Doctrine of the Turning Away

2 Timothy 4:2-5
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

There are many professing believers who do not see that they have a ministry.

Folks, those who have large SCALE ministry doesn't make them any more important than those who have few, or even just one, to whom they minister. Every soul is precious to the Lord given that His blood was shed for all who would call upon His name.

Unfortunately, those who are in the mass of professing believers who are among those who have turned away from sound doctrine, they have the ears and hearts of many otherwise mainstream leaders throughout Christendom. Dare we reprove, rebuke and exhort, we standing guard on that wall find ourselves rebuked by said leaders and personalities. We are told that we need to be more tolerant and patient with those who have turned away into fables and falsehoods that only enslave and put the followers of such under bondages that Christ came to set us free from in this life.

The turning away in these last days is manifesting in many expressions...some ancient, and some more recent. I will not belabor this thread topic by a recap of the ancient forms of the turning away from Truth, for those cults are well known to most here, if not all. What's amazing is that, as it is written there is nothing new under the sun. The same Moloch of ancient Babel is still at work today, string the pot of religious mixtures slowly toward an amalgam religion of the end of days before the return of Christ to do some serious taking care of it all when He crushes it all under His feet.

One of the most dangerous and insidious of them all is the seemingly benevolent sounding, and allegedly biblical-based upholding of obedience to the Mosaic Law as still binding upon followers of Christ today.

Now, the most common fallacy to which most defenders of this falsehood gravitate is to accuse me of throwing away all of the moral codes and standards stated in the Mosaic Law.

To that I will say...yes and no!

Yes...the Mosaic Law has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

No...God's Law is still the timeless and boundless absolute (since it originates from His very nature) upon which the Mosaic Law was built, as well as the statutes, commandments and laws that Abraham is said to have obeyed in Genesis 26.

Those laws and commandments, as well as the Mosaic Law, and, yes, the Law that is not written upon our hearts, as it is written, ALL of those constructs of Law were and are erected upon the unchanging foundation of God's Law, which is eternal. The Mosaic Law, although is the old, having been replaced by the new:

Romans 7:1-6
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

Those who wish to observe the feasts and sabbaths of the Mosaic Law, they are free to do so as they wish. We are all free to do such.

The problem arises from those who DARE to teach that we are still bound to obedience and observance of those things from which the truly redeemed have been delivered. For those who don't believe that, read those passages above again and again. Let it sink in. Look in your lexicons and Greek dictionaries if you wish.

One of the largest movements today not only spends most of their time studying Torah, and even the Tanach, but they do so at the exclusion of the New Testament, especially the epistles as a result of their discrediting Paul as a legitimate apostle. Some even believe the NT has been corrupted through the centuries since they were penned. This is the same kind of junk philosophy I always heard from the Mormon leadership when I was one of them many years ago. We were encouraged to study the Bible ONLY when in their presence and oversight so that THEY could "properly interpret it for us," which meant that it all needed to pass through the filters of their own dogmas.

Therein is the danger. Some who try to enslave others under the Mosaic Law, they are the dangerous elements to the very souls of their hearers and followers. The resulting formula from their teachings, although they will deny it till blue in the face, is this:

Christ + Mosaic Law = Salvation.

No doctrine of works-based salvation can be legitimately erected upon the foundation of the scriptures. If you find yourself fighting this battle in your own mind and heart, then talk with us. Reach out and we will talk with you about it all. Ultimately, however, you have Holy Spirit (I hope) Who can guide you:

1 John 2:26-27
26 These [things] have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Teaching is only good when it is rooted in Truth. All else is dross and chaff that will blow away in the wind.

MM
 
I'm hoping everyone caught that VERY important point...in that the Abrahamic Law, the Mosaic Law (neither of which are no longer binding upon us today), and the Law of Christ and His Law written upon our hearts, they ALL originated from the Law of God, each one having been relevant to the people groups to whom they were applied and apply from the same Lord.

So, the foundation is God's Law, and the others were derived from and built upon that foundation.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

We are in Christ, not the Mosaic Law.

MM
 
Folks, those who have large SCALE ministry doesn't make them any more important than those who have few, or even just one, to whom they minister. Every soul is precious to the Lord given that His blood was shed for all who would call upon His name.
Dear MM,
There is much to unpack and consider in your presentation. Thank you for your ministry.

