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I Got A Question About Eternal Bliss After We Die

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by MoxyPoxy, Apr 7, 2014.

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  1. I understand we sin and that is what make us sinners. in theory, if we all go to hell and pay for our punishment, wouldn't that make jesus free of needing to suffer for us? I feel so horrible about god paying my punishment for me. If I make a mistake, I should be the one to be punished, not anyone else. Even though my punishment for sinning is eternal punishment, it would make me feel a lot better to know that jesus won't be suffering for my sins. I don't want jesus to suffer for anyone's sin. If it is possible, I would be happy to double my punishment to let my girlfriend's soul go to heaven even though she doesn't believe in jesus. Is there a way to negotiate the punishment with the Lord? I want to be the one that will be paying for everyone's punishment so they don't need to suffer. Maybe the lord can make maximum punishment on me so Jesus and the rest (including nonbelievers) don't need to suffer from their sins. or since my family wants to go to hell for everyone's sin, couldn't that save at least one nonbeliever?
     
  2. Paul felt the same way toward Israel...the problem is because you have sinned you cannot qualify. The lamb of sacrifice must be pure and without blemish!

    Secondly, it is not because you sinned that you are a sinner, it is because you are a sinner by nature that you have sinned. The nature we inherited from Adam is corrupted. We all seek to be god unto ourselves (Genesis 3:5)....we all (having partaken of the fruit of that knowledge) would rather do what is right in our own eyes and decide good and evil for ourselves. So like Cain God speaks top our heart (or by the Spirit through another or through the word) and we reject God and the knowledge that is of Him and do what we want...Your way opposes YHVH...spiritual death is the consequence NOT the punishment...OUR sin separates us from God because He is Holy, Holy, Holy, and sin cannot be in His presence...He prefers we would all repent but most will not...this grieves Him because He loves us...God takes no pleasure in the death (eternal separation from Him) of the wicked.

    The cross was not about victimization or wrath, it was about love...

    In His love

    brother Paul
     
  3. You need to use some logic. Since 'hell' is eternal...it speaks of a home and not a prison sentence.

    In the OT those that were after God's heart yet were active sinners went to Abrahams bosom, not Hades.

    God does not make mistakes. If your home is hell then He tried everything to get you to change your heart. There is no chance in hell of you ever 'sincerely' wanting to 'serve' Him. You cannot serve two masters. You either love one or hate the other Matt 6:24.
     
  4. So the sacrifice needs to be pure without sin. Does the sacrifice have to be living? Can it be a computer with artificial intelligence? A computer with artificial intelligence cannot do sin. if I give that computer to God, wouldn't that complete my eternal punishment and from there, I can go wherever I want? The way I thought of god, hell, heaven, is god is a judge, hell is a life sentence in prison, heaven is outside that prison. If I go to heaven, I wouldn't mind visiting hell just for fun. Would I be protected from the pain and agony if I go to hell after going to heaven?

    what if what we want to do will always be helpful to other people? I always do nice things for people and I am never expecting them to return the favor. I always do follow god's standard of being moral, and believes that jesus died on the cross (as an event like believing a pharoah got assassinated by some guy back in 20 B.C., not as god's compassion for human kind) It would be highly believable that a an egyptian pharoah got murdered.

    so i should only love him to make him feel better so he won't grieve? not because I want to actually be in a relationship with him? I am dating a girl only to make her feel better and to give what she wants. She wants me to be her boyfriend so I am. She also states that if I don't love her, she will be sad. I don't want to be with her but I will be willing to date her just so she can be psychologically well. wouldn't it be possible to love god in hell?
     
  5. Let's get to the point.. Before we answer all these questions, who do you think Jesus Christ is? (like my friend Major would ask!! :D) Once we get an answer from you, we would be able to help you better.. Our answers could be more focussed and to the point..
     
  6. #6 MoxyPoxy, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
    jesus christ is a god just like zues, and ra, and odin. a god dying on the cross seems very believable since zues's daughter (athena) was born and pop out of from his head. I do believe jesus have risen from the dead because all gods can do supernatural things, like zues can make thunder from his hand. I know zues is real because it said so.
     
  7. Okay.. There are people like (like Brother Paul, Major, Mitspa, etc) who are very good in answering questions.. But I think it is good to know what your beliefs are..

    If Jesus Christ was just another god, then why should he lay down His life for others? Which no other god did.. Something that is not heard of in any other religion..
     
    Silk and AllieWi say Amen and like this.
  8. ______________________________________________________

    You can't be serious.

    You need to seek another religion that has no god like our God (atheism), or has a place of temporary suffering (purgatory), so that you can be appeased. If, in fact, you are truly seeking Truth: then you need to read the Bible. Begin with any book of the gospels.

    My take is you know too much to really ask those questions.
     
  9. except Mithra. he also layed his life for others. Both jesus and mithra rose from the dead 3 days afterwards. my beliefs is christianity. Zues, anubis, and every other gods is existing in hell because they don't believe in jesus christ. They can be saved by believing in jesus christ. If zues isn't a god, then he is a super powerful being that can create thunder from nothing and is less powerful than jesus and more powerful than human. After I die, I know I will be tormented in hell for eternity. I believe everything what is written in the bible.

