Faith Is A Constant

netchaplain

netchaplain

One can truly believe there is a God, but lack the desire to believe in Him. Romans-One teaches that one can believe about God, that He is real, and at the same time not put trust in Him. Scripture says that He has proved to all that He is real by showing them all of what may be known about Himself (Rom 1:19). This revelation of Himself first comes by the “light” of nature, by us seeing the existence of what He has created. Creation itself is enough evidence for one to believe in God!

Therefore the Word declares none are “excused” from judgement for not wanting to believe in Him (v20). There are no genuine atheists, only those who falsely claim to disbelieve in His existence! In my opinion, the primary issue is that unbelief manifests one would rather continue in wrongful pleasures, instead of trusting and having faith in God (2Ti 3:4).

One of the greatest oxymoron concepts has to be the acceptance that one can claim to believe in God, then eventually claim not to believe in Him! To genuinely have faith in God is not something one can eventually apostatize from, because faith always produces. Faith can be diminished but never deleted once obtained. Thus, salvation is a constant like faith!

One professing Christianity can eventually claim to disbelieve, and if this is truly a permanent state of mind, it only manifests there was never any belief! One cannot claim to believe then claim to disbelieve—this wouldn’t make any type of sense at all. Genuine faith cannot become unbelief, and there’s nowhere in Scripture that declares this error, only misunderstanding of the way this issue is worded.

To believe is to be permanently convinced of something; otherwise it wasn’t belief, but just something you thought you believed in. One can think they believe in God and eventually discover that they don’t truly believe in Him; but one cannot truly believe in Him and then later truly disbelieve in Him. Therefore, we either believe, or still have yet to believe (1Jo 2:19).
NC
 
So many people want to believe in a cosmic genie that grants their every wish, but they have it backward. God is not santa claus or a genie, He does not serve us, but rather we were created to serve Him. Yes He will sometimes do some quite wonderful things for us as He pleases but He is our generous, loving God to whom we owe all.
 
netchaplain said:
One can truly believe there is a God, but lack the desire to believe in Him. Romans-One teaches that one can believe about God, In my opinion, the primary issue is that unbelief manifests one would rather continue in wrongful pleasures, instead of trusting and having faith in God (2Ti 3:4). One of the greatest oxymoron concepts has to be the acceptance that one can claim to believe in God, then eventually claim not to believe in Him! One can think they believe in God and eventually discover that they don’t truly believe in Him; but one cannot truly believe in Him and then later truly disbelieve in Him. Therefore, we either believe, or still have yet to believe (1Jo 2:19).
NC
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Hello netchaplain;

Your thread Faith Is A Constant is what we call inreach to many Christians who struggle with thoughts and attitude of "flip flopping" their belief toward God and following His only Begotten Son.

Many times I find this more challenging than outreach to the lost.

The spiritual battle between principalities of darkness versus the light is very real. All Christians are faced with this fight and not all soldiers of God fight the same pace or level.

This is why it's so vital to ask God to help us in those moments of unbelief, trust God's promises that He will never forsake us, in other words, He always goes before us and continually to build us up where we lack.

Many grow uncomfortable with the doctrine of Christianity because it feels like it takes so much to follow Jesus. Their apathy toward Christ grows and eventually are blindly convinced there is no Christ when the worst of times hit us. Their resort is life on earth becomes the last stop forever and ever, so why bother carrying on? Before one knows it, apostasy sets in. Later we learn life does not end on earth and there is only one place set aside for apostasy.

I red-lighted the same important points in your thread, Bob. These are serious and in need of mentioning again and again.

A big part of our ministry is to continue our inreach to doubting Christians. Prayer and God's guidance in the Bible will point us all in the right direction.

In Mark 9 the boy who was demonized discouraged his father by giving up. Jesus helped the father build up his faith as Jesus was healing his boy.

Mark 9:24, 24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!” - NIV

In Romans 10 God knows when our hearts are troubled and overwhelming. His Word sprinkled with our prayers goes a long way in our personal growth in faith while He builds us up.

Romans 10:17, 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. - NIV

Your thread is important and should give us much to think because none of us are invincible to the spiritual battles we face. But those who continue the good fight know in the end, JESUS WINS!