However this paragraph, although perhaps not the main message of your writing, shown like a beacon to me on this day of Thanksgiving.

And so I am reminded:

Matthew 25:44-46, NASB
44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


When judgment comes will we think to say, "if I had only known it was you Jesus, I would not have been so reluctant to help, I would have found the time and the means”.

God bless you and those you love
 
Hello Musicmaster;

2 Timothy 4:2-5
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

There are many professing believers who do not see that they have a ministry.

Folks, those who have large SCALE ministry doesn't make them any more important than those who have few, or even just one, to whom they minister.
Every soul is precious to the Lord given that His blood was shed for all who would call upon His name.

Unfortunately, those who are in the mass of professing believers who are among those who have turned away from sound doctrine, they have the ears and hearts of many otherwise mainstream leaders throughout Christendom. Dare we reprove, rebuke and exhort, we standing guard on that wall find ourselves rebuked by said leaders and personalities.
We are told that we need to be more tolerant and patient with those who have turned away into fables and falsehoods that only enslave and put the followers of such under bondages that Christ came to set us free from in this life.

Teaching is only good when it is rooted in Truth.
All else is dross and chaff that will blow away in the wind.
MM

Hello Musicmaster;

"There are many professing believers who do not see that they have a ministry."

A new Pastor's wife talked about the "last church" and how they "did this and did that" along with their partnerships with other poor countries. So while she made this remark, "when my husband and I settle down in this church I don't even know what my ministry is" I was taken aback after listening to all her testimonies of ministry. I refuted her by teaching that being the pastor's wife and helpmate in raising their family (3 grown daughters) standing by him in the Word and so many other services, that in itself is a huge ministry, yet she could not see this.

I'd like to make a point for those who have a large scale ministry. May God bless those who take on huge tasks of ministry for there will be challenges in some of the most undesirable areas. I have seen God's results while His servant remain humble with humility in heart, instead of celebratory recognition. God doesn't measure the size of ministry, He measures the heart.

"Dare we reprove, rebuke and exhort, we standing guard on that wall find ourselves rebuked by said leaders and personalities. We are told that we need to be more tolerant and patient with those who have turned away into fables and falsehoods that only enslave and put the followers of such under bondages that Christ came to set us free from in this life."

Galatians 6:1-2, 1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. - ESV

God empowers us to boldly rebuke and exhort, it's Biblical throughout. God instructed Ezekiel "Son of man" to be a lookout for the Israelites, to warn them of their blind sin, and if he didn't God would hold him responsible for the results reference Ezekiel 3:18 ESV

The same goes for us servants and leaders. Those who have turned from their faith back into the myths, falsehoods and lies of the world need to be taken aside. I have addressed believers who have fallen into this trap, unknowingly or knowingly, but in love, tolerance and patience. Some by the work of God were won over and got back into the heart of worship, and some didn't and today still remain in my prayers.

"Teaching is only good when it is rooted in Truth."

MM, I cannot agree more on this statement. Speaking for myself, for many years I did all the safe stuff but when the kitchen got hot, I was neither prepared or ready because my discipleship wasn't rooted in Truth.

Today I praise God for growing me up, slowly but surely, that my roots have shoots. I've learned to see that in all circumstances, the Lord is faithful where He calls me, and no matter what or where, He led me to press on revealing His results.

God bless you, MM, your family and Happy Thanksgiving.
 
Just one thing, Bob, for clarification. When I spoke about those who have turned away into false doctrines, that's not the same thing as being caught in a transgression. I didn't mean for it to be taken that I was saying that. For better understanding, let's look again at what I quoted:

2 Timothy 4:2-5
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

The context clearly speaks of a grouping that has intentionally gravitated toward false doctrines. It's pure flesh that desires the thought that we can somehow add to or secure our salvation by our own works. The Torah-Followers who teach the requirement for obedience to the Mosaic Law by followers of Christ today, they are the type who need reproving, rebuke and exhortation because of their itching ears, and who therefore do not endure sound doctrine. They chase after whatever sounds spiritual, and that's the danger in becoming a Torah-Follower. It's a dead end because that declares to those with ears to hear that they are not of Christ, but rather believers in the idea that they can earn their way to Heaven through obedience to the Law.

Now, granted, they will flatly deny they believe such, but when we look at the conclusion to their demands upon others to obey Torah, and that not doing so is tantamount to "disobedience," that's placing all who do not strive to obey Torah into the same category of sin as idolaters, murderers, thieves, liars, et al. That's the biblical definition of "disobedience."