    Candelario mario villa, I'm confused, what do you mean???
     
  10. If I go to heaven, I wouldn't mind visiting hell just for fun. Would I be protected from the pain and agony if I go to hell after going to heaven?

    Never the twain shall meet…there is nothing “fun” about being in that state…

    so i should only love him to make him feel better so he won't grieve? not because I want to actually be in a relationship with him?

    Wow! Where did you get such a distorted notion (a whole bunch of them, especially the poor girl you are deceiving)? Not from anything anybody here has said!

    wouldn't it be possible to love god in hell?

    Absolutely not…hating and or rejecting Him, and being your own lord (deciding for yourself what is good or evil, which I know YOU do) is what gets you there…

    Brothers and sisters, MOXY POXY is not looking for answers or help...it's a Troll....I suggest you do not play his/her ruling spirit's game...

    Father rebuke that spirit...
     
  11. I didn't post that. One of my friend created this account and posted earlier today using my home computer. I just barely went on my account. I'm not a troll. I posted the "So I read the gospels". not anything before that. I am sorry. and yes. I am looking for answers. I want to confirm that I am going to hell no matter how good I am in anything. I won't let my friend log onto my account ever again. I will apologize for what my friend did. I am sorry if you think I wasted your time. Some of the post like the gay couple thing is controversial and I just wanted to add that people should not force people to do anything that is against their religion.
     

  12. ________________________________________________________

    My thoughts exactly!
     
  13. I am looking for help. I just want to confirm with this website that I am going to hell no matter how good and nice I have been and will be continuing being nice and not harming anyone.
     
  14. ______________________________________________
     
  15. I do respect people, like I would never force christians to go against god. one of my closest friends is christian and I always join him in prayer when we eat just for respect. I think I'll just leave. I don't know what I want.

    "Absolutely not…hating and or rejecting Him, and being your own lord (deciding for yourself what is good or evil, which I know YOU do) is what gets you there…"

    I am not deciding what is good or evil. Even though acting on homosexual urges are evil, I will still support that because I want to be a loving friend and supporting friend. Two people that are in love with each other should have sex with each other. If I am gay, and found love, which is really hard to find, yes, I choose to act on the homosexual urges and will have permartial sex.
     
  16. Never the twain shall meet…there is nothing “fun” about being in that state…

    Oh. at least during the time that I am alive, I will be able to help other people and help make other people happy. even though there is nothing fun about being in hell.

    Wow! Where did you get such a distorted notion (a whole bunch of them, especially the poor girl you are deceiving)? Not from anything anybody here has said!

    I don't even have a girlfriend. I would never do that. I would only ask a girl out if I truly like her.

    Absolutely not…hating and or rejecting Him, and being your own lord (deciding for yourself what is good or evil, which I know YOU do) is what gets you there…

    I am not selfish. Lying is evil. Throughout my life, I always have been supportive of my friends no matter what. If they are gay/lesbian, I would still support them. I am happy that they found someone that really appreciates them and wants to continue to reaching out to them. even though acting on gay / lesbian tendencies is sin. if I had a girlfriend and we're both in love with each other, we will have sex with each other assuming she is not christian. If she is christian, I will wait until marriage. Like I said, I respect people and never want people to go against their religion. I have been volunteering at a homeless shelter, I donate old clothes. I will not stop being nice and will continue being nice.
     
  17. #17 Brother Paul, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    you speak of something you do not understand so perhaps you will if I explain it. God is Holy...sin cannot exist in His presence. He has offered a pardon...(Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice)...good works have absolutely nothing to do with it. Sin cannot exist in His presence. Its as simple as that. So since a person who had not had their sins remmissed cannot be in His presence, where shall they be? They will not cease to exist. So for all who would reject Him and that which He would provide to remedy the problem He has designed a place. A place where all who insist on being "lord" (whether good or bad by human standards is irrelevant) can continue having nothing to do with Him (as was their ever present desire).

    Now imagine such a place? No light at all ever (because that was of Him and you have rejected Him and all He would provide...the most important of which is your redemption)....no order and control to cool the fires of chaos because that was also His doing. No fellowship even with one other (because fellowship/relationship was His creation)...needs of the soul ever burning but never quenched because He is THE provider...but you are lord...so if you want them then you create these things...oh thats right you cannot...you are a false lord. So it shall be forever and ever and you shall know forever that the choice was given over and over before you passed from this realm into the next.

    You and I and all on this and every other forum of any nature have broken immutable laws put in place before mankind even came into existence. These immutable laws were so this creation would optimize and support life at its blessed best. These laws are physical, some spiritual, others judicial...you do not have to tell a pagan tribal leader that it is wrong to kill or rape his wife or children...God said so...the God he does not know...but it is nonetheless so.

