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Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Dan 6:1 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom a hundred and twenty satraps, who should be throughout the whole kingdom;
    Dan 6:2 and over them three presidents, of whom Daniel was one; that these satraps might give account unto them, and that the king should have no damage.
    Dan 6:3 Then this Daniel was distinguished above the presidents and the satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him; and the king thought to set him over the whole realm.(ASV)

    It has, quickly, become customary to do what is necessary to get by and this attitude has steamed it's way into the Christian Church today. Today, as in the past, folks that work harder than they are required to to get by are despised and disliked. Daniel is a very good example of what a follower of the LORD should look like at work.

    We must learn that there is not only one message, the message of Salvation, but there are also many life applications for the guidance of our passage here during our passage. Although many will debate God's concern for our moment to moment concerns, desires and actions, the Bible proves He cares.

    Dan 6:4 Then the presidents and the satraps sought to find occasion against Daniel as touching the kingdom; but they could find no occasion nor fault, forasmuch as he was faithful, neither was there any error or fault found in him.

    Is there a Christian alive today of whom no fault can be found? Are there any trying?

    Dan 6:5 Then said these men, We shall not find any occasion against this Daniel, except we find it against him concerning the law of his God.
    Dan 6:6 Then these presidents and satraps assembled together to the king, and said thus unto him, King Darius, live for ever.
    Dan 6:7 All the presidents of the kingdom, the deputies and the satraps, the counsellors and the governors, have consulted together to establish a royal statute, and to make a strong interdict, that whosoever shall ask a petition of any god or man for thirty days, save of thee, O king, he shall be cast into the den of lions.
    Dan 6:8 Now, O king, establish the interdict, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.
    Dan 6:9 Wherefore king Darius signed the writing and the interdict.

    Daniel was such a person that when investigated no fault could be found in him and therefore it was required that a special circumstance be created to trap him. These men knew of Daniel's faith because he lived it, faithfully, can the same be said of ourselves? Do people see Christ when they see you?

    Dan 6:10 And when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house (now his windows were open in his chamber toward Jerusalem) and he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

    Daniel knew the law had been signed and he would have, certainly, known the penalty was a night in the Lion's Den and yet he did not turn from his commitment to God. Daniel understood that loving, sometimes called fearing God, involved more than lip service.

    Dan 6:11 Then these men assembled together, and found Daniel making petition and supplication before his God.
    Dan 6:12 Then they came near, and spake before the king concerning the king's interdict: Hast thou not signed an interdict, that every man that shall make petition unto any god or man within thirty days, save unto thee, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions? The king answered and said, The thing is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.
    Dan 6:13 Then answered they and said before the king, That Daniel, who is of the children of the captivity of Judah, regardeth not thee, O king, nor the interdict that thou hast signed, but maketh his petition three times a day.

    With the trap set the Satraps spring it. The one thing I have, absolutely, found to be true is that if you will devote your heart to God, Satan will attack you and this is an excellent example of, just, that. Most lost people will tell you that they serve nobody but themselves and they, truly believe this because they have never examined their spiritual self.

    Dan 6:14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him; and he labored till the going down of the sun to rescue him.

    The king has found Daniel to be a true and a faithful servant and it is my conclusion that he, likely, realized that he and Daniel had been led into a trap that would require more power than he could muster, on his own.

    Dan 6:15 Then these men assembled together unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians, that no interdict nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.
    Dan 6:16 Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and cast him into the den of lions. Now the king spake and said unto Daniel, Thy God whom thou servest continually, he will deliver thee.

    Did the king believe these words he spoke? I believe this lesson, recorded for our use, in the future, was also meant to be a testimony to king Darius. From the text I cannot conclude any less than that the king wanted to believe that his words were true. Darius is a great illustration of the majority of the world today. He had sen a follower of God, had observed and found him true but had not made the commitment himself.

    Dan 6:17 And a stone was brought, and laid upon the mouth of the den; and the king sealed it with his own signet, and with the signet of his lords; that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel.
    Dan 6:18 Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting; neither were instruments of music brought before him: and his sleep fled from him.

