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Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

    It never fails to amaze me when folks hit me with the Gap Theory and other man made ideas that are not supported by the scriptures. The Gap Theory, for those that do not know, aims at the idea that the Earth and the Universe existed for billions of years, the beginning marked by verse 1, and then God, verse 2, interfered.

    The best I have ever been able to conclude is that the Evolution Creationists must have spawned this stupidity and then sought and still seek to impose it onto the scriptures. The fact of the matter is that three times God has warned us not to add nor to subtract from the scriptures and this silly idea is adding big time. We must learn to read the Word of God and to accept it, just as God commanded, by Faith.

    Gen 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

    Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

    Gen 1:5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

    Immediately, there is a Life Application, God set a rhythm for all life to follow. If the reader can take the scriptures to heart, as they read the Pentateuch, God explains the rhythm better and if we are smart we will seek to live our lives by that rhythm. The only people that should ever be excused from this Rule of Life are the soldiers that need to respond to Satan's Followers as they seek to harm us.

    Gen 1:6 Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

    Gen 1:7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.

    Gen 1:8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

    If we are not careful to read the passage and to understand it's context, it is easy to misunderstand this passage. This “Expanse” spoken of here is the region between Space and the Ground of the Earth, the area filled with the Air we breath.

    As we study this chapter it is worthy to note that God, regardless of some folks perception, is a Spirit Being and does not operate on the Twenty-Four Hour Time Period and yet, as He had Moses write this chapter, God had him divide time into twenty-four hour periods.

    Gen 1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

    We, Christians, must learn one lesson, the scriptures do not need to be reconciled with Scientific Theory. Scientific Theory is a theory, a man's or men's idea, and the Word of God is fact! In these verses we see God raising the dry lands up from the waters... for His purposes. The truth is that the Scientist can speak of Plate shift until the cows come home but that will never make it true. On the other hand, successful life is very simple, believe in God and believe God and go to Heaven! Fail at this and the result is Eternity in Hell.

    Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.

    These events are taking place about six thousand years ago, give or take, maybe a few hundred years. (I have made a, usually, unrequired concession here.) This passage is a beautiful illustration of God's love through provision for us... even before we were.

    Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

    Gen 1:15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

    Gen 1:17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,

    Gen 1:18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

    Notice the rhythm? The years I spent in combat, I spent in reaction... God does not want us to live, reacting to this or to that. Everything, to this point is done with a certain rhythm and it is impossible for the man or the woman that walks with God and talks with God to read scripture without seeing the Life Application of the scripture.

    Recently, the folks at the Fox News Channel were commenting on the instability of the Sun and yet, for all it's apparent instability, there is a certain rhythm to it's changing North and south Poles. The report stated that this rhythm can be measured in two manners, it changes poles every eleven years, that's one measure or one can state that it has a twenty-two year cycle.

    God has given everything He created a certain rhythm and if we will pay attention, it will be, greatly, to our benefit.

    Gen 1:20 Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."

    Gen 1:21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:22 God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."

    Gen 1:23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

    How can folks miss the blessings God has poured out for us? A day spent on the side of a lake or a river, seated under a 200 or 250 year old Oak Tree with your child or grandchild is a prize that has no equal in this world. And then teaching your son or grandson to hunt Dove, Gold is trivial in comparison. Man just needs to learn real value. And if we will ever get our priorities in proper alignment and learn to love God and to walk with God, then stop playing Church and just Worship from the heart, God will fill us with the Holy Spirit and everything else will fall into place.

    Gen 1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

    Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

    Gen 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

    Gen 1:29 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

    Gen 1:30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

    And on the sixth day, God finished His work with the creation of the animals and He capped it off with the creation of the Jewel of Creation, Man or to be PC, Mankind! Be careful here, we are not physical copies of God and the belief that we are has caused great heresy to creep into the LORD's Church.

    God is spirit as are all the beings, excluding Jesus, that reside in Heaven, as of this time. By definition, spirit beings have no extension in time or space and, again, by definition, man does. That simple truth evokes some good conversation. We are created, every single one of us, in the image of God and I leave this right there so that you can consider your answer and with the prayer that you will use this thought, from a silly old man, for a conversation starter.

    (All scripture is from the NASB)
  2. To my knowledge, the Gap Theory was first introduced by a man named Pember in his book, "Earth's Earliest Ages." While I don't agree with his theory, the book is well worth reading.

    In Genesis 9:6 we are told that murder is such a horrific crime because it destroys the image of God in man. So, whatever this image is, it is present in every living human being.
    th1bill likes this.
  3. And I agree but I did not name, nor did I consider mentioning, the book because it is not a good read for 8 to 12 year olds and they are likely to read these posts as they surf the Web.
  4. Bill..........for years I have been asking one simple question which has never been adaquetly answered.