    So now imagine the immutable law of gravity as an example....in your self will, against all warnings (thou shalt not...), having been foretold the consequence (not even a punishment for the act) you have jumped head long off a skyscraper....you are surely plummeting to a sure Ssspplllaaattt!!! It does not matter all the good you have done...you have broken an immutable law and the consequence is built into the law...you will surely die! But God loves you so much, that even though you have been self willed and decided what you think should be good or evil or what that should count for, He has called out to you right here, right NOW, and offered you a net capable of catching you free fall before you die and saving you...now that you realize the ground is coming up ever more quickly, do you call out and accept the net offered? Your way or Yah's way...the choice is yours....the net is the willful self sacrifice on your behalf of a man who knew NO SIN....He did it because He loves YOU...the name of His net is Jesus...

    Now if you do not care or do not believe God and insist on being your own lord have at it...but please, I beg you (an ex-atheist who has broken all of the big ten and loved it in those days)...I beg you please (and I am going to start praying as soon as I post) do not encourage your babies in this foolish self lordship...or your wife...not if you claim to love them. Please

    I you are gay...God still loves you and He is not against love...He does not hate you for your orientation but God has declared sodomy is an abomination (and Biblically most sodomites were not gay, they were unrelentless hedonists)....it is the exchange of that which is natural for that which is unnatural and is thus a violation of physical laws He has established in the biology of humankind...you cannot stop love, or your attraction to men, but you can stop trying to be a woman and allowing your anus to replace a vagina (forgive me mods but someone has to say it)...when a man lays with another man as if he were a woman it is an abomination unto the Lord....

    and don't give me the "its genetic" hogwash because too many studies have been done with Identical twins (mono-zygotic) where one is straight and the other gay (though exact same identical DNA)...so it is simple...the issue is, when you die in this world, will your sins still be un-remmissed or will they still be in place (not having taken the net...the free pardon) before a Holy God who cannot allow them into His presence (there just cannot be two or more lords)


    brother Paul
     
    KingJ likes this.
  18. Harsh you think? Please know and understand Moxy that compared to me you are already an angel and in the world's eyes (ruled by the prince of darkness) you are one of the good ones or so it seems you are saying and I do not doubt that...in fact I doubt you will ever be as evil as I loved being...but I took the net (and it changed everything over time, everything) and I pray so will you...may the Lord of creation plant these seeds deep as the word of God (the true and meaningful seeds) you hear from my brothers and sisters breaks up the fallow ground...

    In His love

    Paul
     
  19. #19 MoxyPoxy, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    okay, thanks for your detailed explanation. so basically, if I continue being good to human standard, I will just be in a place in hell. Okay, sounds good. If I live a good life to human standard and I go to hell, I wouldn't mind living in hell forever. What makes me happy is that the fact that I lived my life helping others and making others happy even though I will be tortured in hell forever. I wouldn't care about my soul being tortured, as long as I live my purpose. If I do have children in the future, and he/she becomes gay or have a really bad disease, I will fully support him/her no matter what. and I will die happy knowing I supported my possible children as much as I can.

    "Now if you do not care or do not believe God and insist on being your own lord have at it...but please, I beg you (an ex-atheist who has broken all of the big ten and loved it in those days)...I beg you please (and I am going to start praying as soon as I post) do not encourage your babies in this foolish self lordship...or your wife...not if you claim to love them. Please"

    you should really respect / understand how other people live. You will meet lots of different people with different religions. You don't need to agree with those religions but just be respectful and understanding. Please. What you are doing right now is the equivalent of a hindu person telling you not to eat beef anymore because it goes against his hinduism. Hindu prohibits people to eat beef because it is against the hindu god. My future children will decide what is best for them. You cannot make them not like something if they like it if that is good for human kind. Notice what I did. I know christians are against gay/lesbian, I am not forcing them to be gay or lesbian. I let them choose what they want to be. If they don't like the same sex, okay, me and that person can still be friends because we both understand each other.

    I am not gay. I am straight but I am tolerant enough to accept gay people, not as lovers, but as friends. I will support them. If just their life style. for example, if your friends (nonchristian) like skateboarding, would you keep telling them to stop skateboarding because skateboarding is against god? I would like to think you would not tell them to stop their passion as long as they are good for human kind.

    Being gay is both the genetic and the environment. There is actually some study done where if the 1st born is a male, and the 2nd born is a male, the 2nd born have 33% chances of being gay.

    "The fraternal birth order effect is the name given to the observation that the more older brothers a man has, the greater the probability is that he will have a homosexual orientation. The fraternal birth order effect is the strongest known predictor of sexual orientation, with each older brother increasing a man's odds of being gay by approximately 33%"

    here is my source,
    https://www.msu.edu/~breedsm/pdf/BogaertCommentary2006.pdf
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11534970?dopt=Abstract

    Okay, since I feel strongly about accepting gay/lesbian people, and having premarital sex, I am not fit to be in God's house. I also don't want to be in a place where the lord refuse to give support to 2 same-sex people that are in love with each other. One of my closest friend is gay, and I am extremely happy that my friend found someone that loves him just as much as my close friend do. Having sex should happen when both partners are feeling horny and want to have sex, or if they want to express their emotions to each other or if they want to have children. If you don't want to have premartial sex, okay. I am not forcing you. I never want to make you want to do anything that goes against your religion.
     
  20. How do you define love?
     
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