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Blasphemy Of The Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Sweet Pea, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. #1 Sweet Pea, Jan 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
    What exactly is this? I have never quite understood that. I got a little concerned in my other thread because we were discussing if NDE's are real. Then we discussed that some are not and some might be... like the woman who wrote a book about it, and the other NDE's that I read... I know we have to be discerning to find out if something is of God, but could that be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Would God understand I was just trying to be discerning?
     
  2. Jesus mentioned this once when they called the Holy an unclean spirit to cast out clean spirit. So they attributed the Holy Spirit as being Evil and Jesus warned them and said the Kingdoms where not divided.

    Since we only have Jesus mentioning this once (Recorded in a couple of accounts Matt and Mark) we don't take a passage of scripture and make it of any private interpretation.

    Jesus statement was..... Can Satan cast out Satan?

    Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

    The Word Blaspheme means to take a stance against, to vilify, to rail against.
    To take a stance against, one must have it set in their mind to be against. In this case they accused the Power of God of being evil by being a devil to cast out devils.

    In Marks account Jesus said they are in danger of eternal damnation, this gives a sense that they did accuse the Holy Spirit of being evil, but Jesus was giving them a strong warning here. Without light on something God does not judge you or without the law sin is not imputed.

    If this were the case were just accusing the Power of God as being evil, many believers would not make it today. The Power of God gets blamed from many evil acts. Taking a child home early, having someone die of cancer, and the list goes on that believers accuse God being part in.

    Jesus said the Kingdom are not divided..... Satan is the thief, the murderer and stealer. Not the Power of God, (Holy Spirit)

    Hence Jesus warning to them.........

    Hebrews:

    For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
    (Heb 6:4-6)

    In this case, anyone that has actually known the Holy Spirit and decided the Holy Spirit and heavenly gift were not to be valued, and walk away not wanting anything more to do with the Holy Spirit would not come back. If anyone has made this choice they would not even be interested in coming back.

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    The sin is mentioned..............

    Heb 10:29
    Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    We are sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit, if someone where to leave and not want that anymore then they do so despite the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Only believers could commit this sin against the Spirit of Grace as the World is judged already who do not know Jesus, as Jesus said they are condemned already.

    If you actually with forethought committed this sin, you would not even be posting here as it would not be a concern to you. It says it's impossible for anyone to bring you back and you would not care on your own. Because without the Holy Spirit, there would be no more conviction.

    Blessings.
     
    KingJ likes this.
  3. Thank you for your response. I appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me. I understand the second part of your explanation, but I am confused about the part that Jesus talked about... where the Pharisees said the bad stuff about Jesus. If someone thought a near-death experience was a trick of the devil, but it turned out to be God... wouldn't that similar to what the Pharisees said?
     
  4. Amen...to stand opposed to God (even in unbelief) calling the things of God "evil" or worse, to say they are of the devil, is blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. I say a close second is to say the things of the devil are God's doing is equally dangerous. Therefore call your good good and your evil evil. I would like to also say that I believe if one is worried that they have committed this sin then more than likely they have not (God never despises a repentant or contrite heart towards Him).
     
  5. NO, talking about the near death experience or just talking about junk that may be bad about the Holy Spirit is not what Jesus was talking about.

    Read what Brother Paul said.

    Jesus was talking to the Pharisees............ A group of leaders that claimed to know the truth by did not recognize the are accept the working of the Spirit of Grace and the Power of God setting people free.

    They claimed to know the truth, they claimed not to be in the dark. Hence Jesus warning.

    Read what Jesus told them another time and hence why they were in danger of Hell fire because you can't teach someone that claims to already know.

    Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
    Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

    They said we see and understand what we are doing, and we are deciding with full knowledge because we understand to take a position against you.

    They said they see and claim to understand what they were refusing.

    For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
    (Heb 6:4-6)

    This is someone that knew what they were giving up and did not vaule the Holy Spirit or the things of God. They did so fully knowing exactly who they were taking a position against.

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Both cases they knew they were going against the Spirit of Grace with full knowledge and have tasted the gift of God but rejected after.

    So, the sin would be to take an active stance Against the Holy Spirit, the gift of God, the one that sealed you unto the day of redemption after you have come to the full knowledge of the truth. It's through the Spirit of God we are sealed.


    That is not taking an active stance against the Holy Spirit, not trashing the blood covenant. The pharisee's who saw the active power of the Holy Spirit, but with knowledge said you could not be your the Messiah, but your using demonic power to cast out devils. They took a hard stance against the Son of God despite the Power of God operating in his life. They even waited out at church to see if He would heal on the Sabbath so they could bust him out for Healing. By knowing the power was real, but saying it was a devil was taking a stance against the Holy Spirit.

