How much authority or influence should one have over the other?
How do you balance between the two?
Can one do without the other?
How do you balance between the two?
Can one do without the other?
Thanks, so would you say the Church should abide by these guidelines or each to their conscience?...The (C)hurch, on the other hand, is beautiful and wonderfully fragrant; outside the control of any earthly government. Man's authority simply doesn't over-shadow the Head. The (C)hurch is not built upon the foundation of money. She lives without the necessity for money for her survival. She lives and breaths the nourishing and life-sustaining atmosphere supplied by only the Lord. He alone exercises authority over her through whatever means He so chooses. Governments don't command her, nor do governments dictate morality to her. The Lord is the sole Source for all that flows into her.
Thanks, so would you say the Church should abide by these guidelines or each to their conscience?...
Isaiah 1:17 (NASB) Learn to do good; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow.
(In the arena of euthanasia)...
Proverbs 31:8 (KJV) Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction.
Proverbs 24:11-12 (KJV) If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?
Should the Church comply with Covid restrictions or should they gather for worship regardless in accordance with ...
Hebrews 10:25 (KJV) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
How much authority or influence should one have over the other?
How do you balance between the two?
Can one do without the other?
Thanks, what happens when something like the Covid restrictions took place for 'health' reasons."WE" people have allowed the government to influence the church. That was never intended to be the case by the founders.
The church was to be free from the government but the government was to be the one influenced by the church.
Our country and government was founded upon the Word of God and Christian values.
Thanks, what happens when something like the Covid restrictions took place for 'health' reasons.
Some held to ...
Acts 5:29 (NASB) But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.
Hebrews 10:25 (NASB) not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Others held to...
Romans 13:1-2 (NASB) Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
Where's the balance, if there is one?
Thanks, what happens when something like the Covid restrictions took place for 'health' reasons.
Some held to ...
Acts 5:29 (NASB) But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.
Hebrews 10:25 (NASB) not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Others held to...
Romans 13:1-2 (NASB) Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
Where's the balance, if there is one?
When governing authorities traipse off into the realm of the absurd and despotism, we continue our ministry among others who will listen, regardless of restrictions and demands from political, talking heads who covet power so much that they will perpetrate lies to get it.
It's inevitable that the inactive and ineffective professors of Christ will pull out from scripture whatever is convenient to defend their ineffectiveness and lethargic indifference to their responsibility to become a functional member of the body of Christ.
MM
I sort of meant balance in our own personal decisions concerning that tension between the two.Balance????
I am not one who believes that is going to happen.
Luke 17:26-27.......
“As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all”.
The SBC has now elected a liberal as President of the convention.
Yes, but he's not the first liberal they ever had, right? Wasn't the one or two before this one liberal? After Richard Land, somewhere along the way, they got the first liberal guy in there they had ever had, but I can't remember his name. Liberals have been pushing to get into the key places all across the country. That's how the Boy Scouts went down. Infiltration. They are the type of people who will lie, wear lambs clothing if necessary, to get themselves into the positions of influence.
But, hey, it's not really them who are the problem here. I'm preaching to the choir. Those flesh and blood liberals would NEVER gain what they have achieved thus far had it not been the powers and principalities behind them that orchestrate the "liberal" successes we're witnessing all around us. Something is going on behind the scenes our eyes cannot behold.
Additionally, and I'm not saying you or anyone else here is guilty of this, but I have grown so weary of people beating up the (C)hurch over all this, blaming the (C)hurch, the body of Christ, beating us all up since we're easy targets, for our alleged ineffectiveness against the increasing evils in this world. We pray to the Lord to hold it all back, and to empower us to fight it, but the Lord allows it all to happen, not giving to us the power to overcome. Why?
Well, the bullies who try to beat us up in the (C)hurch are blind, cold and naked. They lack in vision and understanding, of the ways of the Lord, and that His will is playing out before our eyes. He's allowing the evil forces to rise up in power and influence, and in all that, evil ends up punishing its own. Do y'all get that? It affects us to an extent, but we're still camped out under the expansive shadows under the Wings of the Lord, with a thousand falling at our left hand, and ten thousand at our right. We have the armor. The wicked don't.
When the bullies point their fingers at the institutional system of (c)hurches, yes. They fail left and right since they live and breath from the strength of the arms of men and women who uphold and operate them. The liberals enter into them all the time, and overcome most of them. The liberals can't enter, and therefore they utterly incapable of infiltrating the (C)hurch. Isn't that wonderful!?
So, I leave the blame-game against the (C)hurch to the idiots who have no spiritual insight to see that the (C)hurch has always been in prayer to her Lord, seeking His deliverance and His powerful and mighty Hand stretched out to defeat the enemies of righteousness, and at various times throughout history, the Lord has been backing off, giving more free reign to the wicked of late. Given what we know about prophecy, it's likely to bring about the end of this world, so the prophecies must come to fulfillment by the degrees of the Lord's own choosing, not ours. I pray the Lord's blessing upon the (C)hurch and His chosen people Israel. They day is coming when two-thirds of the Jews will be wiped out, but the Lord will sustain a remnant against their enemies in the last days. There is such great hope in prophecy concerning the (C)hurch.
Let us continue in supplications, thanks and praise of the Lord for His mighty protections of us against the evil that He is allowing to continue gaining ground. When we assault wickedness without His direction, then we're doing so under our own strength. We can't win by the strength of our arms. He is Lord, and we should function under His leadership as His actually being Lord over us. Those who pooh-pooh prophecy, just remember that more than 1/4th of the entire Bible speaks of the end times, where all things will culminate, pointing to Christ Jesus and His mercies.
Amen
MM
Neither should have authority over the other because they are non-overlapping magisterium. The state belongs to the realm of the worldly political systems, which are controlled by the devil. The Church belongs to the kingdom of God and is controlled by God.How much authority or influence should one have over the other?
How do you balance between the two?
Can one do without the other?
Neither should have authority over the other because they are non-overlapping magisterium. The state belongs to the realm of the worldly political systems, which are controlled by the devil. The Church belongs to the kingdom of God and is controlled by God.
The government might force human beings to forfeit property, but it cannot force the forfeiture of faith. Psalm 2 comes to mind as the world makes its attacks. These fools make for amusement.Cinch up your combat boot straps and get ready if you plan to defend the religious, magisterium, institutional system, because its days are numbered...those that refuse to bow their knee to the government mandated inclusiveness of sexual and gender perversions. The government sees itself as the rightful authority over even church organizations, and there is no stopping it from doing as it pleases now that the younger generation has mostly been corrupted with liberalistic/Marxist thinking. There ain't nothing gonna stop it apart from God Himself intervening. So get ready to walk away from your communal buildings and plush lawns, leaving them to be auctioned off by the local sheriffs to the highest bidder. Many have already been made into mosques, and that trend will likely not slow down in the observable decline of civilization.
MM
The government might force human beings to forfeit property, but it cannot force the forfeiture of faith. Psalm 2 comes to mind as the world makes its attacks. These fools make for amusement.
Ideally, the Church/State should work in harmony as spirit and body. But in a fallen world, I guess 'ideally' is a pipe dream.Neither should have authority over the other because they are non-overlapping magisterium. The state belongs to the realm of the worldly political systems, which are controlled by the devil. The Church belongs to the kingdom of God and is controlled by God.
Ideally, the Church/State should work in harmony as spirit and body. But in a fallen world, I guess 'ideally' is a pipe dream.
Still, we have the Scripture setting up a sort of tension between the two with Rom 13:1-2 and Acts 5:29.