Hell Is Immoral?

[ButterflyJones]

Very interesting. Would you please post the post # where I in any way confronted you or corrected you on your typo's?

Who REALLY Crucified Jesus?

Think back to the Prodigal Son. The son who stays and is obedient to the father is well loved and inherits all that the father has, but the son that flees and then returns is celebrated. I see this as a metaphor for salvation itself. Our fall and subsequent redemption has value, indeed has...

christianforumsite.com

 

[ButterflyJones]

Yes He did.

He also said in Matthew 25:46............"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Mark 9:48....................................................."‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
Rev. 21:8...."But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Do YOU think that those Scriptures are a lie or in some way are not valid or truthful?????

Now, please feel free to ignore everything I say! NO ONE has to accept my posts. I AM NOT THE AUTHORITY.

However, my advice is to ignore the Bloggers on the internet, and instead get into the Word of God.

I have gotten into the word of God.

I trust God knew what he was talking about in matters of sin and death.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Now, honestly, is that something new for you????

When your children were little and crawling and just walking, did you have to teach them to steal that toy from their brother?
Did you have to teach your child to lie when you caught him eating those cookies you told him not eat????
No one has to teach a child to lie; rather, we must go to great lengths to impress upon children the value of telling the truth. Toddlers are naturally selfish, with their innate, although faulty, understanding that everything is “mine.” Sinful behavior comes naturally for the little ones because they are born sinners.

Christianity 101 says that we are all born sinners with sinful, selfish natures. That is neither fair or unfair. It is however the consequences of our grandparents for sinned and sin was imputed to all men.

We, you and me are sinners in FOUR ways..........
1. By actions.
2. By nature
3. By imputation
4. The whole estate of man is under sin.

Every one of us are affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions.
Everyone of us has a sin nature and you will till the day you die!

Do you believe newborns and children are sinners? And should they die as newborns or children, will go to Hell?

 

[bobinfaith]

Do you believe newborns and children are sinners? And should they die as newborns or children, will go to Hell?

Hello ButterflyJones;

That is a great question. On one hand I have shared no, newborn children are not sinners but even in the womb before birth there are Biblical passages in which babies are under sin.

David's plea in Psalm 51 of forgiveness for himself to God for his iniquities;

In Psalm 51:5, 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. - NKJV

My wife and I lost our baby when she was 6 months pregnant. I believe our baby's spirit is in the embrace of God, however, is he forgiven under God's grace? He only lived 6 months.

Again, that is a great question, one that I'm still trying to reconcile in the Scriptures and my baby son.

God bless you, sister, and your family.

 

[forgiven61]

here is the problem in discussion

Ecclesiastes 7:29

King James Version

​

29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. other translations read's schemes . schemes /inventions comes from thoughts.

as john MacArthur uses the phrase Strange fire. very few you tube preachers do i care for. other than the few i trust names of Stanley Jeremiah Rogers . yes i run onto few others there is a man who works in a coal mine eh preaches about 10-15 minutes at the coal mine break room.. pretty sound doctrine. if you tube depended on me to watch a bunch a you tube preaching. they would shut down.

i know this might be offensive but i simply do not need YouTube on preaching or to bring out a thought. way to much strange fire

 

[forgiven61]

My wife and I lost our baby when she was 6 months pregnant. I believe our baby's spirit is in the embrace of God, however, is he forgiven under God's grace? He only lived 6 months.

Again, that is a great question, one that I'm still trying to reconcile in the Scriptures and my baby son.

i will assure you that 6 month old is in the arms of Jesus

 

[ButterflyJones]

Hello ButterflyJones;

That is a great question. On one hand I have shared no, newborn children are not sinners but even in the womb before birth there are Biblical passages in which babies are under sin.

David's plea in Psalm 51 of forgiveness for himself to God for his iniquities;

In Psalm 51:5, 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. - NKJV

My wife and I lost our baby when she was 6 months pregnant. I believe our baby's spirit is in the embrace of God, however, is he forgiven under God's grace? He only lived 6 months.

Again, that is a great question, one that I'm still trying to reconcile in the Scriptures and my baby son.

God bless you, sister, and your family.

Unborn babies are never condemned sinners. Never.

King David was in no position to speak about all people's conception. Rather, he was referring to his own conception.

