Curiosity About The Bible's Supposed Divinity

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by WingedVictory, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. The Bible is a collection of stories that early Christians and Jews debated about being included into the cannon. Some denominations have 66 books in theirs, some have 73. In any case, all evidence tells us that the process for deciding what stories got allowed in the Bible was decided by men who were considered leaders at those times. This is common knowledge, but please research for yourself if you'd like.

    In light of these facts, how do/why should people come to believe this book to be inerrant and of divine origin when the process of putting the stories together was clearly an act of man?
     
  2. Well, I would say that the 'stories' are a witness/ testimony to who Jesus Christ is throughout our known history. The Bible as we recognize it today is a collection of those historical records.

    Is the Bible missing data? I don't know-frankly I am at the point in my walk where I find that it doesn't really matter if it is or isn't because the core of who God is and what He desires is retained in what we have; "it is enough" for us to know Him.

    The eternal Salvation of mankind is the common thread woven from beginning to end in the Bible. This is what God desires-that we ALL come to Him- so we are delivered from the separation from Him in the next life-when we truly begin to live and experience true freedom from our fleshy bondage.

    The real question is; do you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you? Without that-the Bible is foolishness to the unbeliever...

    The Bible is the record-the Spirit is the life and our direct connection to God, through the Comforter (Holy Spirit) and shed blood of Jesus Christ.

    The Bible-as wonderful as it is; is lacking without the Spirit. And yet; God's inspired Word given too and through mankind has billions of witnesses of the Holy Spirit throughout history-and yet many are still blind and deaf to the wonder, mystery and power of God's Word.
     
  3. What makes you trust in the infallible reliability of these stories? What methods were used to insure that the story of Ruth, for example, is totally true?

    Based on the definitions of Holy Spirit that I've heard, I would say no. I simply don't believe it exists. How would you say that one goes about getting this Holy Spirit?
     
  4. #4 aha, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
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  5. Faith-because I accepted the gift that Jesus Christ gave me-and I believe it to be true. We all- believers and unbelievers- have faith in something. Some believe that their country, laws, governments, money, things, employers, have their best interests in mind. I choose to believe that God has my best interests in mind-not anything of this world. I was once an unbeliever-until I invited the Holy Spirit to move in by accepting by faith-that Jesus Christ the Son of God died to pay for my sins on the cross at Calvary so that I may enter into eternal life with Him. I did not grow up in a Christian home, I went to secular colleges and learned from kindergarten through post secondary education all about evolution and the world system.

    I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior at 30 years of age.

    You were designed missing a piece of your soul on purpose by God-this can only be filled by the Holy Spirit making you inherently dependent on God from your conception. The witness of the Holy Spirit and God are all around you if you are willing to see them. We often refer to these as 'blessings' in the Christian realm:

    Everyone; believers and unbelievers alike enjoy these blessings from God:
    Life
    The Earth-plants, animals, mountains, rivers etc...
    Light
    A soul
    Freedom/ Free will
    The Sun/ Cosmos
    (Reproduction!/ The ability to Procreate)

    Believers are blessed with eternal rewards with the number one thing being Salvation from a separation from God in eternity. This is just the beginning of His blessings on His children and it is available to ALL that will accept Him. Even you. The other 'treasures' will be revealed when we get to the next life-and even some in this life.

    The Holy Spirit is Gods essence in us and manifested through us in all things that are 'good'. Even for the unbeliever-they can 'feel' /sense the Holy Spirit working in them when they have joy in creation and life: EXAMPLE: holding a new born child....

    All things 'Good' are of God.
     
    th1bill likes this.
  6. So, I'm basically getting that faith in your interpretation of what the Bible says about the Holy Spirit is required in order to get the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is required to understand the Bible. Sounds like a huge circular argument to me. It begs the question of why anyone should believe the stories of the Bible in the first place. But I appreciate you explaining.

    I fear you may be slightly equivocating. Let's distinguish the concept of "faith" from the concept of having a working knowledge of how things work. For example, I don't need to have faith that the sun will come up. I am reasonably certain that it will because of experience. This isn't the same as religious faith, in which there is often no good reasons for belief beyond a "feeling" or desire for the religion to be true.
     
  7. Not at all-the Holy Spirit is available to you - right now - if you will allow Him into your heart. This a spiritual issue; nothing you can rationalize humanly. In fact; having faith in God can be quite seemingly 'irrational' to the unbeliever. There are no special chants, tricks, etc... to gain said 'Spirit' other than Faith in God-belief in what He has dome for you. You don't necessarily have to have the Bible to have Faith.

    The Holy Spirit is the key to the Bible. Without it you will never unlock the true depths that are contained in the mystery of the Word of God. Oh sure you can read the text in the Bible-and even comprehend some of the Bible-but you will not as an unbeliever get the same thing out of it as I do.

    The Gospel (Good News) is for all: God wants you to go to Heaven-He paid for your ticket so you are allowed to go to Heaven. Will you accept this gift? You don't have too...that's your choice...

