Hell Is A Real Place!

Major

Major

Supporter
That seems like a rather innocuous statement to place on a Christian web forum. I make the statement without reservations.

It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. However, According to the Bible, there is more spoken about hell as a real place than there is heaven.

It will be interesting to see if that is what happens from responces here.
 
Hello Major;

I also teach the Bible and though I'm a talker, God has helped me be a listener of the Word but there's so much more to grow and learn. How many times in the New Testament did Jesus say, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

It's clear that hell is very much real as heaven is in the Old and New Testaments, all God's Word.

Deuteronomy 32:22, Daniel 12:2, Psalm 37:10, etc...Hell that is described in the Old Testament requires deeper understanding of what God is teaching His servant Prophets to say to His people.

Hell is emphasized more in the New Testament such as the teachings in the Gospels of Matthew 10:28-29, Mark 9:43, Luke 16:19-31, John 12:47-48, etc...

If we are going to weigh the credibility of hell amongst believers then ALL OF US need to LISTEN WHILE STUDYING God's Word, and the LEARNING by His teachers, humbly with discernment.

By remaining daily in the Gospel, the Good News about Jesus and remembering and trusting God's promises, will He protect us from treacherous teachers, or figuring out the Bible on our own.

God bless you, Major, for introducing this important fact, Hell Is A Real Place!
 
Scripture does make reference to Hell, lake of fire. I can't and don't care to think about it.
How ever it is there is, I'm sure, one important component that is missing there and that is hope.
But we also understand that Hell is not eternal, eternal separation from God yes but only God is eternal. It may exist for eons but it will finally expire.

The thought: In heaven we won't stress over anything yet I expect we will be fully aware. How then can these two conditions coexist, heaven and hell - or maybe they don't? Heaven being eternal and hell finite.

I don't expect this to go anywhere but can I put the blame on you Major for starting the topic?
 
2404 said:
Scripture does make reference to Hell, lake of fire. I can't and don't care to think about it.
How ever it is there is, I'm sure, one important component that is missing there and that is hope.
But we also understand that Hell is not eternal, eternal separation from God yes but only God is eternal. It may exist for eons but it will finally expire.

The thought: In heaven we won't stress over anything yet I expect we will be fully aware. How then can these two conditions coexist, heaven and hell - or maybe they don't? Heaven being eternal and hell finite.

I don't expect this to go anywhere but can I put the blame on you Major for starting the topic?
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Hello brother. As you can see, there is not much interest in one of the only two locations of eternal destinies!

Either NO ONE cares or NO ONE knows.

Luke 16:23–24
"and in Hades,(Hell) being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Now, in case someone has the idea that this is a "Parable".........NO IT IS NOT!
Parable's do not have Proper names!
Second.....Even if it was, why would it being a Parable mean that it is in some way not believable as the Word of God?
 
crossnote said:
All it should take is for Jesus to speak once about a topic and it becomes the Real McCoy.
The reality of hell has always been a deep concern for me; both from the perspective of what we‘re rescued from and those heading pell mell to a Godless eternity.
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I agree!
2404 said:
Scripture does make reference to Hell, lake of fire. I can't and don't care to think about it.
How ever it is there is, I'm sure, one important component that is missing there and that is hope.
But we also understand that Hell is not eternal, eternal separation from God yes but only God is eternal. It may exist for eons but it will finally expire.

The thought: In heaven we won't stress over anything yet I expect we will be fully aware. How then can these two conditions coexist, heaven and hell - or maybe they don't? Heaven being eternal and hell finite.

I don't expect this to go anywhere but can I put the blame on you Major for starting the topic?
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Yes you may! I am a REALIST and a LITERALIST!
WHEN we get to heaven we will not stress over who we know in hell. BUT those in Hell will know who is not there with them.

Not caring or thinking or knowing about it does not make it go away. That is the "Ostrich" effect. The Ostrich sticks his head in a hole to escape the Lion, and the Lion eats him and leaves his legs standing up.

The Bible says in 1 Peter 3:15........
"But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,"
 
I know it's on earth. I drove through it last summer... 😉


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Yes, Hell is a real location, BUT

What you choose to meditate on will take toll on your outlook.
While believers need to be aware of both possible locations to spend eternity, our focus needs to be on the things above.

Colossians 3:1-2 (NASB)
1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2   Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

These verses speak about things in Heaven vs things on Earth, of which Hell belongs to neither but our meditations are still to be dominated by the things of Heaven.

Because of our faith in the Lord, hell has no dominion..
 
Siloam said:
Yes, Hell is a real location, BUT

What you choose to meditate on will take toll on your outlook.
While believers need to be aware of both possible locations to spend eternity, our focus needs to be on the things above.

Colossians 3:1-2 (NASB)
1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2   Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

These verses speak about things in Heaven vs things on Earth, of which Hell belongs to neither but our meditations are still to be dominated by the things of Heaven.

Because of our faith in the Lord, hell has no dominion..
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Absolutly correct!

But ignorance is NOT bliss as we should always be prepared to give an answer to those who ask us.
 