    If what you described Was Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit................. Then every Pastor that preached God took so and so, or God used that sickness to teach us something would also be on their way to hell. They attribute the power of God to doing evil work and we were told it was the devil the does these things of Killing, Stealing and destroying.

    However they do it out of ignorance and they are not by their heart taking a stance against the Holy Spirit.

    As Paul said, anyone that has really committed this sin, would not even care anymore as they would go into darkness and not be drawn to repentance.
     
  6. Why am I having such a hard time with this? Normally, things are clear to me especially after I get an explanation. I just keep thinking about how they accused Jesus having an unclean spirit. That seems so similar to wondering if this woman and others who have had near-death experiences really saw the devil instead of God and are being tricked. I feel so ashamed.
     
  7. Sister, if calling the Work of the devil the Holy Spirit or power of God was a immortal sin, then a whole lot of believers would not make it.

    Anytime someone blamed God for taking a child, or causing sickness (or allowing by permission) to build character then they would be condemned. Saying Evil is done by the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit is Evil.

    People believe that God gave the Devil permission to murder a mans children, I can prove our loving God did no such thing. (Job)

    Now unless your taking up a position against the Holy Spirit, Have decided that you want nothing to do with the Spirit of Grace, have full knowledge of what your doing then I would say you might be in trouble.

    Your not doing what the Pharisee's did, they claimed to know and by saying Jesus was really using devil power they did so to deny the power of God on the earth. If they admitted that Jesus was using the Holy Spirit, then they would also have to admit he was the Messiah. They were not going to do that, so they said Jesus was using devil power.

    Anytime you run into sin or issues, keep this in mind for all things. If it bugs you then "Who" is bugging you?

    If God is dealing with you on anything.................. I mean any circumstance then memorize this scripture and compare.

    Jas_3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, (Accept) full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.


    Are you at peace about this? Does it seem gentle to you? Is it full of mercy or do you feel bad?

    Even if you had sex with 10 guys, got drunk, robbed a bank all in one night, your Father in Heaven would never break that scripture and it's given to us so that we know "Who" is dealing with us. He would correct you with Wisdom, peace and be gentle.

    It's the devil that confuses things, says there more to this than what you know. He says you just don't understand how bad this is. the devil will leave doubts as to what really went wrong, will tell you about consequences that could happen (Normally a list that you can choose from and side with the devil on)

    The devil leaves you unsettled, condemned.

    The sin Jesus talked about can't be forgiven, that means you gave up all and would not even be concerned. Your understanding of anything related to God would go dark.

    You have done no wrong, and If I heard the Holy Spirit say that you even need reminded or corrected on some thinking I would have heard it, and there is nothing there. Your fine.

    It's going to be OK..........

    The devil torments persistently............ The Father corrects with but a Word in peace.

    Blessings.
     
  8. Thank you so much, Michael. That made me feel much better. I really was trying to do the right thing by not believing everything I read out there. I do not want to be tricked into believing things that are not of God. I do not know the woman who wrote the book and I do not know the people that had the other NDE's that I read about. I do not know if they are telling the truth. If they are telling the truth, I do not know of they were being deceived. The woman in the book says she is a Christian and I believe her. I would say she probably did see God, but I am not 100% because I was not there. I tend to believe her story more than some of the others because she didn't say that all religions lead to God. She said we need salvation. Last night, I went back and reread what she said about sin not mattering. She said her sin did not matter to God, BUT earlier in the book she said she asked God to forgive her. Anyway, all that to say this woman maybe really did have the NDE and it could have been real. I just want to make sure I don't believe everything I hear. I believe there are many false teachings out there and I am trying to guard myself. I really should just stick with the Bible.

    On a different note, when we do hear things like NDE, how do we discern if they are from God? How do we test the spirit and guard ourselves from false teachings and prophets without saying something bad if the teaching really is from God?
     
  9. I keep these rules:

    Everything must be backed by scripture and more than one place. The Holy Spirit compares spiritual with spiritual for us so we need more than one passage saying something before making a doctrine out of it. There can be no contradicting scriptures either otherwise we need to seek God and find out how they all fit.

    Every experience that can't be backed by scripture becomes a matter of "Interest" I don't discount the experience, but I don't teach others on it or make it some doctrine.

