead in the Disciplined Truth in His temples. We also don't get to decide how much time. But we can praise God for the Worship Gatherings that remain obedient to what God wants from us, not what we prefer.

In the meantime, we can also pray for the continued work in India. Their Christian Missions have a heavy load on their plates.

By the way, Hazel read this thread and sends her love to you and your wife.

God bless you, brother.

Bob

 

[Major]

In other view .. The early church has the clear management and clear governance.. They ruled the people to leave the sins and born again (to baptize) ,, They have clear teaching on riches, so they sold out the homes and lands and they gave to ministry. When they did mistakes there is strong warning and they rebuked the all people in early church. They have elderly ruling and services too.. Accountability is very clear in early Church.,. For me.. in our ministry we have the elders ruling, accountability on money, clear strong teaching to born again,.. Early church is the clear model church for whole generations..

Well....you ask a great question.

"What is going on"???

What you have described is what some of us have preached and warned against for many years. What you are seeing is the result of not reading and obeying the Word of God or changing and adding to it what they want it to say.

You listed several things that bother you and may I say that they bother me as well................

1. Prosperity Gospel.
This is a direct false teaching from the Word od Faith element of the Pentacostal denomination. It is deceitfull and dangereouse and the only ones driving Rolls Roices are the preachers.

Paul said, “There is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.” But then he warned against the desire to be rich. And by implication, he warned against preachers who stir up the desire to be rich instead of helping people get rid of it.

2. They are ignoring the holy commune.
If you are at a Church that does not participate in Communion..........LEAVE IT! It is not a Christian church.


3. They are selling coconut oil as holy oil.
Nothing new. That is why Jesus cleansed the Temple 2000 years ago. There is NOTHING to be gained in holy water as there is none!

4. They are selling promise cards and salvation assurance certificates.
And the Roman Catholic Church sold "Indulgencies". This is just one of about 36 false teaching of the RCC.
An indulgence is a remission of the punishment of sin which is given by the priest for a gift to the church. Absolution alone, granted by a priest, is not enough to wipe the slate clean; a person is temporally punished for the sins accumulated in life, so an indulgence is a way to reduce that. In essence, it is getting time off for good behaviour.

5. They are selling Jordan river water as holy water, also selling the Israel country soil as holy soil.
Very true. A TV preacher named "Peter Popoff" is doing that right now. He is the perfect picture of a used car salesman except the car saleman looks better.

6. They are giving false prophecies.
That is called LIEING!

All of this is why we must read the Bible for ourselves and reply on pastors of Bible believing churches to teach you the truth of God's Word!

Men since Genesis have done evil and will do so till Jesus comes.

 

[Brother IND]

All of this is why we must read the Bible for ourselves and reply on pastors of Bible believing churches to teach you the truth of God's Word!

Thank you very much for your detailed reply,, Thank you .. For me i am asking all of you what to do to stop these false matters,, you have replied with more comments thank you..

 

[Brother IND]

For me i am doing few works ,, 1. We are conducting the doctrinal awareness and spiritual awareness conferences and seminars to elders, deacons, Pastors and Evangelists.. In last 5 years we have conducted 34 seminars in different cities in different states in India.. We have reached more than 6000 people. We know we can't bring all change but we can do some thing.. we are getting 10 to 20 % response from people. We are conducting the follow up meeting too,, Please pray ,, many people changed their churches leadership style and their preaching too,, we are doing some great work by the grace of God,, Doing some thing is better than Doing nothing .. Please pray

 

[Brother IND]

Mistake in giving? No. They were struck dead for trying to lie to Holy Spirit. They could have kept all the proceeds and give none of it, but because they tried to lie by saying they had given it all, they were struck dead to keep that early Church from being tainted by such people.

I am believing ,, we need to practice the apostles faith and practice,.. corner stone is Jesus, foundation is apostles 1 Cor 3 .. we need to maintain the apostles standards and practice ,, for me i am working to do same as my life is given to people and ministry ,, Thank you very much brother

 

[Brother IND]

Right now ,,,, For me i am doing few works ,, 1. We are conducting the doctrinal awareness and spiritual awareness conferences and seminars to elders, deacons, Pastors and Evangelists.. In last 5 years we have conducted 34 seminars in different cities in different states in India.. We have reached more than 6000 people. We know we can't bring all change but we can do some thing.. we are getting 10 to 20 % response from people. We are conducting the follow up meeting too,, Please pray ,, many people changed their churches leadership style and their preaching too,, we are doing some great work by the grace of God,, Doing some thing is better than Doing nothing ..

 

[Brother IND]

Mistake in giving? No. They were struck dead for trying to lie to Holy Spirit. They could have kept all the proceeds and give none of it, but because they tried to lie by saying they had given it all, they were struck dead to keep that early Church from being tainted by such people.