Major said:
Hello brother. As you can see, there is not much interest in one of the only two locations of eternal destinies!

Either NO ONE cares or NO ONE knows.

Luke 16:23–24
"and in Hades,(Hell) being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Now, in case someone has the idea that this is a "Parable".........NO IT IS NOT!
Parable's do not have Proper names!
Second.....Even if it was, why would it being a Parable mean that it is in some way not believable as the Word of God?
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Curious! where do we find a rule that parables do not use proper names?
The name Lazarus might mean "whom God helps." This could differentiate the beggar from the rich man, other than in monetary terms.
Also, it could be because Jesus was going to raise Lazarus from the dead, and some were not going to believe even though someone had returned from the dead. So Jesus was foretelling.
Are we to believe that angels carry people off to heaven? There is no record of him being buried, so was he bodily carried off?
Where else in the scripture do we understand that people separated from God in hell can talk to the saved?
Do people in hell have bodies before the second resurrection talked about in Revelation?
Last, this account was in the context of many parables, starting in chapter 15.
 
thoughtfulme said:
Curious! where do we find a rule that parables do not use proper names?
The name Lazarus might mean "whom God helps." This could differentiate the beggar from the rich man, other than in monetary terms.
Also, it could be because Jesus was going to raise Lazarus from the dead, and some were not going to believe even though someone had returned from the dead. So Jesus was foretelling.
Are we to believe that angels carry people off to heaven? There is no record of him being buried, so was he bodily carried off?
Where else in the scripture do we understand that people separated from God in hell can talk to the saved?
Do people in hell have bodies before the second resurrection talked about in Revelation?
Last, this account was in the context of many parables, starting in chapter 15.
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Lots of questions at one time.

So then, Of all the parables recorded in Matthew through Luke (John does not contain parables), not one of them contains a person’s name. In Luke 16 we have LAZARUS and ABRAHAM and MOSES.

In the other Parables we see......"And He sake to them in a parable"------so If the account of the rich man and Lazarus were a parable, the Holy Spirit should have made sure to notify the audience that this “graphic story” was merely a parable and not literal truth. Remember, this passage has been used for centuries to defend the reality of eternal hellfire.

Note.........the Lazarus in Luke 16 is NOT the same Lazarus Jesus raised from the dead!!!!

Yes to angels carrying people to heaven. It seems to be what the Bible says in Luke 16.

In the passage in Luke 16.....Lazarus is speaking to Abraham over a "Great Gulf" that at that time seperated Paradise from Torments in Sheol/Hades/Hell. That is no longer the case as all saints who die now go to heaven.

NO> Their souls/spirts are in Hell now and will be reunited at the 2nd Resurrection in the Revealtion.

The last parable of chapter 16 (in the context) ended with verse 8. That was over 10 verses prior to Jesus mentioning the rich man and Lazarus. Jesus began to speak literal truths from verse 9 of chapter 16 onward and into chapter 17. If it were a parable, Jesus left much room for ambiguities and uncertainties; He never explained what the elements symbolized. This lack of explanation is the strongest indication that no symbolism was involved. Luke 16:19-31 was literal.

I hope this is a help to you! Thanks for asking.
 
Just because Jesus does not use a person's name in a parable does create a rule that parables cannot use names. It is possible that other parables were actual events, but Jesus did not mention names because nobody would know who these people were. That leads to the next question what does it matter if we know the beggar's name?

As I said, this story is included in a list of parables. If you go back and read from chapter 15:1, Jesus mentions He is speaking in parables and then tells four of them before this one as saying nothing about them being parables. Therefore we are to assume He is continually telling them.

I know it is not the same Lazarus. I never said that. I said Jesus could foretell how some people would react after seeing someone raised from the dead. Some did believe and went and told the Pharisees.

What other passages can you provide to prove your statement about the separation of Abraham's bosom and Torments? Jesus speaks of hell being darkness, so how could he see Abraham far off?

If people in hell do not have bodies, why does he claim he has a tongue?

Last, every parable contains real things; not one parable I know of is entirely fictitious. For instance, do men have sheep, and can they lose one? Did women have silver doweries? Do men have sons and are their far countries? Do men waste goods and lose jobs over it? Every parable is made up from reality, so we cannot dismiss the parable of Lazarus as having no truth. I would be cautious about being too literal about the parable. Why? All other parable deal with our world, and this story is about the other world. From all the other accounts of the spiritual world, it is hard to describe. I think of Isiah in the presence of God and having a flying snake put coals on his tongue. Ezekiel was talking about wheels and winged creatures. Revelation with locusts that looks like men but have features of animals.
 
thoughtfulme said:
Just because Jesus does not use a person's name in a parable does create a rule that parables cannot use names. It is possible that other parables were actual events, but Jesus did not mention names because nobody would know who these people were. That leads to the next question what does it matter if we know the beggar's name?

As I said, this story is included in a list of parables. If you go back and read from chapter 15:1, Jesus mentions He is speaking in parables and then tells four of them before this one as saying nothing about them being parables. Therefore we are to assume He is continually telling them.