    There are several books about people that went to Heaven and got to visit for a bit. I think that is great, but what they saw and what they experienced would be according to the foundation they had when they visited. In other Words they may have been to Heaven, but did not have the full understanding. God works with us according to the Light He has given us.

    Mary K Baxter Wrote a book about a visit to Hell with Jesus. I read it several times and can only say that there is nothing not unscriptural (I could find) about it so it "COULD BE" I don't tell others about hell based on the book though. It's a matter of interest.

    If you keep this level headed, scripture only, common sense approach to these things and trust the Holy Spirit to steer you from the "REAL" bad stuff you will be fine. You don't have to discredit anyone's experience and you don't have to make a doctrine out of it.

    Your blessed :)
     
  10. Thanks, again, Michael. I appreciate your patience on this topic! :)

    That is how I feel about this woman's testimony... that it could be true... I just don't know. I've read several books about life-after-death experiences and never been this concerned about it. I just read them, thought that is great if these are accurate and moved on. This time, I thought about it more and decided to look up others... I don't know why I reacted so strongly this time. I guess when I read the one about the man who said the bright white being kept changing his appearance and all the other stuff... it made me doubt the other stories... kinda like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
     
  11. Well, Accurate would be defined by the honesty of the person telling about their experience. It is very hard to believe that anyone who has died for the first time would know what to look for and understand what they were describing having never been there. So even if the person is being 100% honest, the accuracy would be very questionable.

    A brain surgeon who is describing a brain they are looking at compared to me describing it would be very different. Both may be honest, but one would be more accurate.

    Tongues is the same way, we see it in scripture but the operation of it is not defined as it's a spiritual operation for each person. I hear a whole lot from believers that pray in tongues tell of the Spirit shifting and their tongues change into a different language than normal. They then say when this happens the Lord speaks to them directly about something.

    I have ZERO scripture to back that up with, but it's happened to me also many, many times. A person I know wrote about it here just the other day describing it.

    http://www.forum.mikecarolhelmickministries.org/index.php/topic,89.0.html

    I don't tell anyone that is how tongues can operate, though I believe it does. Even with some truth to that or not, We are to stick with scripture only. Also there is so much more to understand about these things that the accuracy of how it works would be in question though many describe the same thing.

    So it could be all accounts you have examined are honest, but with the accuracy only understood by the person describing it. We are talking things of the spirit realm here, so though the laws are close to natural laws they are different.

    I believe you will be able to put this in a clear perspective so that it troubles you no more.
     
  12. Do you think that people really do have near-death experiences?

    I feel so bad wondering what if it was the devil when it could have been God she saw. She said she is a Christian. I definitely went too far when I read other accounts from people of other religions.

    As far as tongues, I was also wondering if someone could blaspheme the Holy Spirit that way, too, but I guess I just don't understand what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is. You hear that sometimes when people speak in tongues, it's really a demonic spirit, so we are supposed to test these spirits to see. So, if a person wondered what if the spirit is the devil, but it actually turned out to be the Holy Spirit... well, didn't they technically blaspheme since they were technically wondering that about what was actually God?

    I'm going to read the link you provided now... thank you!
     
  13. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
    (Luk 11:11-13)

    It can't be a demonic spirit because Jesus covered this already knowing ahead of time that believers will believe goofy things. If you seek the gift of tongues then you don't get a counterfeit or something harmful to you. If you did then Jesus lied here and the Father is not as good as a father than evil fathers.

    Who do you suppose would lie to the unlearned to get them to be afraid of a awesome gift by the Holy Spirit? How wants to stop us from all that God has for us?

    1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

    The Holy Spirit is our "Helper" He don't speak the tongues for us, he gives the words. Paul wrote this as some claim they had no option to speak in tongues because the Holy Spirit sort of made them. Some use that excuse today to interrupt service during church and it's the Holy Spirit's Fault.

    The Holy Spirit never forces anyone to do anything, but is our helper, teacher and comforter. So to get the Holy Spirits help to speak in tongues, it would not be possible for it to be the devil instead.

    A person would have to be fully possessed to speak in demonic tongues since spiritual tongues come from our human spirit. So the person would have to be in very bad shape. I also doubt the Devil has any type of tongues and they can impart no gift.

    If we seek, we find......... If we seek tongues which most all the believers spoke in Paul's time (Hence his many instructions for keeping it in order) then we won't catch a devil, or it be fake.

    Blessings.
     