God bless you, Bob and your family.
 
bobinfaith said:
Before one knows it, apostasy sets in. Later we learn life does not end on earth and there is only one place set aside for apostasy.
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Hi Brother Bob! It's important to know that one who is reborn will never apostatize. Those who discontinue their profession of faith in God were never reborn. Can't imagine anyone believing one can become un-reborn! Apostatizing is the same as hypocrite, and the sense it that they've never been born again, or they would never want to leave God; continuance is the primary evidence of rebirth . One who is saved can never desire to leave God, for He "works" against this (Phl 2:13).

The problem with attempting to teach those who are truly saved, but immature, is they lack reading and studying the Word enough for God to teach them through others who are mature! Of course there will always be those who can't mature because they are yet to be reborn. Usually these are the hypocrites.
 
Hi netchaplain;

I understand the Christian's spiritual immaturity, cannot distinguish between flesh, feelings, discernment and lack of personal discipleship.

I've experienced only a few former Christians who were saved, they expressed their whole-hearted relationship with Christ, some preached, taught, did missions work, men and women's ministry but they ended up converting to Islam, Buddhism, Hindu, atheism. These were proclaimed Christians who eventually apostatized.

In my conversations with the few that I know did not decide rashishly. This saddens me.

Have you experienced this in your ministry?
 
bobinfaith said:
These were proclaimed Christians who eventually apostatized.

In my conversations with the few that I know did not decide rashishly. This saddens me.

Have you experienced this in your ministry?
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The revealing of hypocrisy is often very time consuming, taking years before it manifests itself--and it will always manifest itself (Num 32:23; 1Jo 2:19). Many keep occupied with the appearance of being Christian, eventually find out (even themselves could be unaware) that their heart has never been truly with God. The Father will not allow one to continue in error, esp. if you're not aware of it yourself.
 
netchaplain said:
Hi Brother Bob! It's important to know that one who is reborn will never apostatize. Those who discontinue their profession of faith in God were never reborn. Can't imagine anyone believing one can become un-reborn! Apostatizing is the same as hypocrite, and the sense it that they've never been born again, or they would never want to leave God; continuance is the primary evidence of rebirth . One who is saved can never desire to leave God, for He "works" against this (Phl 2:13).

The problem with attempting to teach those who are truly saved, but immature, is they lack reading and studying the Word enough for God to teach them through others who are mature! Of course there will always be those who can't mature because they are yet to be reborn. Usually these are the hypocrites.
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This is a slippery slope topic... Seems too easy for others to DECIDE whether we are truly saved or NOT and that is NOT our job.
Often times... sin comes from being at a point of REALLY being broken. Faith is a gift... and some have deeper faith than others.
I think we ought be VERY CAREFUL with a topic like this.
 
In Awe of Him said:
This is a slippery slope topic... Seems too easy for others to DECIDE whether we are truly saved or NOT and that is NOT our job.
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Hi and thanks for the reply and comments! We're not to suspect any individual as being unsaved; but it's our duty out of love to inform one another of what we think is truth.
In Awe of Him said:
Often times... sin comes from being at a point of REALLY being broken.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean here.
In Awe of Him said:
Faith is a gift... and some have deeper faith than others.
I think we ought be VERY CAREFUL with a topic like this.
Click to expand...
Yes, faith varies in strength, some weak and some strong. I believe the strength of faith is mostly determined by how much Word one keeps in thought, and how deep one desires to read and study it. It is the Word that brought us faith, and it's the Word that grows our faith to ever increasing maturity!

Of course for faith to increase (it never goes backward or diminishes but is always on the increase) it must always be out of love, for "Faith works by love" (Gal 5:6).

Thanks for your caring reply and comments!
 
netchaplain said:
Not sure what you mean here.
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Dearest Net Chaplain... I need to apologize to you... I took OFFENCE to this thread... and so I should not even have posted my thoughts.

What I mean by my comment is NOT to justify sin... but rather to point out that at times... we sin because our faith is NOT deep enough. Trials and tribulations bring us to a place of DEEPENED FAITH.... Humans look at others with harshness at times... It becomes EASY to say... welll that one is a lost cause... or he/she is a hypocrite... when in reality.... God is NOT finished with that person YET.

I strongly believe in SECURITY of SALVATION ... because my salvation was PURCHASED at the cross.. it has NOTHING to do with what I have done or will DO.... It has EVERYTHING to do with what HE has done for us.

If our children MISBEHAVE... REBEL.... GO AGAINST us..... Does that remove them from being our children? No... it simply takes them out of fellowship. The same is with a Christian. When we sin... we separate ourselves from God... we are out of fellowship.... but not out of position.