Thanks for pointing out the hole in my presentation so that I can seal it up with clarification.

It seemed appropriate to tackle this topic once again from a different perspective in order to drive home how dangerous this movement is, and how widespread it has become, and is still growing. They are sucking people in like nothing else I have ever seen. It's insidious and horrific. Some might call is "spiritual natural selection," but I call it sucking in unsuspecting people who need sentries on the wall to point out the approaching enemy. If I can snatch them from the fires of falsehoods, then we see clearly that our assaults against the very gates of Hell remain successful to the day we the Church are removed from this earth to the wedding supper of the Lamb, as with the five wise virgins.

Amen.

Bless you, brother.

MM
 
Just one thing, Bob, for clarification. When I spoke about those who have turned away into false doctrines, that's not the same thing as being caught in a transgression. I didn't mean for it to be taken that I was saying that. For better understanding, let's look again at what I quoted:
MM

Yes, Musicmaster;

I understand and agree with you, "not only those turning away into false doctrines." After reading your entire thread my thought came to me and I wanted to share and add to those "being caught in a transgression." These two may not be along the same angle but both can lead to a regression of sin.

May God bless you as well, brother and thank you for allowing me to share.
 
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Perfectly alright, brother. I just wanted to clarify for the sake of those reading through all this with casual and serious interest in this topic. It's likely most of you will come in contact with one or more people who are caught up in the Torah-following frenzy that's sweeping around the world like wildfire.

Right after we talked on the phone a while ago, my wife and I were amazed yet again how we had both arrived at the same conclusion about Messianics and others who believe obedience to Torah is integral to their walk with Messiah. They don't fully understand who Christ is, and the magnitude of what He accomplished on that cross. This is not a matter of disobeying the moral absolutes the Lord has established throughout all of time simply because we do not subscribe to obedience to Torah. We are obedient to the Law of God written in our hearts.

The legalists out there will try to trip you up with their belief that calling the Lord Yahshua Mashiach, Yahovah, etc., somehow makes them more spiritual and closer to Christ than those who don't. It doesn't. Trying to be what one is not doesn't elevate them in the eyes of the Lord who looks at the Heart.

Any time you encounter Torah-followers seeking to enslave you to the Law, and you wish to engage discussion with them, then feel free to contact myself or any other of the ministers on here and we can help to encourage and equip you with some great materials for standing up for the Truth as it's written in the Bible.

Many Torah-followers do not dig very deeply into the NT because of having been taught that it's less than reliable, which makes no sense given that some of the ancient texts we have for the NT dates right up to the first century, almost extant to the writers, and yet they trust the OT section of the Bible, which has nowhere near the closeness to the original writings as does the NT books. So that facet of their arguments simply doesn't hold water with all the holes in their logic and their lack of background in the historicity of the scriptures.

Blessings to you and your family, Bob, and all others who are reading this and have an interest in becoming equipped to add yet another topic of study to strengthen your apologetics skills.

MM
 
Dear MM,
There is much to unpack and consider in your presentation. Thank you for your ministry.

However this paragraph, although perhaps not the main message of your writing, shown like a beacon to me on this day of Thanksgiving.

And so I am reminded:

Matthew 25:44-46, NASB
44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

When judgment comes will we think to say, "if I had only known it was you Jesus, I would not have been so reluctant to help, I would have found the time and the means”.


God bless you and those you love
I've been under the impression that will be a Judgment of the nations, not the Church...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24)

Whereas the goats in Mt 25 have this fate...

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Mat 25:41)
 
I've been under the impression that will be a Judgment of the nations, not the Church...
Dear crossnote,

I understand that in one context this parable seemingly relates only directly to that time after Christ's return when He is ruling the nations. However, I believe that this parable, these particular teachings, as He has presented them here to the Apostles, also then apply in principle to us as individuals. Even though works do not save us He is setting a standard in this parable for our responsibilities, to Him and by inference, to His flock.

Individually and corporately, we are called to help those in need. Jesus does not say exactly how the sheep are to serve people in need, but in my mind He makes it clear that if we have any personal doubt then we are to help His flock as if we are tending directly to Him and then we are, without hypocrisy, aligning ourselves with Christ.