    I fear you misunderstand me as far as an 'unbeliever's faith.' You do have Faith in things-you believe that you will get some outcome or reward if you follow certain steps. EXAMPLE: You believe / have faith that you will go to work and at the appropriate time of the end of your pay period your employer will give you a paycheck-else-why would you go to work? You wouldn't! What happens if your employer isn't able to pay you after 2 or 3 pay periods? My guess is your 'faith' in your employer's ability to pay you would dwindle.
     
  8. Friend, I have enjoyed our conversation; I am looking forward to continuing it. I must leave for the night and prepare for tomorrow. May the LORD of all watch and keep you and bless you with wisdom and love.
     
    WingedVictory likes this.
  9. I'm assuming you mean that having a Bible based belief in what your god has done for you is required in order to get the Holy Spirit, correct? If so, then you do need the Bible (not necessarily the physical book in front of you) in order to have a Bible based belief. And according to you, a Bible based belief of what your god has done is needed in order to get the Holy Spirit, and you need the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible. So, it's a circular argument, which begs the question of why we should believe what the Bible says this god has done for us. That is where your faith comes in though, since that question doesn't seem to be answerable by any demonstrable means.

    Experience based knowledge of steps to take in order to get a reward isn't faith. Faith is the belief in something despite lacking a demonstrable reason for this belief. What you're doing is equivocating. I see the similarities though, and I used to make the same mistake because I wanted to believe it was all the same and could all just be called "faith". Now, I would say that our adherence to claims can fall on a spectrum between complete faith and complete knowledge. The more demonstrable evidence one has for a belief, the more towards knowledge it becomes to them. However, the distinctions between the concepts are important.

    The example you gave of the employer isn't heavy in faith. It is more experience based knowledge. If my employer wasn't able to pay me, I would have to admit I was wrong about him. I would have to alter my knowledge. That's different from faith. Belief that an intelligent being creating the universe is more faith. No demonstrable reasons to believe it to my knowledge.
     
  10. Take note of the red font, precisely why you are falling into the circular….
     
  11. #11 aha, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
    A is a pre-requisite of B, B is a pre-requisite of C, C is a pre-requisite of A….
    That is circular….
     
  12. I want to remind posters that if you have not agreed with our Statement of Faith, you should only use this forum for learning purposes otherwise, we will issue a warning / ban your account. This is a Christian forum and one of our purposes is to glorify God and His word. Please take a moment to review our community rules. Thank you.
     
  13. How does one receive the Holy Spirit you ask, and you also may ask how one knows he or she has the Holy Spirit.


    Let me give you my understanding of how one receives the Holy Spirit, and how one knows he or she has the Holy Spirit.


    Normally one needs to repent of his or her sins then accept Jesus as his or her lord and savior. Then get baptized in Jesus name to be ready for the Holy Spirit to come upon him or her.


    (Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”


    If one does not receive the Holy Spirit when he or she are baptized then one may need to have an apostle of God’s lay hands upon him or her.


    How does one know if he or she have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is also very simple to see and understand. First gifts of the Holy Spirit will be manifested. Also the Holy Spirit will begin to teach him or her about God, and his Word. One will actually be in communication with God.


    (1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”


    Jesus personally told me that bible was his written Word. God has personally used the bible to teach me. Yet one who has the Holy Spirit does not ever need to read the bible to come to know God.


    In fact the only way one can come to know God is to have God teach him or her.


    Reading the bible without God’s teaching will only let someone know of God.
     
  14. Every single person who has accepted the grace offered by Jesus Christ and has been baptized has the Holy Spirit residing within him or her. That being said, how well the person responds to the prompting of the Holy Spirit varies widely.
    You have some (very few) who are "filled" with the Spirit, and then the vast majority that you'd hardly know they were Christian.
    I like to use this analogy, having the Spirit is like adding salt to a swimming pool.
    For a Saint, the water is so salty you can walk across the pool.
    For most, the water still appears fresh.
    Too many are willing to toss one grain of salt in the pool and then call it sea water.
     
  15. I deleted my earlier post, as I think I came strong…

    I wonder why….. I realized it was the one in red font….

    One can see how people think: with preconceived ideas: when they add a bit of a phrase or a sentence….

    As if people do not have a basis of what they believe in….

    That I think is a sign of close minded.
     
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  17. For those who want to believe one always receives the Holy Spirit when baptized in the name of Jesus.

    (Acts 8:14-17) “When theapostlesinJerusalemheard thatSamariahad accepted the word of God, they sent Peter andJohnto them,and they went down there and prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit,for as yet he had not come down on any of them: they had only been baptised in the name of theLord Jesus.Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.”
     
  18. Is anyone here not using the forum for learning?
     
  19. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, whether you're saying that I'm using a circular argument or not. Can you clarify please?
     
  20. I've noticed two different beliefs; belief that everyone who is baptized gets the HS and the belief that not everyone who is baptized gets the HS. You believe the latter. Why do you think people come to believe the opposite?
     

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