ONLY one person is lied along with his wife. They both are died,, but now the whole church leaders and believers are with lies,, so if God is want to leave us to die,, no one can life in present church,, This is why I am believing the spirit of God is not working in the present church, They claiming the human inspirations are the spirit of God inspiration,, There is no darkness in God,, There is no lie in right Church. I am sorry to say,, i have travelled to thousands of churches, villages and places,, i saw more than 90% are with lies,, I am tearing to say this,, This is why God made me to do some thing for reformation in present church, We have started another ministry ''Christian Mentors" and doing hard work to teach truth and fundamentals to preachers and elders,, it is not giving full results but we are getting 10 to 20% results in different cities,,

 

[Brother IND]

We are not our own.. I am believing this.. Christ purchased us by paying his blood as a penalty.. we are not out own.. so everything what we have is belongs to God.. This is why the early church people are practiced to give every thing what they have.. Rom 14:7 saying ,, we are living for him,, I am strongly believing we are the property of God,, so Everything is belongs to God,, God made me to give my life by leaving a earning job, and my wife left job to serve God,, and my son (Engineer) also left our jobs to serve in poor country by facing attacks, persecutions, and every kind of struggle in mission fields,, *our life is a choice to live for HIS GLORY.

 

[Brother IND]

MY English is third language for me.. Please excuse me and forgive me for my bad English,, i don't know grammar in my English,, i am started to talk English from 56y age,, still growing ,, if i need to give reply in my mother tongue ,, i may add more bible verses too,, i am strong in my mother tongue,, sorry,, you don't know my mother tongue ,, please don't mind for my English

 

[crossnote]

Yes I don't know what is happening in your country.. but i can say what is happening in our country.. They are preaching prosperity gospel, they are ignoring the holy commune, They are selling coconut oil as holy oil, They are selling promise cards and salvation assurance certificates, They are selling Jordan river water as holy water, also selling the Israel country soil as holy soil, They are giving false prophecies, they are only preaching healings for flesh... They are adding many many false practices.. They are preaching for 40 days fasting for salvation. And many many brother.. They are encouraging people to follow the works (They are ignoring the word Eph 2:8) .. Dreams, visions for salvation, i hope we can chat once to talk and discuss more and more ..
They are saying give money and get blessings.. Not preaching the gospel to born again.. Just preaching prosperity gospel.
Thank you for asking

It sounds like ignorance of God's Word is running rampant. The people desperately need biblical teaching.

 

[bobinfaith]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply,, Thank you .. For me i am asking all of you what to do to stop these false matters,, you have replied with more comments thank you..

MY English is third language for me.. Please excuse me and forgive me for my bad English,, i don't know grammar in my English,, i am started to talk English from 56y age,, still growing ,, if i need to give reply in my mother tongue ,, i may add more bible verses too,, i am strong in my mother tongue,, sorry,, you don't know my mother tongue ,, please don't mind for my English

Hello Brother IND;

Don't worry about your English. I'm grateful you communicated with us and you were able to get your message out there.

You initiated this thread and received good posts from your brothers and sisters and to each other.

Your thread has almost 600 views world wide! Praise God!

This is a good and positive prayer request.

God bless you, brother and your ministry.

Bob

 

[Musicmaster]

ONLY one person is lied along with his wife. They both are died,, but now the whole church leaders and believers are with lies,, so if God is want to leave us to die,, no one can life in present church,, This is why I am believing the spirit of God is not working in the present church, They claiming the human inspirations are the spirit of God inspiration,, There is no darkness in God,, There is no lie in right Church. I am sorry to say,, i have travelled to thousands of churches, villages and places,, i saw more than 90% are with lies,, I am tearing to say this,, This is why God made me to do some thing for reformation in present church, We have started another ministry ''Christian Mentors" and doing hard work to teach truth and fundamentals to preachers and elders,, it is not giving full results but we are getting 10 to 20% results in different cities,,

I am not a prophet who has heard from God that He is not using the institutional model for His purposes. If you believe that you have heard from God that He is not using the institutional church model, then that is between you and the Lord. I do not believe that the Lord has cast aside that model. It is still populated by SOME true believers who simply want a place to be with others. It is where they are fed.

Also, not ALL the ministers behind pulpits are men seeking to lie and cheat others. Most deceivers believe what they teach. The true men of God behind pulpits are stuck with a paradigm since there is little else out there to sustain a career for them. Rest assured that the institutional paradigm as we have known it is going to change back into what it once was in places like Nazi Germany and other places where the iron fisted rule of tyrants kept them in the vein of their demands.

Rather than worry so much about the more popular and famous of the liars behind pulpits with many names I could name here, but will refrain because of some of their followers may be here reading these posts and become offended, why not concentrate on what Paul commanded after we have offered up our criticisms?

Phllippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

This is what has brought balance to my message to others so that they are people who once again are back up on their stilts, walking about as they look upon the landscape below. Perhaps the language barrier will keep some from understanding what I'm saying here, so suffice it to say this:

The Church is pure and glorious! She has never been tainted by the world because unbelievers cannot be a part of her! The size of the Church has grown and declined with the spiritual temperature throughout the world around her, but she is without blame because she serves the One who has imputed upon each and every one of us His Righteousness! We are the righteousness of God in Christ, and that is the shield against any and all accusation from Satan and his religious servants. The world will look upon us with hatred, but that is simply the nature of the world.