    Daniel is placed into the den of hungry Lions and the door has the king's seal is administered and followed by the impressions of the Satraps that had accused him. While I'm sure the accusers spent the night, believing themselves victorious, King Darius, on the other hand was very troubled and I have to believe that he made intersession to God for Daniel's safety. And here, again, we find a life spplication lesson for the Christian and the Jewish believer.

    Dan 6:19 Then the king arose very early in the morning, and went in haste unto the den of lions.
    Dan 6:20 And when he came near unto the den to Daniel, he cried with a lamentable voice; the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?

    Please note the worry and uncertainty in the king's remarks as he approaches the Lion's den. It seems, from the context of this chapter that he wants to believe but like most people in this world, he has seen the charlatans fall, time after time. He wants Daniel to be alive but he is unsure.

    Dan 6:21 Then said Daniel unto the king, O king, live for ever.
    Dan 6:22 My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, and they have not hurt me; forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.

    Much, I'm sure, to the kings delight and surprise, Daniel, with respect to the king's position, responds in the positive and delights the king. Contained here is a wonderful life lesson. If we are faithful in our pursuit of God, God will provide for us, even in the most troubling of times and circumstances.

    Dan 6:23 Then was the king exceeding glad, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no manner of hurt was found upon him, because he had trusted in his God.
    Dan 6:24 And the king commanded, and they brought those men that had accused Daniel, and they cast them into the den of lions, them, their children, and their wives; and the lions had the mastery of them, and brake all their bones in pieces, before they came to the bottom of the den.

    It saddens me that we should even need this application lesson for teaching us life's lessons but the evidence shows us that we do. When we are faithful God provides for our needs, just as He did for Daniel but when we choose to follow the deceiver, we will be punished and our descendants will suffer also. Some will shout, unfair, but the truth of the matter is that as we live we teach. And what we teach our children... it matters.

    Dan 6:25 Then king Darius wrote unto all the peoples, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth: Peace be multiplied unto you.
    Dan 6:26 I make a decree, that in all the dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel; for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, And his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed; and his dominion shall be even unto the end.
    Dan 6:27 He delivereth and rescueth, and he worketh signs and wonders in heaven and in earth, who hath delivered Daniel from the power of the lions.
    Dan 6:28 So this Daniel prospered in the reign of Darius, and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

    So, was King Darius converted? I believe we will see him, those of us that believe, in Heaven. Darius appears to have read the testimony God provided for him and he believed. I wish that many of us, today, could understand what we see and process it truthfully.
  2. Bill.......do you place any significance to the "angel" who came to minister to Daniel?
  3. I hesitate to go beyond the text and call it a Christophany as a good number of popular televangelists have done. An Angle is a messenger from God and there are very few people that are alive or that have ever been alive that are privileged with such a visit. The only living person I know to have been given that revelation is my granddaughter and she was only five at the time. She was the only person, unscathed, in the 60 mph collision and as soon as she was extracted she said good-bye to an otherwise unseen person and tried to explain that there was no reason to be concerned about her because the Angle had taken care of her and, to this day, she has suffered no physical damage and no mental damage.

    On the basis of the scripture, I do give a great deal of weight to the fact that an angle answered his prayers. I also teach that there is a great life application in the fact that his prayers were answered in that manor. (a hint) We all need to learn that sort of faithfulness, sacrifice and devotion... there is a reward.
  4. Christophanies are generally identifiable as such, or at least have some "proof" that the Angel is more than the text implies. As far as I can see here, there is nothing in the text that implies that the Angel is anything but an Angel as there was no interaction.
    th1bill likes this.
  5. I tend to go there also. There seem to be a rather limited number on this forum that seek to "interpret" the text but that is not so on some I have been a member of in the past. I understand and agree that God has called and has led men through His Holy Spirit, the third person of the Holy Trinity, to interpret the scriptures into different languages but the interpretation stops there and understanding through the indwelling of the Spirit begins.

