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Grace VS LAW

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by THALLON, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. This is my understanding of Christianity as I practice it.

    Grace relates to Salvation and Justification, but not to ongoing sanctification.

    Repentance and Confession are fundamental aspects of Christian life relating to Sanctification, ie a purifying work. The purifying is not to obtain Salvation, nor to be justified, but to grow and change and take on the nature of God.

    What is God’s nature: the Law. The Law as an expression of love and not religion.

    The Law did not cease with Christ, indeed He expanded the law with the lesser commandments.

    He came to fulfil the Law requirements of sacrifice for sins, but not to abolish the law and its practice as relating to love.

    You cannot be justified by the Law, you are sanctified by keeping the Law.

    The Law cannot be understood as a religious act but only from the basis of love.

    For example: God did not create the Sabbath as a religious ritual but because He understood that men would work 7 days a week till they dropped dead, that’s not good. God rested on the 7th day and rest is good. that day can be Saturday, sunday, Wednesday or any day. religion stuffs you up with ritual.

    Tithing if you read Deut 14 was to be wholly consumed by YOU, not donated or given away until the third year. If you tithe 10% you are missing the point, as tithing is an act of thanks and love not religion.

    And all the laws are about LOVE. LEARNING WHAT LOVE IS, HOW LOVE IS PRACTICED.

    Stealing, murder, adultery, lying, etc are all to be understood as changes from the inside and not religious laws.

    The Law as practiced as religion is dead if it is on the outside of you, you have not changed inside so you are dead.

    The law must be written on your heart as a fundamental part of your nature and desire.
    Repentance and confession are part of the correcting focus inside, but if they become purely a religious practice then they are worthless.
    If we continue to sin without repentance and confession then we trample on the work of Christ on the cross. Christ has also broken the power of sin over us.
    Can you overcome sin in your own efforts? Maybe some things and some things you have to surrender to the Holy Spirit and say : “ I give up, I give it to you, deal with it.” He will.
    THE HOLY SPIRIT is a vital part of our Christian walk.
    He is the guide, counsellor, helper and the power. Jesus had no power until He was baptised with the Holy Spirit.
    If you do not have the Holy Spirit you are only practicing what? A religion equal with islam, Buddhism, Hinduism because they can all argue they are the truth,
    Power endorses the truth of Jesus Christ.

    1 john 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.…

    James….And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail. 17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would

    Psalm 32 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; My vitality was drained away as with the fever heat of summer. Selah. 5I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"; And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah. 6Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found; Surely

    Numbers……..Speak to the sons of Israel, 'When a man or woman commits any of the sins of mankind, acting unfaithfully against the LORD, and that person is guilty, 7then he shall confess his sins which he has committed, and he shall make restitution in full for his wrong and add to it one-fifth of it, and give it to him whom he has wronged. 8But if the man has no relative to whom restitution may be made for the wrong, the

    Luke…And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.…

    I think most churches and Christians swing between two extremes,
    1. Grace
    2. Law.
    Grace in its extreme allows anything, requires no repentance or confession as it says Jesus has done it all. Such grace leads to sin and tramples the work of Christ.
    Law in its extreme replaces Christ as our Justification and leads to cults requiring all sorts of weird stuff.
    When the Law is in your heart then it becomes grace.
  2. Actually the law is abolished according to the New Testament, (2nd Corinthians 3:7) and we are no longer "under it".
    We are under "Grace".
    We, the born again, dont keep the Law to be sanctified, but rather Jesus has become unto us our sanctification, as well as our redemption.
    Our position as believers is "in Christ", and we cant possibly become more sanctified.
    However, we are to present our bodies a living sacrifice.
    We are to walk in the light as He is in the light.
    We are to live holy as He is holy...
    But all of that is discipleship, which does not affect our redeemed position in Christ.
    "Theologically and "Literally ... = Salvation is What God did for us that creates us to be as Holy as Jesus, = "the Gift of righteousness",
    So, that is God's perspective of us......BUT, in our daily life, we are to choose to live as God would have it, and that is "be holy as I am", which is our discipleship..
    And these are not the same thing........as God gives us Salvation as a Gift, and then we behave as Disciples of Christ because we are saved, but not to try to keep ourselves saved.
    Complete and Major say Amen and like this.
  3. In most part I agree with you. I would however add that Law is only God's commandment, but Grace is the power of God. Christ is the end of the Law, because he satisfied all the demands of the Law in Himself. Christ put an end to the Law by His death, because the Law had the penalty of death within it, and Christ died according to the demands of the Law. He concludes the Law. We Christians are married to another.

    In regard to sanctification the Bible says in Romans 6:14...........................
    "Sin shall not have dominion over you; for you are not under law but under grace."

    The Mosaic Law was set aside at the dispersion in 70 A.D. It will not come to the fore again until the tribulation period. It was given to ISRAEL, not to the Gentile nations and certainly not to the church.