 

[ButterflyJones]

The fact of our sin nature is not new to me, nor is the fact that we are tainted by it (although I am not sure 'tainted' is the correct word).

Absolutely! This leads to my point: we teach children not to do these things, we don't throw them in jail for them and we certainly don't torture them with fire. Now, yes -- I know -- at a certain point, namely when children grow up and are no longer children, we do throw them in jail for such things. But still, we don't torture them with fire.

Extending my analogy, are we to equate death with the age of majority? Is death somehow the point at which we are no longer eligible for correction and now must be forever tortured? If that's how God wants it then so be it, but I don't think that's how it works. Like I said, I think there is more to it.

I would suggest we be wary of any teaching that implies or states innocent babies and very young children are not innocents. But rather are sinners who wilfully sin and deserve Hell.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

ButterflyJones “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God." (Mark 10:14)

 

[Major]

Who REALLY Crucified Jesus?

Think back to the Prodigal Son. The son who stays and is obedient to the father is well loved and inherits all that the father has, but the son that flees and then returns is celebrated. I see this as a metaphor for salvation itself. Our fall and subsequent redemption has value, indeed has...

christianforumsite.com

You got to kidding all of us, especially me.!! I am sorry but I am FOTFL right now! That comment has NOTHING what so ever to do with me confronting YOU with a spelling problem that YOU accused me of doing.

 

[Major]

I have gotten into the word of God.

I trust God knew what he was talking about in matters of sin and death.

Now think about what YOU just said............"I trust God knew what he was talking about in matters of sin and death."

Who else would YOU trust on matters of sin and death???

 

[Major]

Do you believe newborns and children are sinners? And should they die as newborns or children, will go to Hell?

Do I believe that newborn children are sinners is your question to me.

Now as you stated........"I have gotten into the word of God.".
That being the case then why don't we ask God what He thinks, shall we.................
In Romans 5:12 God said........
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:".
What does that mean?

It means that every one of us was affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions. Romans 5:18 says....."One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.

We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we are all children of Adam.

Proverbs 22:15..............."Folly (Sin) is bound up in the heart of a child,

In Psalms 22:15 David tells us that.......... “Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me”.

Then in Psalms 58:3............“Even from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies”.

Now since YOU "Have gotten into the Word of God"...........What now is your understanding of newborns as sinners? Do YOU think that God knows about SIN and Death now"????

Because we are born sinners, we must experience a second, spiritual birth. We are born once into Adam’s family and are sinners by nature. When we are born again, we are born into God’s family and are given the nature of Christ.

Much like the doctrine on Hell.........there are some things that WE do not like. Our brain and heart just will not accept them. However, that is why GOD is in control of all things and not us.

 

[Major]

I hear ya, brother. It's just difficult to swallow the fact that our crime is our very existence. If that's how God feels then it would have been better he not spare Noah nor his family. Clean slate.

O but He did exactly that. It was a clean slate! Only 8 people out of millions were saved.

My I say to you that our existence is not our crime. It is our NATURE that we sin because we are sinners. We exist because we are alive.
Because we are alive and have a sin nature that we sin.

That explains the Grace and Mercy of God in that will we were sinners He loved us enough to die for us.

 

[Major]

Do you believe newborns and children are sinners? And should they die as newborns or children, will go to Hell?

Do you believe newborns and children are sinners? And should they die as newborns or children, will go to Hell?You asked ........"And should they die as newborns or children, will go to Hell?"

Now please pay close attention to what I am saying to you. One of the most often-used weapons in the skeptic’s arsenal and Atheists is to seize statements from religious people that make God look like a cruel despot waiting to cast any and everyone into a torturous lake of eternal fire especially newborn innocent babies.

Pay attention.....what you are saying probably came from a SKEPTIC BLOGGER. The truth is very different because The Bible nowhere teaches that babies go to hell if they die in infancy. Neither does it teach that babies inherit the sins of their parents. Although many skeptics have tried to portray God as an evil tyrant Who condemns innocent children to eternal destruction, their arguments are without merit or any semblance of biblical credence.

You have testified that "You are getting into the Word of God". Great......now that you are, BELIVE what the Bible says my dear friend.

Luke 18:16-17, Jesus remarked:........
“Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

Matthew 18:3-5:

Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

I have no idea how my post came like you see it.