  14. I guess I have a lot to learn! I read on a Christian website that sometimes people really have a demonic spirit... I was wondering about that... how confusing that is to Christians if some people speaking in tongues were wrong and it was bad. It didn't make sense to me. So, you are saying that it is impossible for someone who is speaking in tongues to not be filled with the Holy Spirit? Let me see if I can find the website I was reading.
     
  15. #16 ixoye_8, Jan 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
    satan has always made counterfeits to deceive ..
    even he can appear as an angel to deceive ..
    therefore tongues can be of the HS or of satan ..
    Paul says that IF someone speaks in tongues, another is suppose to translate it ..
    meaning the gift is USELESS (non-edifying) if the HS also does not supply a person with the gift of translating ..

    1Cr 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

    1Cr 12:30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

    1Cr 14:5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

    1Cr 14:22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
    1Cr 14:26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
     
  16. Thank you for sharing those. The first one does not even believe in tongues, that would mostly be your Baptist group.

    There is no scripture the says devils can give a person tongues or that someone seeking the Lord would get something false.

    189 matches for the term seek the Lord.

    Psa_34:10
    The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing.
    Psa_40:16
    Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.
    Psa_69:6 Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord GOD of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel.

    None of them end bad or with a devil. If someone seeks God, then the devil is not going to barge in and mess things up. Remember, the devil is just a disobedient angel that did not have enough wisdom to obey God. We certainly don't need to be concerned about anyone who does not know better than to serve God.

    1Co_12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

    Paul would have given instruction here to be aware of demonic tongues. There is no such warning and would have been.

    Is the Website Blasphemy?
    Well, reading though I would say the person has lots more to learn. There is no such thing as demonic tongues unless it be possible that a fully possessed person be speaking them. All fully possessed people I have encountered are normally just out of their mind, not speaking in some demonic tongue.

    Can a person speak gibberish and claim it to be the Holy Spirit or Demonic? Of course they can.
    Can a person by a devil speak another language. I suppose that may be possible as devils would know all the languages.
    I would need scripture though and there are no scriptures to support this.

    My wife had the same issue you bring up. At 16 she was sort of forced to speak in tongues. Later someone told her she had a devil and it took years to shake that.

    So seeking God for tongues, I would trust God more than I would the devils ability to fool me. Who is in control of my life anyway? God of course. He has got our back so to speak.

    Jesus said this........

    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
    (Mar 16:17)

    If you believe on the name of Jesus they shall speak with new tongues.
    It did not say if you believe in Jesus then you might catch demonic tongues.

    Tongues is the only Gift out of the 9 that is for the believer (And all believers) only as they do not edify anyone else. It seemed also the gift every believer had because it got out of control and Paul had to give instruction to keep things decent and in order as God is not the author of confusion. Since anyone then could speak in tongues they come in using the gift acting all spiritual and it was out of line.

    Paul said I would rather you speak prophecy than speak in tongues because prophecy you have to actually hear the Lord as the Spirit wills, and it will edify someone. Paul said anyone speaking in tongues, do so unto God and yourself.

    I have been praying in tongues and around others that do for a very long time. I don't much care how pentecostal Christmatics go about things as I admit some of them folks is just plain weird...... I love them anyway, but I just stay away from all that.

    Also believers in lots of groups feel judged if they are the ones that don't speak in tongues, so it's common for a lot of folks to just make things up.

    Be blessed.
     
  17. A scripture where Satan can give someone false tongues....... Just one.

    One of the gifts of the Spirit is "USELESS"?

    1Co_14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

    The instruction was for a church setting, they were told to keep silent speak to themselves and unto God.

    1Co_14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

    So you say both these scriptures are wrong? That's pretty bold.

    Jud_1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

    This can only be praying though prophecy (Which takes lots more faith and God actually has to speak someone) our use praying in tongues speaking to God with the Help of the Holy Spirit. Strengthening the faith we have seems like a good thing to me.
     
  18. 1Cr 14:22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
     
  19. That's fine, in Acts tongues was an actual language someone understood, but they thought they been drinking. But a sign is just proof of something. I can speak tongues in front of nonbelievers and I can tell you some think it cool but it's not much of a sign to them.

    1Co_14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

    So tongues is not just for a sign for unbelievers. Otherwise these scriptures contradict and no scripture contradicts. Tongues is a very useful gift and should be the most used by all believers.

    Tongues is speaking to God in mysteries or speaking to God and to edify ourselves. It's a great prayer tool because we don't know all the hidden stuff of every situation.

    1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
    1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

    Paul did the same thing, he prayed with his understanding about things then prayed in tongues about it though He did not know what he was saying. That is how it works and every believer ought to value and take interest in this.
     
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