So, how about something praiseworthy. I know the Lord is working to this very day, just as He was on the Sabbath day when Jesus and His disciples were walking through the grain field yet to be harvested. Some would say they were stealing, and gnash their teeth against that, but when it comes to necessity and hunger, we feed a starving world as best we can in the midst of all the hatred.

You have served a good purpose here in helping me offer up some balance in the midst of my own criticisms mostly aimed at helping others to understand that there is true fellowship that can be experienced, but it requires effort and sacrifice. Opening up one's home to invite others in to discover true fellowship with fellow believers, that's not an easy thing to do in a world filled with savages seeking to destroy and bring down into ruin any and all potential for spiritual growth and maturity.

Blessings to you all.

MM

 

[Major]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply,, Thank you .. For me i am asking all of you what to do to stop these false matters,, you have replied with more comments thank you..

What "you" can and should o it read your Bible, make yourself a workman that God would approve of so that when you are exposed to those things you have identified, you can expose them......or you can run from them.

James 4:7.........."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

It is a blessing to have spoken with you!!!

 

[Brother IND]

What "you" can and should o it read your Bible, make yourself a workman that God would approve of so that when you are exposed to those things you have identified, you can expose them......or you can run from them.

James 4:7.........."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

It is a blessing to have spoken with you!!!

I want to give few details on my ministry (status).. I am already doing research in bible and going to conduct many seminars to teach truth

 

[bobinfaith]

What "you" can and should o it read your Bible, make yourself a workman that God would approve of so that when you are exposed to those things you have identified, you can expose them......or you can run from them. James 4:7.........."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." It is a blessing to have spoken with you!!!

I want to give few details on my ministry (status).. I am already doing research in bible and going to conduct many seminars to teach truth

Hello Brother IND;

We pray your personal Bible reading is building you up for the mission field. How are the classes going for the Pastors and Preachers? When do they graduate and go into the field?

God bless you, Brother.

 

[Brother IND]

Hello Brother IND;

We pray your personal Bible reading is building you up for the mission field. How are the classes going for the Pastors and Preachers? When do they graduate and go into the field?

God bless you, Brother.

God is helping me to do three different teaching and preaching works
1. Preaching to people .
A. Preaching gospel to new people.,.. giving gospel by street preaching, giving gospel tracts to home to home ,, meeting people individually to give personal gospel ..
B. giving word of God in our established churches.. (we are working from 35years and already planted many village churches). God is allowing us to do these two kinds of preaching..
2. Teaching to workers (Evangelists, Pastors and leaders).
A. We have the Bible college to train the new ministers (pastors and evangelists) This is big process with three years course). God blessed us to finish the teaching and to commend (ordain) the 49 ministers in previous years,,) Now another batch is in traiining.
B. We have the burden and passion to teach fundaments to all kinds of preachers. We are believing that more than 90% preachers are DIVERTED TO FALSE TEACHING AND PREACHING This is why we are already started to do some thing to bring preachers to truth,, Hence we are working to conduct the doctrinal awareness and spiritual awareness seminars. In previous 10 years we have reached more than 8000 elders, Evangelists, Pastors and leaders in more than 50 seminars..in different cities in different states in India
((( I am believing ))) ... Every day is a learning time for our personal growth in Bible knowledge.. and every day Going to out side ,, to teach and preach ,,, Unless we learn how we can go and preach and teach,..)))
So i am glad to invite all of you to join us in this special teaching project
1. you can visit and share your BIBLE knowledge to our people
2. you can join us as prayer parter..
3. you can support this project to get good fruits in future..
NOTE : please advise us to do well in future
GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU

 

[crossnote]

Philippians 3:4-10 NKJV
though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [5] circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; [6] concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

[7]But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. [8] Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ [9] and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; [10] that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

 

[Brother IND]

Philippians 3:4-10 NKJV
[7]But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. [8] Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ [9] and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; [10] that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

Thank you very much for posting,.
Biblically i am happy to agree with you
I am glad to say ,. Jesus died to stop the religion (where the religious leaders are diverted people) ,, Jesus wanted to change the religious system to Right Christian faith. He died in the hands of religious leaders..
In these days too.. people are diverted to false faith and false practices. The Christian system is diverted to false gospel and prosperity gospel. more than 80 to 90% preachers and churches need some reformation.. So God laid some burden and passion in my heart.. This is why... 1. giving gospel to new people .. 2. leading church in right faith.. 3. giving training to new people to make new ministers , 4. conducting the seminars for doctrinal awareness ,,We are STRONGLY BELIEVING every true Christian has same responsibility. This is my opinion .. i don't force all Christians to do same work. But i am glad to say i am doing my part of Work to 1. to spread the true gospel, 2. To keep the local churches (our ministry) in right faith.. 3. Making the disciples, 4. And spreading the right doctrine..
I am requesting all of you to pray for my activities here..
(Note : our ministry is doing works in 6 states in India.. Lot of ministers (pastors, evangelists) are working in ministry,) please pray for them to do well in this great job..