 

[Major]

I would suggest we be wary of any teaching that implies or states innocent babies and very young children are not innocents. But rather are sinners who wilfully sin and deserve Hell.

But that is not true now is it.

Proverbs 22:15 says otherwise.........."Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child;..."
Foolishness in the Scriptures, especially in the Book of Proverbs (Proverbs 14:8,18,24; 19:3; 22:15; 27:22), is self-defined as behavior countering the truth of God. In other words, one shuns God’s truth to follow one’s heart. Behavior, contrary to God’s Word, is always counterproductive—this is why the word “foolishness” or “folly” is used. The Lord classifies each child as foolish despite how cute they are.

The root of this all comes down to the fact that we as parents, favor our children and even spoil them. I did!
It’s hard to accept the judgment of God upon our children, but this does not make them innocent.

Where does this thinking then come from?????

Due to the rise of humanism, many Christians have unknowingly embraced some teachings of the world, including our children’s good nature. They wish the best for their children and hope, magically perhaps, that this wish will become true.
The Word of God as seen Proverbs 22:15 does not at all agree with this approach! Our hope begins with training our children.

Humanism has gone far beyond the neutrality of a child’s innocence and teaches natural goodness for all—despite whether they openly do evil things (evil for them are people who hold back others’ expressions). They vehemently detest people’s inherent sinful inclinations and God’s judgment, and therefore, suggest that is wrong to hinder the expression of a person’s desires. (They cannot fully carry this out as evil brings increasing harm to others.) Humanism has unfortunately paved the path for a society to slide towards greater immorality and decay.


Your thought is Correct but those comments come from SKEPTICS and ATHESISTS who use that kind of thinking to make God look like monster.

 

[Major]

Unborn babies are never condemned sinners. Never.

King David was in no position to speak about all people's conception. Rather, he was referring to his own conception.

I really do not think that I should need to teach this basic doctrine of Bible truth to anyone. Now please understand BJ that I am speaking through YOU to all those who read what we post. I do not want anyone to think wrongly about Bible truth.

So then, the answer to your comment is NO. ALL babies are sinners. That is verified all through the Scriptures and it is actually a NONE starter.

Then Yes, the Bible teaches that we are all born sinners with sinful, selfish natures. That is exactly why God said that unless we are born again by the Spirit of God, we will never see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

The Bible clearly teaches us that Humanity is totally depraved; that is, all of us have a sinful nature that affects every part of us which is exactly what we read in Isaiah 53:6; & Romans 7:14. The question is, where did that sinful nature come from?

If we were not born sinners, then did we simply choose to become sinners sometime after birth? Who in the world could confirm that kind of thinking??? It comes from the mind of SKEPTICS and HUMANISTS who seek to make God out to be some kind of hateful monster out to kill, and destroy!

However, the truth of GOD'S Word tells us plainly that we are born with a SINFUL NATURE, and we inherited it from Adam.

Romans 5:12...........“Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people”.

Every one of us was affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions.
Romans 5:18............“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.

We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we were all in the seed of Adam.

Scripture indicates that even children have a sin nature, which argues for the fact that we are born sinners.

Proverbs 22:15.......“Folly is bound up in the heart of a child”.

David says, Psalms 51:5....“Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me”.

Psalms 58:3............................“Even from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies”.

Before we were saved, Ephesians 2:3 says .....“we were by nature deserving of wrath”.
Note that we deserved God’s wrath not only because of our actions but because of our nature. That SIN nature is what we inherited from Adam.

We are born sinners, and for that reason we are unable to do good in order to please God in our natural state, or the flesh...
Romans 8:8..........“Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God”.

Ephesians 2:1 says that "We were dead in our sins before Christ raised us to spiritual life.
Simply said.............We lack any inherent spiritual good.

No one has to teach a child to lie; rather, we must go to great lengths to impress upon children the value of telling the truth. Toddlers are naturally selfish, with their innate, although faulty, understanding that everything is “mine.” Sinful behavior comes naturally for the little ones because they are born sinners.

YOU may not like that but that is what Gods Word teaches us.

 

[Major]

Hello ButterflyJones;

That is a great question. On one hand I have shared no, newborn children are not sinners but even in the womb before birth there are Biblical passages in which babies are under sin.

