Do not touch The Lord's Anointed

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by JohnC, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. Seeing events unfold over the last year has got me thinking about this..... I always cringe when I see a very public "Mutiny" in a prominent church where the goal is to scandalize and destroy the God fearing leadership.... To me - it's particularly disgusting when disgruntled members pour it out into the secular Media - which is always happy to lend a helping hand to destroy Christians who are doing the work of God....

    We see David speaking out against trying to destroy Saul - "I will not lay my hand upon The Lord's anointed".... This is a very important principle... Truly leading is a VERY messy process... Decisions must be made - and not everyone is going to agree.... As we see over and over and over - God's way for the church is NOT based upon unanimous decision of the laity or even leadership....

    I think Moses makes a great example of this... If the TORAH was written by The People instead of Moses - we would have received a completely different picture... Moses would have been cast as some sort of monster... Look at the replies of those involved with Korah's Rebellion - "What, will you pick out our eyes and kill us?" ... Look at Aaron and Miriam standing against Moses and bringing accusation against him... Look at the multiple times that the people were rebelling against Moses and even were ready to stone him.....

    David is also a great example of this... If it wasn't for God stating that David is a man after God's own heart - we would have cast David as an utter failure... Immoral, Adulterer, Murderer, war monger, embroiled in scandal both within his own family and with his enemies, embroiled in revolt, brought plagues and destruction against himself, the House of David, AND the whole nation of Israel... And yet - David wrote the majority of the Psalms and wrote perhaps more prophecy pertaining to The Messiah than any other single man.... David WAS a Godly Man - and it is declared that David had a heart after The Lord's.... We read about David with a critical eye and wonder how in the world God decided to bring The Messiah through him....

    Contrast David against Saul and Soloman.... Neither Soloman, nor Saul were plagued by scandal... Neither of them were harassed and attacked by their own family... Neither of them brought major destruction upon Israel... Through Secular eyes - both Soloman and Saul would be regarded as FAR better kings... and yet - in God's eyes - both were failures....

    We need to keep this in mind when we look at Church leadership - especially when they are working to "Right the ship" and straighten out big problems.... Leadership is messy... There's disagreement and revolt ESPECIALLY when you are intent upon following God - and this doesn't mean you are doing it wrong... Godly leaders may well experience far greater resistance and revolt than ungodly ones.... Don't be part of this revolt against Godly men...

    Thanks
     
    Grant Melville, KingJ and Euphemia says Amen and like this.
  2. [​IMG]
     
    Grant Melville likes this.
  3. B2 Peter 2:1-3..............
    "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them . . . many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;and in their greed they will exploit you with false words . . . having eyes full of adultery and that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed . . . "

    I agree with you .............almost. Sometimes it is easier to say things like this than it is to live through them. Allow me to give you some examples of church messes I have personally been involved in as a mediator.

    The pastor is caught lying, time and time again. Should the church confront confront him?
    The pastor beats his wife and puts her in the hospital not once but time and time again. Should the church confront him?
    The pastor has an affair with the church secretary. Should the church confront him?
    The pastor preaches several sermons where he says that Jesus is NOT the Christ. Should the church confront him?
    The pastor raped a 5 year old girl 10 years ago. Should the church confront him.
    The pastor changed his sexual orientation to being a homosexual. Should the church confront him?
    The pastor served 4 years in jail for child abuse and did not tell the church when hired. Should the church confront him?

    Now in these situations lets NOT assume that he has confessed and repented but that the facts have just become known to the church. What do you think should be done????

    It seems to me that leadership MUST SET the Godly example and not merely say what he would do but is he LIVING what he says.

    Now if you say he needs to be confronted, and he was and does not admit (Assuming you have all the correct facts) and repent............Now what do you recommend that the church does???

    Does the church say "Do not touch God's anointed" and walk away leaving the situation as it was?
     
    KingJ, autumn oddity and Silk says Amen and like this.
  4. I don't like people of God being unfairly treated and their actions twisted in spin by the media. We know about David's stumbles because it was aired for all to see. People who use God's name for their own benefit while misleading should be exposed. As Christians we stand for truth....we do not cover for lies & sins from misleaders. The harm they do is immense and fatal. This last year I have seen loathsome turns by our American leaders - and I will not defend them either. If you are going around professing to be "Godly" while sinning to beat the band, as a Christian - be sure the Devil will put you on the front page.
     
    autumn oddity likes this.
  5. And you should look on this as an opportunity to repent and correct yourself and get right with God, if you find yourself in such a position - because the time is short and the penalty is eternal. If the accusations are truly false - God will protect and right it.
     
    autumn oddity, KingJ, Euphemia and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  6. well said Silk!!!
     