This is touchy topic for me because I have struggled DEEPLY with the question of SECURITY as a child of God. I have family that I have walked away from because their JUDGMENTS are so HARSH. I am speaking of legalism... and it is my opinion that this is where the hypocrisy comes from. As well as those who would teach false gospels. Anyways... this is not a good topic for me... so I would ask that you allow me to bow out GRACEFULLY... lol
 
netchaplain said:
The revealing of hypocrisy is often very time consuming, taking years before it manifests itself--and it will always manifest itself (Num 32:23; 1Jo 2:19). Many keep occupied with the appearance of being Christian, eventually find out (even themselves could be unaware) that their heart has never been truly with God. The Father will not allow one to continue in error, esp. if you're not aware of it yourself.
Click to expand...

In Awe of Him said:
What I mean by my comment is NOT to justify sin... but rather to point out that at times... we sin because our faith is NOT deep enough. Trials and tribulations bring us to a place of DEEPENED FAITH.... Humans look at others with harshness at times... It becomes EASY to say... welll that one is a lost cause... or he/she is a hypocrite... when in reality.... God is NOT finished with that person YET. If our children MISBEHAVE... REBEL.... GO AGAINST us..... Does that remove them from being our children? No... it simply takes them out of fellowship. The same is with a Christian. When we sin... we separate ourselves from God... we are out of fellowship.... but not out of position.
Click to expand...

Hello netchaplain;

Well said and I appreciate the way you articulated the build up of hypocrisy.

I understand In Awe of Him's convictions that God is NOT finished with the person YET. Christians who choose God and are committed to Him are going to fall. But God's Agape Love continues to pick us up because He is not finished with His children yet.

Then there is the Believer who has gone wayward but at some point come to their senses and return to God, allowing Him to continue a good work in His child because He is not finished yet.

In these two examples I agree with In Awe of Him.

The believer who decides not to allow God to finish His work is a build up as the believer arrives at never being truly committed to God. If we reject God means blaspheming the Holy Spirit. God withdraws from persons who reject Jesus Christ. This is sin.

John 16:9, 8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; 9 about sin, because they don’t believe in me; - WEB

We must remember it's not our role to take God's place and measure one's faith, it's our commission to pray for ALL.

God bless you, brother.
 
bobinfaith said:
Christians who choose God and are committed to Him are going to fall.
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Like what you said! True about falling, but the fall only has to do with our growth, never our salvation, if we remember the fundamentals concerning the permanency of faith and salvation. Growth will depend most on how much Word one thinks on and reads and studies. It's the Word that brought us "faith" (Rom 10:17), and it's the Word that strengthens our faith! Therefore to increase faith is to increase study and application of the Word of God--all through Christ by the Spirit.

Nobody can "keep" himself saved, it will be God that keeps all who are His:

John Gill Jde 1:24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling,...."

"The people of God are liable to falling into temptation, into sin, into errors and mistakes, from an exercise of grace, or from a degree of steadfastness in Gospel truths" (a Christian can be weak, which is true esp. with immaturity as a "babe in Christ." But God brings all to maturity in Christ's image (if given time).

"They are not able to keep themselves. Adam, in his state of innocence, could not keep himself from falling; nor could the angels, many of whom fell, and the rest are preserved by the grace of God; wherefore, much less can imperfect sinful men keep themselves, they lack both skill and power to do it; nor can any, short of Christ, keep them, and it is his work and office to preserve them."
 
netchaplain said:
One can truly believe there is a God, but lack the desire to believe in Him. Romans-One teaches that one can believe about God, that He is real, and at the same time not put trust in Him. Scripture says that He has proved to all that He is real by showing them all of what may be known about Himself (Rom 1:19). This revelation of Himself first comes by the “light” of nature, by us seeing the existence of what He has created. Creation itself is enough evidence for one to believe in God!

Therefore the Word declares none are “excused” from judgement for not wanting to believe in Him (v20). There are no genuine atheists, only those who falsely claim to disbelieve in His existence! In my opinion, the primary issue is that unbelief manifests one would rather continue in wrongful pleasures, instead of trusting and having faith in God (2Ti 3:4).

One of the greatest oxymoron concepts has to be the acceptance that one can claim to believe in God, then eventually claim not to believe in Him! To genuinely have faith in God is not something one can eventually apostatize from, because faith always produces. Faith can be diminished but never deleted once obtained. Thus, salvation is a constant like faith!