Also, I think He makes it clear here that individually we bear a personal responsibility that is equal to the nation’s responsibilities and there will be no passing the buck come judgment.

At least that’s how I read this parable and how I feel it was intended, but then I find there are levels with-in levels as I study the word and try to learn and understand.

God bless you and those you love.
 
Where it's true that the nations will be judged for their lack of charity to care for the needy, what is today in America called "the needy" in comparison to the needy in other nations, our poor are VERY wealthy by comparison. Our brother Bobinfaith saw some firsthand examples of the truly needy in recent weeks. Our poor, therefore, are quite well off in this country.

Given that topic, it fits well with the topic of this thread. The poor are prime targets for false doctrines, and therefore fueling the fires of the falling away in these last days.

What's tragic to observe is that the rich and the poor alike in this nation, they are falling away in alarming numbers. As I had mentioned before, the many, many branches on the tree of the "falling away" are far too numerous to list here, with the lower branches being much older than the branches higher up in that tree.

Perhaps it can be be asked as to if many who "fall away" were ever truly saved (born again) in the first place. We read about many having the knowledge of the Lord, and some having tasted of His goodness, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were born again:

Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

We see no indication he is speaking to those who were truly born again, not yet having given themselves over to that transformation, but Paul went on:

Ephesians 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

The wording gives reason to believe Paul was making a distinction between those who were born again, and those who were not yet born again.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

The key word "enlightened" is defined in this context as this:

"c. by a use only Biblical and ecclesiastical, to enlighten spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge: τινα, John 1:9; with a saving knowledge of the gospel: hence, φωτισθέντες of those who have been made Christians, Hebrews 6:4;" [Thayer's Greek Lexicon]

And:

"In the Scriptures, to fall away (from the true faith): from the worship of Jehovah, Ezekiel 14:13; Ezekiel 15:8 (for מָעַל); from Christianity, Hebrews 6:6. [Thayer's Greek Lexicon]

These passages, then, refer to those who had experienced Holy Spirit, and therefore total enlightenment of salvation, and push enlightenment and Holy Spirit away. There's nothing left for them. This is not talking about those who fall away into false doctrine, for I have done that myself, but I did not push away Holy Spirit, but rather allowed myself to believe that which was false, and was later delivered.

So, this is why I seek to help pull them from the fires of falsehoods, and restore them once again to the true faith that is defined and upheld by the Lord Himself. The concept of "falling away," therefore, in the context of this thread, and the way I have used that terminology, is a reference to those who fall away from true doctrine into falsehoods that do not push away Holy Spirit.

I know what some may be thinking, as to the ramifications of this topic in relation to the "once saved always saved" dogma. I will not go there as that is yet another of the hot topic items that are outside the scope of this thread. If anyone has questions of that nature, please send a PM or start that one in another thread, which I'm sure will be watched closely...if even allowed. Too many topics easily get out of hand when it fails to remain conversational.

MM
 
I've been under the impression that will be a Judgment of the nations, not the Church...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24)

Whereas the goats in Mt 25 have this fate...

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Mat 25:41)

You are correct!
 
I think if we agree God's law is relevant today that we might realize the law Moses received was from God.

The 10 commands define love of God and one another. Then and now.
 
I think if we agree God's law is relevant today that we might realize the law Moses received was from God.

The 10 commands define love of God and one another. Then and now.

Very true. However, the Mosaic Law, as stated, was built upon, and derived from, the foundation of the Law of God, which existed eternally before the Mosaic Law was ever etched into stone and penned by the hand of Moses. Does that make sense?

It is NOW the Law of God that the Spirit of the Lord Himself wrote upon our hearts, which is all derived from the Law of God.

MM
 
Very true. However, the Mosaic Law, as stated, was built upon, and derived from, the foundation of the Law of God, which existed eternally before the Mosaic Law was ever etched into stone and penned by the hand of Moses. Does that make sense?

It is NOW the Law of God that the Spirit of the Lord Himself wrote upon our hearts, which is all derived from the Law of God.

MM
I thought that's what I said too in my own way.😉
 
I thought that's what I said too in my own way.😉

I didn't pick that up in what you said. The Ten Commandments are fulfilled, as is all the rest of the Mosaic Law. Not destroyed, but fulfilled. That's the one distinction the Torah-ism people misrepresent about our beliefs.

Thanks for the clarification.

MM
 
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