  7. We better be careful... This is how we got to where we are in the church today... Churches filled with uninspired and unanointed leaders who will get run out of the church unless they look good and stay out of trouble in public...... They don't teach the bible or truly build leaders because that gets people all riled up and looking for action...

    Can you imagine our response to Paul, Peter or James....
    In and out of jail all the time....
    Multiple prison breaks - on the run from the law...
    Arrested and tried for revolt and insurgency....
    Stir up violent angry mobs wherever they go....
    Multiple violent assasination attempts against them....
    Finally turned over to be put to death by their own out of jealousy.....

    How about Jesus?
    Fighting all the time with vested, bona-fide church leaders
    Gets into shouting matches with these same folks.... they are calling him a bastard illegitimate and he is calling them spawn of Satan....
    Multiple runs of physical violence inside the church buildings....
    Calling down curses upon the existing leadership....
    Killed by his own people out of anger, greed, and jealousy...

    How about basically all of the Prophets?
    Declaring curse and bad things upon people - especially political leadership....
    In and out of jail all the time...
    Hunted down by the government....
    Killed by their own people out of anger, hate, and jealousy....

    How about the Judges?

    If these guys walked the earth today - we wouldn't listen to a word they said.....
    We need to think about that...
     
  8. We have the benefit of hindsight on ancient times and still, instead of being guided by the rightly divided Word and our own homework, we are to hallow men/women who profess to be bona fide and Godly but speak and act in contradiction to that Word? We aren't speaking to how the world views the person or ourselves but how we compare to what is given us by God. Sorry - apples and oranges. Can you give me an example of what you are talking about? If I am acting correctly under the cover of Jesus, my only duty is to continue to act in this manner, no matter what the world throws my way. Even slain by the world, I am ultimately protected. If I am walking in error, despite my outward and best intentions, isn't it best for me to be shown my error here? Given a chance to repent while I am still here? Again...I need a current day example.
     
    Major likes this.
  9. The only problem I have is that..not all spiritual leaders are right in what they do...its almost like an okay for them to mistreat the sheep... You can't touch the anointed... But you can kick and abuse the sheep...and that's okay? :|
     
    Major and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  10. Amen!!! However I don't believe just anybody can just confron t a spiritual leader...I think god will put it in the heart of someone who's fit , to talk to them about their situation.

     
  11. I agree with this but NT scripture is clear that we need qualified elders overseeing a church. 1 Tim 3- 7 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

    David qualified to lead until he entered mortal sins. We see this as his leadership plunged Israel into civil war.

    There is an elder in my church who committed a grievous sin and was removed from leadership. Five years later he is back in leadership and God is using him powerfully once more. That is how it is meant to be. We don't follow David when he is not hearing from God. We respect him as someone who tried his best for God. Heart after God's = Hating what is evil, clinging to what is good and being concerned with God's feelings to the best of our ability.
     
    autumn oddity and Major say Amen and like this.
  12. I agree. That is the reason the Bible said to go one on one when a brother is found in a fault. If he listens and repents, wonderful. If not take a witness and if that fails he is to be turned over to the assembly.
     
  13. #13 JohnC, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
    It's pretty interesting how so many here answer "Yes.... but" to this question... Yes - I know we are made perfect by The Spirit of God ... BUT......

    Should the "Godly man" be rebuked for his sin (his ERROR)? Absolutely!

    I think his response is one of the things that sets The Godly Man apart from the Ungodly... The Godly man receives the rebuke and goes to God for help - begging God for HIS true repentance... The Ungodly either denies it - or tries to "resolve" it through his own fortitude, intellect, and willpower - only giving lip service to God and ultimately failing.... Think of Psalm 51... "Create in me a clean heart O God and renew a right spirit within me"... David is putting the emphasis upon God to fix the things which are wrong with him.... He understands that without God restoring him - his own self-willed moral effort will not accomplish anything worthwhile....