David's plea in Psalm 51 of forgiveness for himself to God for his iniquities;

In Psalm 51:5, 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. - NKJV

My wife and I lost our baby when she was 6 months pregnant. I believe our baby's spirit is in the embrace of God, however, is he forgiven under God's grace? He only lived 6 months.

Again, that is a great question, one that I'm still trying to reconcile in the Scriptures and my baby son.

God bless you, sister, and your family.

YOU and I know that your baby is in heaven! YOU know that!

ALL babies come under the GRACE of God just as does mentally ill.

We also had a grandchild lost before delivery and of course we did not like it but we never ever thought anything but that the baby was now safe in the arms of God.

 

[ButterflyJones]

I really do not think that I should need to teach this basic doctrine of Bible truth to anyone. Now please understand BJ that I am speaking through YOU to all those who read what we post. I do not want anyone to think wrongly about Bible truth.

So then, the answer to your comment is NO. ALL babies are sinners. That is verified all through the Scriptures and it is actually a NONE starter.

Then Yes, the Bible teaches that we are all born sinners with sinful, selfish natures. That is exactly why God said that unless we are born again by the Spirit of God, we will never see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

The Bible clearly teaches us that Humanity is totally depraved; that is, all of us have a sinful nature that affects every part of us which is exactly what we read in Isaiah 53:6; & Romans 7:14. The question is, where did that sinful nature come from?

If we were not born sinners, then did we simply choose to become sinners sometime after birth? Who in the world could confirm that kind of thinking??? It comes from the mind of SKEPTICS and HUMANISTS who seek to make God out to be some kind of hateful monster out to kill, and destroy!

However, the truth of GOD'S Word tells us plainly that we are born with a SINFUL NATURE, and we inherited it from Adam.

Romans 5:12...........“Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people”.

Every one of us was affected by Adam’s sin; there are no exceptions.
Romans 5:18............“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”.

We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we were all in the seed of Adam.

Scripture indicates that even children have a sin nature, which argues for the fact that we are born sinners.

Proverbs 22:15.......“Folly is bound up in the heart of a child”.

David says, Psalms 51:5....“Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me”.

Psalms 58:3............................“Even from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies”.

Before we were saved, Ephesians 2:3 says .....“we were by nature deserving of wrath”.
Note that we deserved God’s wrath not only because of our actions but because of our nature. That SIN nature is what we inherited from Adam.

We are born sinners, and for that reason we are unable to do good in order to please God in our natural state, or the flesh...
Romans 8:8..........“Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God”.

Ephesians 2:1 says that "We were dead in our sins before Christ raised us to spiritual life.
Simply said.............We lack any inherent spiritual good.

No one has to teach a child to lie; rather, we must go to great lengths to impress upon children the value of telling the truth. Toddlers are naturally selfish, with their innate, although faulty, understanding that everything is “mine.” Sinful behavior comes naturally for the little ones because they are born sinners.

YOU may not like that but that is what Gods Word teaches us.

You have my deepest sympathies.


For all others, consider what is being proposed by errant savage exegetical false teachings, in any Biblical subject.

In this instance innocent babies in utero and newborn, and God.
They're damned sinners

Which, if the exegete is to remain consistent, means the stillborn, the SIDS newborn, go to Hell when they die.
Because God said so. Per the exegete being proposed.

Now consider all scripture must be in a consistent context to the narrative of an all loving Savior God.

Recall Jesus , who is-was God on Earth, and that teaching in Matthew 19:13-14 and Luke 18:16-17.

Jesus is telling the people of the way, "Christians", that we are to become like little condemned sinners.

No?
Precisely right.

A baby is never a sinner. We are not guilty of sin unless or until we violate God's spiritual laws .

Any parent knows babies and newborns are innocent and act out as innocents.


There are denominations that teach God condemns babies in the womb.

However, that is not what God says.
Remember, context and consistency in the narrative.
God says sin is not passed to others, Ezekiel 18:20.


When that is true of us, it would be God's contradiction were Adams sin to pass to the unborn and newborn.

 

[bobinfaith]

i will assure you that 6 month old is in the arms of Jesus

YOU and I know that your baby is in heaven! YOU know that! ALL babies come under the GRACE of God just as does mentally ill. We also had a grandchild lost before delivery and of course we did not like it but we never ever thought anything but that the baby was now safe in the arms of God.

Thank you, brothers, for the encouragement. I was having a "doubting" moment.

God bless you, your children and grandchildren.

 

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