I know it is not the same Lazarus. I never said that. I said Jesus could foretell how some people would react after seeing someone raised from the dead. Some did believe and went and told the Pharisees.

What other passages can you provide to prove your statement about the separation of Abraham's bosom and Torments? Jesus speaks of hell being darkness, so how could he see Abraham far off?

If people in hell do not have bodies, why does he claim he has a tongue?

Last, every parable contains real things; not one parable I know of is entirely fictitious. For instance, do men have sheep, and can they lose one? Did women have silver doweries? Do men have sons and are their far countries? Do men waste goods and lose jobs over it? Every parable is made up from reality, so we cannot dismiss the parable of Lazarus as having no truth. I would be cautious about being too literal about the parable. Why? All other parable deal with our world, and this story is about the other world. From all the other accounts of the spiritual world, it is hard to describe. I think of Isiah in the presence of God and having a flying snake put coals on his tongue. Ezekiel was talking about wheels and winged creatures. Revelation with locusts that looks like men but have features of animals.
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Yes it does.

NO. There are no other Scriptures about Abrahams bosom. Do you think that more than ONE statement From God validated His Word?

There is Ephesians 4:8-10
"Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)"

Psalms 16:10.......
"For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption."

Specificity of PROPER names then means it must be a "literal" event.
Since Jesus used proper names then what He said HAD TO BE LITERAL event or it would be a lie and God can not lie.

The Luke 16 account does not fit the definition of a parable, which is a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration.

Luke 16 is never called a parable.

I can not agree with your last statement. The parable tells a story, not about something recurrent in real life, but about a one-time event which is fictitious. While the parables are fictitious, however, they never indulge in the fanciful or fantastic, but remain true-to-life. They derive their persuasiveness from being told in a simple, vivid and fresh way which allows us to relate to the lesson Jesus was trying to teach.

Luke 16 does not meet that threshold as it is about a real historical event, hence the Proper names.

You asked.......
"If people in hell do not have bodies, why does he claim he has a tongue?"

My dear brother.......FIGURATIVE language. Same as for "EYES" to SEE Abraham.
 
Yes, it does! I am sorry, but the word of God is my authority, and unless you can prove it from scripture, I will disagree. Plus, you verified I am correct with this statement, "which is a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration." A real-life event can be an illustration. I hear them from pulpits weekly.

I clearly showed you, and you refuse to acknowledge that Jesus told many parables without first stating they were parables. Luke 16 does not mean a thing; the context does. Chapter markers are not context markers. They may or may not follow the context.

I am trying to be reasonable here, but you are just making statements without proof. You have no evidence that Jesus did not know of a woman who lost her dowery. He could have heard His mother Marry, speak of a friend who lost her coin, and she was frantic. When she found the coin, Jesus remembered what his mom had said; she was so excited. I am not claiming this happened, but there is no way you can prove that Jesus did not base some of his parables on things he knew took place.

I like how you say the tongue and the eyes were "figurative" when it fits your liking, but none of the other parts can be figurative, such as the great gulf.

The pulpit commentary calls it a parable, "The object of the parable, as we shall see, did not include any detailed account of the beggar-man's inner life; just this name is given him to show us why, when he died, he found himself at once in bliss." Luke 16 Pulpit Commentary (biblehub.com)

In H.A. Ironside's commentary on Luke, he has this to say. "On the hand, if we think of any incident used to illustrate truth as a parabolic, then it is perfectly right to speak of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus."

You don't have the ground to stand on to make your claim about it not being a parable. You were just told that if it has a name, it is not a parable. I was told that and believed it, but I have found no proof of that being accurate.

Last, just because I know it is a parable because Jesus used the story to show the Pharisees how covetous they were (Luke 16:8-14) does not mean we can believe Jesus was not being truthful about people who trust in themselves will end up in torment, and those who trust in God will be comforted.

I know it is hard for people to change what they have previously believed. All religions have this problem; the Pharisees crucified Jesus because they did not like what they were hearing.
 
Major said:
That seems like a rather innocuous statement to place on a Christian web forum. I make the statement without reservations. It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. However, According to the Bible, there is more spoken about hell as a real place than there is heaven. It will be interesting to see if that is what happens from responces here.
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Hello brothers and sisters;

I have been following the opening thread and reviewed the kind of responses the topic would get. I have concerns. Whether we agree, disagree, agree to disagree or stand by what we believe, it can all remain in the realm of healthy fellowship for the benefit of learning from each other with love and respect.

Dismissing others by using statements such as "you're wrong", "what authority do you make your claim," "you're making statements without proof," etc...is not respectable to the author who initiates the thread.

The world wide public sees our witness in the way we fellowship, pray and discuss topics. Personally, many times when I wanted to jump in and post, after praying I was led not to post.

The staff prayerfully monitors the author's initial threads and member's posts and will hold all accountable (or edit/delete if necessary) when the fellowship deters from a friendly Christian forum.

Let's all remember to be prayerful and receiving before we post instead of dismissing and reactive. Many times the former can be profitable in our discussions.

The staff is available to discuss further the forum rules with anyone via pm.

God bless you all and your families.
 
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