    Good morning and may God bless my friend.
  6. I for one do believe that the angel in Daniel 6 was Christ. I also believe that it is a repitition of the miracle God performed in the firey furnance in delivering Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. Just as the 3 in the furnance, Daniel was delievered without any manner of hurt.

    My whole life I have tried to look beyound what is in front of me to see if and then what is the spiritual lesson to be learned n things that take place all around me.

    Just like Bills granddaughter, I too have seen things that were unexplanable but showed me that there was something else going on besides what was right in front of my eyes. Thus the example in Daniel 6.

    Now then, the Book of Daniel has 12 chapters and is divided into 2 parts with the division line being chapter 7. Up to chapter 7 the text had to do with Daniel's personal history as God's prophet during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Belshazzar, Darius and Cyrus. Daniel was an old man when Darius became king of Babylon along with Cyrus in the duel kingdom of Media-Persia.

    As chapter 7 begins it now includes the account of a series of visions that God gave to Daniel. They are all prophetic and are about the comprehensive picture of the history of man from the time of Daniel to the KIngdom of Heaven.
    Chapter 7 records the first in these visions. It is my understanding that while Jesus was in the lion's den, He and Daniel discussed these things that were to come to pass. From Chapter 7 to the end of the book is all about future prophesy.

    There is in the lion's den the picture of the preservation of Israel through the lion's den of the Tribulation Period under the rule of the Anti-christ.

    It is also a beautiful picture of the Lord Jesus who was placed in the tomb of Josheph of Arimathaea. As in Daniel's case, a stone was rolled against the entrance of the tomb and sealed with the kings ring.

    After Daniel has served his sentance of death, he was removed without harm and he could not be executed in any other way. The same is true of Jesus. He suffered once, for all, forever; He paid sin's debt in full and there can not be another repitition of His sacrifice. He suffered, died, buried but was delivered from the tomb.

    John 8:32
    "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (32) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed".

    Daniel in the lion' den, delivered by God's miracle, foreshadows Jesus in the tomb of Joseph. THe same God of God's, Lord of kings, the revealer of secrets, delivered Daniel from those lions and delivered Jesus from the death that sin demanded!
  7. I'm willing to entertain the idea, though I don't see anything in the text to support it myself, but I do believe that there is often truth buried a bit deeper than the literal words might suggest.

    However, I can't really follow your logic after the first paragraph. It's all a bit disjointed. Could you perhaps clear it up a bit?
  8. Like Barbarenh, I agree with everything you have said except the first paragraph. And while, what you have presented here has nothing to with heresy it can e the beginning of a leaning in that direction and is a good reason for me to not go there. As nearly as I can see, the text does not spell out this conclusion and I have found, in the past, that folks tend to develop bad habits to quickly,

    Time after time I have battled with people in my classes over super-imposing anything into the recorded Word of God. Right at this time, a friend and I have split over this very thing, his idea, because he has chosen to believe a man that is selling prayer cloths for $100 a piece. This one also sells, through the mail, meals that heal. This, self proclaimed healer has super-imposed his thoughts over the recorded text of The Revelation of Jesus Christ and is getting rich selling DVDs to the masses.

    That's the reason I seek to follow what the text says and not be seen going beyond it.
  9. I don't "agree" or "disagree" with any of his post. I just want clarification because it seems to be several ideas with nothing to hold them together. I feel like I"m missing the most important part because I don't see how one idea leads to the others and I was hoping Major could provide a bit more light to his idea.
  10. Well..........I guess that is what happens when one misses a nap after taking his medication.

    Let me see what I can do to explain.

    1st paragraph was simply my opinion of who the "angel" was. It may very well be just an angel and Bill is correct.
    I should have stated that more clearly.

    By way of explaining that, when one reads Daniel, it is after the angels visit to the lions den that Daniel begins to give the prophecies concerning the rest of the age. An angel could have given that information to Daniel but IMO it was the pre-incarnant Christ who would do this. From Chapter 7 to the end of the book is all about future prophesy.
    Then over the years of study and trying to understand the Plan of God, it occured to me that the event of the lions den there was a picture of how God will look after Israel during the time of future Tribulation. The antichrist will try to destroy the nation of Israel just as the people who hated Daniel thought the lions would do to him. But God delivered Daniel and God will deliver Israel.

