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Cause And Effect

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Abdicate, May 1, 2014.

  1. Premiss:
    Genesis 12:3 (KJV)
    And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    1. So, in the news, read about governmental actions against Israel's government.
    2. Look for natural events that occur within 48 hours of those statements
    That's it. I've laid out some of what I found. I have gigabyte of articles showing cause and effect with the EU, UK, Australia, Spain and the U.S. and I know there are more, but I don't have the means to read other languages.

    Here are some examples:

    Moore, OK:

    • Sunday May 19, 2013 Kerry to arrive in Israel to push for negotiations (LINK) "... arrive this Tuesday..."
    • Sunday May 19, 2013 Gay Pride march in OKC (LINK) On their FB page they had a photo "Rain never hurt anyone!!! Bring it on!!!" Mocking God. (In OKC 11 miles north of Moore, OK)
    • Tuesday May 21, 2013 Moore OK Oklahoma tornado tears massive path of death, destruction (LINK) Destruction greater than Hiroshima (LINK)
    • 8 Aug 2005: U.S. pressures Israel to pull out of Gaza
    • 15 Aug 2005: Israel begins to pull out of Gaza forcing settlers out
    • 23 Aug 2005: Hurricane Katrina forms
    • 24 Aug 2005: Israeli pullout completes Gaza withdrawal
    • 24 Aug 2005: U.S. pressures Israel to resume roadmap plan
    • 26 Aug 2005: Sharon faces the battle of his political life against Netanyahu
    • 26 Aug 2005: Oil hits a record high at $68/barrel
    • 29 Aug 2005: Katrina hits New Orleans – 28 levees fail (over 50 in the ensuing days)
    • 4 Jan 2006: Ariel Sharon has massive stroke leaving him in a permanent vegetative state and died having never woke up
    Gulf Oil Well Explosion:

    • 30 Mar 2010: Netanyahu snubbed at the White House while Obama goes to dinner
    • 10 Apr 2010: Israel will not attend the Obama Nuclear Arms Summit in fears the US will force Israel
    • 19 Apr 2010: Obama and Israel: Showdown at the UN (U.S. will not rubber-stamp a veto on non-Israeli friendly votes)
    • 20 Apr 2010: Israel warns of a nuclear race in the Middle East is Iran is allowed to have the bomb
    • 21 Apr 2010: US will not attack Iran on nuclear issue, leaves Israel to make a unilateral decision, which without US support will fail
    • 21 Apr 2010: US to allow a nuclear Iran
    • 21 Apr 2010: Oil Rig explodes off coast of Louisiana, 11 killed
    • 29 Apr 2010: Obama warns Israel and PA to do nothing to stop peace process
    • 29 Apr 2010: Gulf Oil slick: Businesses Brace for the worse
    • 29 Apr 2010: Oil Slick makes landfall
    Bridgeport, CN Tornado:

    • 21 Jun 2010: US angry with the continued building in East Jerusalem
    • 22 Jun 2010: Israel's feeling of isolation is becoming more pronounced
    • 24 Jun 2010: Obama calls Gaza situation ‘unsustainable’
    • 24 Jun 2010: A 100-yard-wide tornado with winds of at least 100 mph rips through Bridgeport, Conn's largest city, causing massive damage
    Outbreak of Tornadoes in U.S. History (at that time):
    • 4-5 April 2011: Massive wind damage
    • 9 April 2011: Iowa supercells!
    • 10 April 2011: "Northwoods" tornadoes
    • 12 April 2011: U.S. plans new push on Arab-Israeli peace: Clinton
    • 12 April 2011: Obama to recognise Palestinian state with '67 borders
    • 12 April 2011: Top White House aide delivers personal Obama letter to Saudi king
    • 13 April 2011: Obama Bans Weapons Sales To Israel, Sells Billions In Arms To Arab States
    • 14 April 2011: Day 1 of three-day siege
    • 15 April 2011: Dixie Alley nightmare
    • 16 April 2011: Carolinas, Virginia crushed
    • 19-20 April 2011: Midwest, South outbreak
    • 22 April 2011: St. Louis tornado
    • 25 April 2011: Arkansas ambush
    • 26 April 2011: Deja Vu
    • 27 April 2011: Southeast Devastation
    • 18 April 2011: Storms launched 241 twisters over 14 states, killing at least 44 people from Oklahoma to North Carolina.
    UN Flooded - Hurricane Sandy:
    • 22 October 2012 Hurricane Sandy formed
    • 24, 25 October 2012: Sixty-seventh General Assembly, Third Committee, 24th & 25th Meetings
    • 25 October 2012: UN expert calls for boycott of all Israeli occupied territory goods
    • 27 October 2012: Sandy re-intensified into a hurricane and makes sudden "left" turn
    • 29 October 2012: Reaching its second peak strength Hurricane Sady (Second-costliest hurricane in US history) hits NYC/NJ
    • 31 October 2012: U.N. Security Council relocates due to storm damage
    • 1 November 2012: UN management chief says UN headquarters suffered 'unprecedented damage' from Superstorm Sandy
    Australia "Biblical" Flooding:
    • 14 Dec 2010: Prime Minister Kevin Rudd of Australia (born in Nambour, Queesnland) in Jerusalem urging Israel to open all its nuclear facilities to UN inspectors
    • 15 Dec 2010: Australia backs Palestinian refugees and Palestinian state
    • 2 Jan 2011: Australia flooding of 'biblical proportions' slashes coal, agriculture exports - The flooding in northeastern Queensland covers an area the size of France and Germany combined, with at least 22 towns cut off or flooded. Authorities are saying that more than 200,000 people are affected, according to the Associated Press.
    • 17 Jan 2011: Floods 'Worst Disaster In Australian History'-- Kevin Rudd's hometown of West End,
      a suburb of Brisbane, was flooded
    • 3 Feb 2011: Australia Cyclone Yasi roars into Queensland (storm is the size of 3/4 the United States)
    Hurricane Bonnie:
    • 23 July 2010: U.S. upgrades diplomatic ties with Palestinians in bid to woo Abbas
    • 24 July 2010: Effects were more severe from the remnants of Bonnie, with heavier rain amounts and higher winds reported near the Gulf Coast, especially in Louisiana. Damage as a result of the storm and its remnants totaled $1.5 million
    • 17 July 2011: Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas (L) and Norwegian Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere attend a news conference in Oslo
    • 22 July 2011: Norway FM Jonas Gahr Stoere Called for Palestinian State At Youth Camp
    • 23 July 2011: 91 Killed in Norway Island Massacre at Youth Camp, and a Capital Blast
    Texas Tornado:
    • 3 Apr 2012: Obama Blaming Israel for Rising Fuel Prices
    • 3 Apr 2012: Texas suffers more than 800 homes and businesses damaged in tornado swarm
    Chile 6.3 Earthquake:
    • 6 March 2011, 11:48 AM: President Piñera tells Netanyahu 'Palestinians have the right for a free and democratic state. You mustn't miss the opportunity for peace.'
    • 6 March 2011, 2:59 PM: Magnitude 6.3 quake hits northern Chile
    Japan Tsunami (Pattern of buildup of wrath to the day!):
    • 11 Mar 2010: To the U.N.: Japan deplores the decisions of Israel to build 1600 homes in E. Jerusalem
    • 11 Jan 2011: To the U.N.: Japan strongly condemns the demolishing of the Shepherd’s Hotel in E. Jerusalem to build homes for the Jewish people
    • 8 Feb 2011: Japan welcomes the series of economic measures to support the PA and the Gaza strip
    • 10 Feb 2011: Japan is concerned about the municipal of Jerusalem's planning committee in permitting more housing units in E. Jerusalem
    • 11 Mar 2011: Widespread destruction from Japan earthquake, tsunamis
    • 7 Apr 2011: Pressure Iran, Netanyahu tells Merkel but she emphasises a two-state solution
    • 8 Apr 2011: Freak sandstorm causes deadly accident in north-eastern Germany killing 8, injuring 60
    • 4 Jan 2014: Palestinian red lines make chances of US-mediated settlement slim
    • 5 Jan 2014: Kerry gains Arab backing for framework peace plan
    • 5 Jan 2014: Hospital says Ariel Sharon fighting for his life
    • 6 Jan 2014: Kerry leaves region after 5-day visit empty handed
    • 6 Jan 2014: JetBlue suspends operations
    • 7 Jan 2014: -15 recorded at O'Hare at 7 a.m. breaks existing low set on this date in 1894 and 1988
    • 11 Jan 2014: Ariel Sharon dead (8 years 1 week after going into a coma - 2929 days)
    • 27 Apr 2014: Kerry Warns Israel Could Become ‘An Apartheid State’
    • 27 Apr - 1 May 2014: Tornados every night since 27 Apr with massive flooding