    Where did the water in verse #2 come from. Notice that it is present before God begins the creation process.

    The earth was "formless and void" yet the Spirit of God moved over the waters. Where did the water come from?

    Do you have any clues???
  5. I have studied and prayed but received no answer for that one, Major. The best I can figure, from reading the passage where Lucifer is cast down, is that God, knowing He was, in His perspective, soon to create Adam, perhaps, set the Universe in place, in preparation, but making Satan's life miserable, that Earth was without form and covered with water. I know that is a loosely constructed answer but then, what does one expect from an Eighth Grade Graduate? :)
  6. Sometimes the most simple questions wind up being the hardest to explain!!

    Your answer is as good as anything I have come up with.
  7. Being that Genesis is OT and of Judaic foundation, along with the fact that Moses was raised an Egyptian, it wouldn't surprise me if these "waters" were the same Egyptian Waters of Nun, which represented the womb of the universe just prior to Creation.
  8. Hi Bill,
    Just where does the Christian bible say that "Lucifer" was cast down?
  9. Hello Etu and welcome. I know that I will enjoy your imput.

    I has done some work on the Egyptian Waters of Nun, but since they are myths I do not give them much considence, but it is a good thought that somehow the myth got caught up in the Genesis account.

    Good thought.
  10. There is nothing described of the angel story described in Genesis. But that is normal for God. He often says something and later expounds on what He said and gives meaning to it. Same as with Satan in Genesis for later in His Word, God reveals that there was a great angel, Lucifer, who rebelled against Him:

    Isaiah 14:12-14
    "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God . . . I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High'" How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    Here God explains that Lucifer had a throne, representing a position of leadership and authority. He rose from the ranks of angels to try to overthrow God, but was "cut down to the ground."
    Where was this place where Lucifer had his throne? Jesus Christ, whom we earlier saw was the "Word" alongside God at the creation, reveals more details. "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," ...Luke 10:18

    It seems to me that Lucifer, who became Satan (meaning Adversary) at his rebellion, was cast down from heaven—to the earth!
    th1bill likes this.
  11. Thanks Major and hello Etu, you might also look into Eze. 28 where it speaks of Lucifer. I believe all your questions can be answered with a copy of the Nave's Topical. If you go to e-sword.net you can download over $600 worth of free Bible Study software, including a copy of the Nave's.
  12. Greetings th1bill,
    What version would that be which mentions the name/word Lucifer?
  13. Etu,
    As I said, you need to do the study and it is quite a study. I do not deal with versions.
    Major likes this.
  14. Then it is more like 'artistic freedom'? Because the name/title/word Lucifer is not mentioned in any versions I am aware of.
  15. I do not have a dog in this hunt, only correct Biblical understanding. Maybe I am not understand your question Etu but the KJV seems very clear to me. Again I post it for your consideration:

    Isaiah 14:12-14.......KING JAMES VERSION says........
    "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God . . . I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High'" How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations".

    The reference is most certainly to Satan himself.
    th1bill likes this.
  16. Hi Bill! Are you having a good day today? I certainly pray that you are. Bless you, and may God keep you in the palm of His hand!
  17. The word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12, refers to Nebuchadnezzar the King of Babylon. Here Lucifer retains its Latin meaning "bearer of light" or "light bearer" designating the Morning Star.

    The Vulgate employs the word (Morning Star) also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). To the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28). And finally, to Jesus Christ himself (II Petr. 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the
    "Exulted" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

    The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, "to lament"; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1:14), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star.

    None of these examples IMO should be interpreted to represent the Roman deity Lucifer, the only references to a fallen angel named Lucifer comes from the Book of Enoch and this text is not fundamentally accepted as the Word of God.

    My point is that Satan should never have been associated with Lucifer in the first place.
  18. Etu,
    I am a converted Atheist and I was very good at spinning and putting words into Christians mouths to shut them up... that is the appearance you are projecting here is just that. There is no artistic license in the scriptures, that, again, was one of my lines of attack as an Atheist and I find it unnecessary in a reasonable discussion. Major has twice quoted you from the King James and I have twice suggested the study you require, only to receive lip from you. Now, I, politely ask you to stop hiding behind your computer and to act like a man of repute.
  19. Pardon me? I am not an atheist, and I am not putting words in anyone's mouth or hiding behind anything. You have a mind, use it, what could I possibly say that could sway you from your beliefs?

    Indeed using the term Lucifer was artist freedom incorporated into the Christian bible from the associations made with Satan and Fallen Angels by Milton.

    Lucifer is not Satan

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