    Now some my call this "revelation" and some may reject it altogether but.....Just as Daniel was placed into what was condsidered to be a "tomb of death".........God turned it into a resurrection unto life!!!!
    Daniel was considered to be dead and therefore could not and would not be executed in anyother way.

    Isn't that exactly what happened to Jesus???? He was placed in the tomb of Josheph of Arimathaea. As in Daniel's case, a stone was rolled against the entrance of the tomb and sealed with the kings ring.
    Jesus, as did Daniel, rose from death (lions den) unto to life. He suffered once, for all, forever; He paid sin's debt in full and there can not be another repitition of His sacrifice. He suffered, died, buried but was delivered from the tomb to life.

    Daniel in the lion' den, delivered by God's miracle, foreshadows Jesus in the tomb of Joseph.

    I hope that helps my thinking to be better understood.
  11. I don't see anything wrong with that line of thinking, though I wouldn't elevate it beyond an interpretation personally, it seems to be as valid as most interpretations I've heard for the most part. However, I don't see why the Angel would have to be a Christophany either. Sure, there is the potential for that, but I don't see any proof that the Angel is anything but an Angel. The main reason this is important to me is because we cannot and should not worship Angels, but we can and should worship Christ. To elevate an Angel to the level of Christ for the sake of creating a nice illustration seems a bit dangerous to me.

    For the purposes of your illustration, Danial serves more as the reflection of Christ. The Angel was not the one buried, but simply the one that prevented Daniel's immediate death by closing the lion's mouths. Just because we have a correlation, doesn't require causality. Daniel in the lions' den, delivered by God's miracle, still foreshadows Jesus in the tomb of Joseph no matter who the Angel was, but it an Angel, Arch-Angel, or the Captain of the Lord's Army.
  12. You are coming awfully close to being regarded as a Southern or a Missionary Baptist. I, like you, see Daniel as a foreshadowing of the Christ on the cross.

  13. That is absolutely the first time anyone has accused me of being close to being Baptist. I once turned down the opportunity to be ordained in a Baptist church because I don't agree with some of the wheelhouse doctrines, but I can generally work well with them so long as I am not forced to preach them as commonly presented.
  14. I do not even consider it an interpretation at all Ban.

    It is just something that came to my mind over years of study and not something I demand or expect to be accepted.

    There is no effort on my part to elavate an angel to the leval of Christ as that would be heresy.
  15. Yes........as do I and that was what I was trying to put forward but it seems that I failed to do what you just did Bill! Thanks!
  16. Ever feel like you are having a completely different conversation than everyone else is? I don't have any problem with the foreshadowing aspects here, I was just trying to see how it relates to the Angel being a Christophany. Perhaps that is why your posts felt so disjointed to me because judging from your first paragraph, I took the rest of your post to be supporting that idea. Apparently, that isn't what you were intending?
  17. YES!

    That is what I intened but failed evidently.

    I do not see how believeing Daniel is a foreshadowding of Christ removes the possiblity of the angel being the pre -incarnant Christ. Daniel is a type of Christ or picture, a godly man of the Bible who IMO shows the coming Messiah. He is called blameless. In the lions' den miracle, Daniel's trial resembles that of Jesus before Pilate, IMO, and his escape from certain death is like the resurrection of Jesus.

    That was my only intention.
  18. It doesn't remove the possibility, but it also doesn't confirm it. The two seem to be unrelated subjects. I thought you were trying to connect them and I wasn't understanding the connection. There are many examples of Christophanies as well as many examples of foreshadowing, but the two rarely have any connection to each other.
  19. If all of this does nothing more it will make a very instructive read for the young, as well as, for Babay Christians. We can hope to do no better than that one thing.
    Major likes this.
  20. Agreed! That is why I said .........
    "My whole life I have tried to look beyound what is in front of me to see if and then what is the spiritual lesson to be learned in things that take place all around me."(Comment #6).

    It was and is just something I came to understand, not something I would be dogmatic about.

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