    So, from now on, when a disaster occurs, look to see what the authorities did to Israel!
    Cosmicwaffle likes this.
  2. God bless Israel!

  3. God said that to Abraham, not Israel
  4. Ah, Abraham is the father of the Jews and Arabs...
  5. Yes, he is. I don't see your point though.
  6. And the father of our faith!
  7. So then let me ask the question, do you see the pattern? If so, why would there be one if what God spoke to Abraham didn't also apply to Israel today? There's another pattern concerning 9 av.
  8. Galatians 3 is a pretty interesting passage that may add to this discussion. I'll only post a few verses. It is a pretty dense and difficult, so check out the whole chapter(s) for a better sense of context:

    16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”i meaning one person, who is Christ.
    28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    Silk likes this.
  9. So the pattern is false? How can you explain the facts?
  10. Well,
    - There are always other countries interacting with Israel in ways that could be interpreted as negative interactions
    - There are always disasters happening everywhere
    So it's tough to prove a "pattern."
  11. I don't know because I only speak English, so I can't speak to Hebrew, Greek, or Latin but seed in English can mean my father's seed got 4 children - it doesn't mean just my older brother. I'm sure I will get corrected but didn't it say that Abraham seed would be like the stars in heaven? Christ was Abraham seed , stemming from the patriarchs, and He was the ultimate result, but He is not the only seed of Abraham.
    Just my 2 cents.
  12. Silk,

    I think the point in the Galatians passage is that all who are in Christ share in the promises to Abraham (specifically, which is the aim of this teaching, an inheritance which was promised before the law, therefore access to it cannot depend on justification through the law):
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek
    29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
  13. (double post)
  14. Hence the reason for the thread... for you to see for yourself. It's undeniable IMHO.

    So with your doubting minds, have you ever thought about what is the trigger that makes the Lord return? There is one, and it's not "evil abounds". Does anyone know? I have a verse, but I want to know if anyone has it yet.
  15. Well just so there's no confusion, basically, the pattern you're suggesting is, whenever a politician says or does something besides unilaterally supporting Israel, eventually, a natural disaster is going to happen somewhere in that politician's country?

    How is that different from saying, every time I kill a spider, eventually, it rains? The spider/rain statement is true; what cannot be proven is the connection between the events. We should be skeptical.
  16. That's why it's called a pattern. I don't expect you to believe me but to use the mind God gave you based on the premiss I started with. It can be proved if you bothered to pay attention. How is it different? It's a promise from God.
  17. What does Galatians 3 say about that promise?
  18. Believe it, don't believe it, I really don't care. You're trying to compare apples to oranges.
  19. I see it and believe it and I could tell you stories of how the Lord worked in my personal life in the same way, one of the most poignant ones is a man agreed on a price with me for my labor and then reneged, I was obviously upset about it, but felt Father was telling me to let it go, didn't think much about it until I heard he had contacted a deadly and fast spreading type of cancer and died, I immediately fell on my knees and asked forgiveness for not praying more for him and to take away any bitterness I still held in my heart, Gen 12:3 passed through my mind and I was at peace, shocked at the reality of it, but at peace, ...warning, don't touch the apple of His eye, whether it's non-believing Israel today or one of His born again kids, ...God is still on the throne!


  20. I think we can see a pattern in just about anything if we look hard enough. However, I don't believe that's the issue. I believe the issue is on what basis do we take a statement made to Abraham and apply it to all of Israel. After the Jews rejected Christ God scattered them and destroyed their city. They are still in exile. Modern Israel doesn't follow God so why would God bless those who bless Israel?

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