    We are now in a new dispensation! The Church is a parenthesis between the Age of Law, and the Time of Jacob's Trouble. Not just in regard to being saved, but in regard to our Christian walk as well. We, in Christ, have God's nature indwelling us; the ten commandments are all repeated, excepting for the Sabbath keeping, in the New Testament instructions for the Church ; we Christians have a much higher, more loving, Spirit-filled Life to manifest.

    What does all of this mean??? I am glad you asked!

    We are neither JUSTIFIED by keeping the Law, or SANCTIFIED by keeping the Law. We should not teach salvation by law, nor sanctification by the law, bringing people again into bondage to law, when we are DEAD to it altogether!

    Consider Romans 7:6 as it teaches this! ............
    "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead in which we were held, that we should serve in newness of Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter".
    KingJ likes this.
  4. Sounds good to me... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    """""we are justified by faith, without the deeds of the Law"""""

    """""Faith is counted as righteousness"""

    """""But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption""
    Major likes this.
  5. The born-again believer has been made to be NO longer a slave of sin!
    He/she can now CHOOSE to continue to be a habitual sinner (slave of sin),
    or to be a slave of obedience, a slave of righteousness, a slave of God!
    This choice is explained by Paul in Romans 6.
    Abdicate likes this.
  6. The reason that believers backslide a little or backslide a lot, is because their Adamic nature wants to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh.
    So, if they dont "walk in the Spirit" they will gratify the desires of the Flesh..
    Galatians 5:16
    Major likes this.
  7. And Paul makes it clear that walking in the flesh results in (eternal) death.
    I say "eternal" because Jesus doesn't go around killing habitual sinners.
  8. Well, we need to be careful when we say that all believers who are walking in the flesh will be dropping dead today, as if that is the case, then nearly all Christians will be dead by the time you read this:)
    So, certainly, if a Believer becomes a habitual hardened sinner, a person who has been dealt with by God, through Hebrews 12:6, and just continues to willfully and knowingly live in the "flesh", then after losing everything, they can certainly be taken home early.
    Thats a fact.
    Major likes this.
  9. Please read more carefully because you have misunderstood what I wrote.
    And, since when does "home" mean hell?
  10. We are to point out those who willfully sin and have nothing to do with them, but to turn them over to the enemy so they can learn.

    1 Timothy 1:20 (KJV)
    Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. ​

    1 Corinthians 5:4-11 (KJV)
    In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. ​

    Even the detailed confessions of sins leads to new ideas being introduced, seeds planted, into the minds of the innocent. Confess fault, but only enough to admit the sin, Eph 5:12.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  11. Yes, you should read more carefully what i wrote.
    As i wrote that "home" means home, for the Believer.
    This can't mean hell:)
    Major likes this.
  12. Amen!!
    God does not need or want details about your sin or reasons why. He already knows this for He saw you.

    God does not even require a list of your every sin when we get born again. He might bring something to your attention that He wants to deal with and our reply should be yes sir.

    Thank you brother for the reply.
    Major and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  13. Correct. The old nature of sin is never obliterated.
  14. I agree Jim and would only suggest to you that God will never bring up any sin from your past for any reason. Satan is the only one who will torment us with the deed of our past sin.

    Is. 43:25.......
    "I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins."

    God chooses not to remember our sins. He chooses never to bring them up again. He doesn't forget because He cannot, but He doesn't remember them either; that is, He will never bring them up again. Why? Because they have been forgiven in His Son Jesus.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  15. Agreed. The key to your comment IMO was the word......"Believer". Home for them would be heaven.

    An Example of this is a friend of mine about 40 years ago. He was a store manager for JC Penney's. He was making really good money and admitted that God placed a call upon his heart to become a preacher. He was a Christian and deacon in his church. We talked about this many times as did his own parents who encouraged him to listen to the Lord, but he would not give up his job and income to do as God clearly had told him.

    He passed away about 3 years later and on his death bed said to me........"I should have obeyed God".

    God took him home (Heaven) because this man did not obey God. Some will reject this and argue about it, of that I am very sure. However there is in the Bible a teaching referred to as "The Sin Unto Death". which is what I believe this example speaks to.

    John 5:16......
    "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

    Romans 6:15,16 shed light on 1st John 5:16...
    "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

    Some believers do live as though they were spiritually dead, even though they have Christ's Spirit living in them. This is tragic, nevertheless possible and 1st Corinthians 5:5 proves it.

    1 Corth. 5:5 is written to the believers in Corinth and says..............

    1 Corinthians 5:1 & 5........
    "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife!

    "deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
  16. Hi Major,
    I agree totally with what you said.
    I was referring along the lines that from time to time God may want to deal with something.

    Sometimes it is to make amends or something right and most times to change something you are doing or thinking.

    Major likes this.
  17. Agreed Jim. Thanks for the input.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  18. -
    That which saved us, keeps us saved.
    This is not our doing.
    This is God's Grace.
    Major likes this.

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