One professing Christianity can eventually claim to disbelieve, and if this is truly a permanent state of mind, it only manifests there was never any belief! One cannot claim to believe then claim to disbelieve—this wouldn’t make any type of sense at all. Genuine faith cannot become unbelief, and there’s nowhere in Scripture that declares this error, only misunderstanding of the way this issue is worded.

To believe is to be permanently convinced of something; otherwise it wasn’t belief, but just something you thought you believed in. One can think they believe in God and eventually discover that they don’t truly believe in Him; but one cannot truly believe in Him and then later truly disbelieve in Him. Therefore, we either believe, or still have yet to believe (1Jo 2:19).
NC
Click to expand...

Correct me, if I am interpreting this wrong. It seems, to me, that Rom 1:19, when compared to the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 would not harmonize.

In my understanding, in attempting to harmonize the scriptures, The natural man, before he has been born of the Spirit, by the grace of God (Eph 2:1-5) receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14)
 
netchaplain said:
Hi and thanks for the reply and comments! We're not to suspect any individual as being unsaved; but it's our duty out of love to inform one another of what we think is truth.

Not sure what you mean here.

Yes, faith varies in strength, some weak and some strong. I believe the strength of faith is mostly determined by how much Word one keeps in thought, and how deep one desires to read and study it. It is the Word that brought us faith, and it's the Word that grows our faith to ever increasing maturity!

Of course for faith to increase (it never goes backward or diminishes but is always on the increase) it must always be out of love, for "Faith works by love" (Gal 5:6).

Thanks for your caring reply and comments!
Click to expand...

Do you believe that spiritual faith is a fruit of the holy Spirit (Gal 5:22) and that the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, does not have spiritual faith, and only has faith in himself, and his accomplishments?
 
Secured said:
Do you believe that spiritual faith is a fruit of the holy Spirit (Gal 5:22) and that the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, does not have spiritual faith, and only has faith in himself, and his accomplishments?
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Yes, saving "faith" is one of the fruits of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and is what God uses to save us.
 
Secured said:
Correct me, if I am interpreting this wrong. It seems, to me, that Rom 1:19, when compared to the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 would not harmonize.

In my understanding, in attempting to harmonize the scriptures, The natural man, before he has been born of the Spirit, by the grace of God (Eph 2:1-5) receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14)
Click to expand...
One can believe God is real but not trust or believe in Him. Rom 1:19-21 confirms everyone believes there is a God; but most do not trust Him!
 
NetChaplain I really like how you termed it INREACH.

I've never thought about that before.

Like many, I've only used the term outreach and followed that with a visual of helping others outside the church.

But ministering to Christians is also very important.

Its true, we need to ask God to help us in those moments of unbelief and then trust His promises.

He will never forsake us and He will continually build us up!

AMEN!


bobinfaith said:
Hello netchaplain;

Your thread Faith Is A Constant is what we call inreach to many Christians who struggle with thoughts and attitude of "flip flopping" their belief toward God and following His only Begotten Son.

Many times I find this more challenging than outreach to the lost.

The spiritual battle between principalities of darkness versus the light is very real. All Christians are faced with this fight and not all soldiers of God fight the same pace or level.

This is why it's so vital to ask God to help us in those moments of unbelief, trust God's promises that He will never forsake us, in other words, He always goes before us and continually to build us up where we lack.

Many grow uncomfortable with the doctrine of Christianity because it feels like it takes so much to follow Jesus. Their apathy toward Christ grows and eventually are blindly convinced there is no Christ when the worst of times hit us. Their resort is life on earth becomes the last stop forever and ever, so why bother carrying on? Before one knows it, apostasy sets in. Later we learn life does not end on earth and there is only one place set aside for apostasy.

I red-lighted the same important points in your thread, Bob. These are serious and in need of mentioning again and again.

A big part of our ministry is to continue our inreach to doubting Christians. Prayer and God's guidance in the Bible will point us all in the right direction.

In Mark 9 the boy who was demonized discouraged his father by giving up. Jesus helped the father build up his faith as Jesus was healing his boy.

Mark 9:24, 24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!” - NIV

In Romans 10 God knows when our hearts are troubled and overwhelming. His Word sprinkled with our prayers goes a long way in our personal growth in faith while He builds us up.

Romans 10:17, 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. - NIV

Your thread is important and should give us much to think because none of us are invincible to the spiritual battles we face. But those who continue the good fight know in the end, JESUS WINS!

God bless you, Bob and your family.
Click to expand...
 
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