    I think the hardest thing for those on the "Outside" is that God brings HIS true repentance on HIS time - not on our schedule... We want to see an action plan, a timeline, and a firm date for resolution... and that's not how God does what He does... God may let the fellow wallow in his sin for 25 years before HE grants that fellow true repentance - nothing I do is going to speed this up.... My impatience isn't going to make it go faster.... During that time - God may well NOT revoke His anointing or His calling - and the fellow accomplishes MARVELOUS things that further the kingdom, even while fighting this deeply entrenched sin.... We have all seen it.... Some of us have experienced it.... That's Grace - Literally "Unmerited favor"..... By all accounts - this man should be struck down, but he is not because God grants him this huge measure of "Unmerited favor" to accomplish things....

    WE (You and I) are far from perfect.. How much more so the people who have been gifted by God to accomplish mighty things - the Bible shows this pretty clearly... Honestly, it feels like God does this on purpose to make a point to us... A point that we ought to be very careful to understand.... His power is not contingent upon our own perfection - but yet that outward perfection is what we want to demand out of our leaders....

    There is GOING to be trouble whenever you are focused on God's primary agenda for today... Attacks, temptations, and errors are going to happen... This is why it's so critical to see the "Fruit" of the tree - the Good fruit: growing of love, peace, joy, perseverance, endurance, growth, building up of the laity, shepherding of the flock into growth and maturity... vs the Bad fruit: Division, hate, anger, frustration, spite, jealousy, endless debates, hindering growth and breeding endless immaturity, etc....

    Think of Paul's admonition in Galatians.... (Gal 3:1-3)
    "O Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth...... Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?"

    We ought to be real careful when we put "The works of the law" and "Perfection by the flesh" of our leadership ahead of The Spirit of God and Bearing Good Fruit...

    Thanks
     
    Major likes this.
  14. Godly man begging God for his repentence.............your joking right ? Begging God.....?
    Brother God does not desire nor want us begging for repentence or forgivness but He does want us acting like we know what He has said in His word.

    Brother I have no clue where youo get this but God is not about to allow some one to suffer in or waddle in sin before He allows repentence.

    If a man anointed to preach waddles in sin God will not pour out the anointing when he goes to preach. The man will preach in his own strength. Sin brother stops the anointing just like sin stops the flow of faith bringing in the desired results.

    Blessings
     
  15. It's a shame you have never experienced true grace - when you could tangibly SEE God working and His Anointing flowing even though your own state of being did not merit such an outpouring or working by His hand...

    I have experienced such.... At first, it is exhilarating... But - Once you realize what's going on - it's terrifying... because you KNOW that there's no way this is happening because of you..... You say - God, how can you work like this when I am struggling so much with this sin..... but God does - and that's Grace.

    Even more terrifying when you start thinking "Gosh, God is working and all these people respect me.... What happens when they find out...." What happens when the only answer you receive for years is "My grace is sufficient for you"....

    The testimony you are left with is that God is strong and I am not... God is faithful when I am not... God's grace and mercy cover me. It's not by my strength or my power or my righteousness or by my word - but rather completely by the Hand of God... 2nd Corinthians 12:9 "And He said to me 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore, I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me"

    As for God allowing people to wallow... Look at the evidence... Look at the Bible... God delivers at HIS time and on His schedule - not on ours.... Why does he do this? I don't know, but I have plenty of evidence that He does.

    Thanks
     
  16. I have been meditating on how big God is and God has been helping me to have a tiny insight into it. He showed me not only that I am so small that I can fit onto the palm of His hand comfortably but the whole universe can. I of course couldn't see our planet never alone see me in His palm. And He is a lot bigger than His palm. Not only God is so big it is all love.
     
    Fish Catcher Jim and autumn oddity say Amen and like this.
  17. John let me ask you this - where is the difference at ?
    Go into any Christian forum and speak the truth about Gods word.........
    It is the very same.......sadly but true
     
  18. Bethany I had a very similar experience many, many moons ago. ( lol )
    Here is the point I want to drive home here.
    Begin to see you in His palm and curled up in His lap. Get this deep within your core being (spirit)...........it will change your life from now on.
    God Bless and thank you for the reminder
    jim
     
  19. You are right my life is changing so much in such a short time. I started to think the Devil is only a speck in comparison to God. And would you believe it? I felt the devil's presence and he was so angry with me for saying that, because he was found out for what he was.
     
  20. Good testimony John. One of the sure signs of a believer is his humility. God bless you my brother and may He keep you in the palm of His hand.
     

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