A Line You Won't Cross

[LearningToLetGo]

Is there a line you won't cross in service of the Lord?

Abram was prepared to slaughter his own son before God stayed his hand. Would he have gone through? Would the Lord have asked him otherwise?

It seems we all have our lines in the sand. We will go this far and no further, and we pray God never asks more of us than we are willing to give, but is that really service or merely lip service?

What of men of differing lines? Is the man who raises the bar above his head to look down upon the man who's bar rests at his hips or knees? The two are the same in substance, differing in quantity but not quality.

Can any serve the Lord fully? Is such a thing even possible?

 

[BibleLover]

Is there a line you won't cross in service of the Lord?

Abram was prepared to slaughter his own son before God stayed his hand. Would he have gone through? Would the Lord have asked him otherwise?

It seems we all have our lines in the sand. We will go this far and no further, and we pray God never asks more of us than we are willing to give, but is that really service or merely lip service?

What of men of differing lines? Is the man who raises the bar above his head to look down upon the man who's bar rests at his hips or knees? The two are the same in substance, differing in quantity but not quality.

Can any serve the Lord fully? Is such a thing even possible?

The obligation mandated in Romans 12:1 leaves no room for personal reservations. Refusing to obey God is not an option; disobedience is sin.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

The obligation mandated in Romans 12:1 leaves no room for personal reservations. Refusing to obey God is not an option; disobedience is sin.

Correct, but I'm not asking what the Bible says. I'm asking you to ponder the question.

 

[BibleLover]

Correct, but I'm not oasking what the Bible says. I'm asking you to ponder the question.

In all honesty, I now can't think of refusing God anything. Now, that was not true in times past, but through the years, I've learned to trust God absolutely in everything. We who love God and faithfully follow Jesus have already begun our eternal lives. We'll never die; we'll just change forms and environments.

God bless you and yours

 

[Via dolarossa]

I was reading yesterday about something that intelligence service people do and sometimes they are allowed to cross the line and do illegal things for the greater good. They won’t get prosecuted. I think of todays crime trodden world and wonder how they would cope with that sort of situation. The kind of crimes they have to pretend to go along with would depend on my moral compass, and I suppose that’s why I am not in the MI5 or something. But I have never really had a mission from God except to bring up my family well, so I suppose if I had another extended mission, I’m sure He would equip me.

 

[Dave F.]

God told the Israelites to kill their brothers that worshipped the golden calf, when they entered the promised land they were told to kill men, women, and children. They mostly obeyed but not fully, we call them faithful. Today when a man kills a group of people and claims GOD told him to kill them we call him insane. So what if GOD did tell you to kill people? This is what this thread is about, at what point do you refuse GOD. I don't believe HE would ask anyone to kill a group of people anymore. As far as in HIS service I don't think I would refuse HIM anything as HE has more than abundantly given to me. HE is GOD, who then am I to tell HIM no?

 

[LearningToLetGo]

We like to think there is no point where we would tell God no, but that's a fantasy. Sin, by its very nature, is resistance to God.

What would any of us do if we were put in Abram's place and told to sacrifice our own child? Would we yell, "no fair!" and stamp our feet against God or would we follow through? And if we did follow through would we curse God for making such a demand of us?

We trust (have faith) that God has his reasons and his reasons are good. That may be so, but God is under no obligation to explain why he commands a thing from us. Can you give God what he asks, no matter what is asked? Could you live with yourself afterwards?

 

[Major]

God told the Israelites to kill their brothers that worshipped the golden calf, when they entered the promised land they were told to kill men, women, and children. They mostly obeyed but not fully, we call them faithful. Today when a man kills a group of people and claims GOD told him to kill them we call him insane. So what if GOD did tell you to kill people? This is what this thread is about, at what point do you refuse GOD. I don't believe HE would ask anyone to kill a group of people anymore. As far as in HIS service I don't think I would refuse HIM anything as HE has more than abundantly given to me. HE is GOD, who then am I to tell HIM no?

All good points.

God also told Samuel "to kill ALL of the Armalcolites"! He didnt and in 2nd Samuel we see that an Armalcolite kills him.

However, in those times God spoke directly to men and through prophets. Today we have the written Word of God and in all cases I know of, God said that we are to live in Love and Peace and that we are NOT to murder, rape or pillage.

That being the case, God would never tell anyone to kill anyone or a group of people. Satan would, buy not God.

IMHO.....refuseing God would be better applied to things like, going into the ministry, or go to Seminary to learn the Scriptures, or moving from one location to another.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

However, in those times God spoke directly to men and through prophets. Today we have the written Word of God and in all cases I know of, God said that we are to live in Love and Peace and that we are NOT to murder, rape or pillage.

You have subtly changed the context of this thread. By restricting God's commandments to written scripture, we have a fixed body of words that we either accept or reject. There is no uncertainty. I am operating under the premise that God continues to speak directly to men. As such, it is unknowable what he may or may not ask of us.

 

[Major]

You have subtly changed the context of this thread. By restricting God's commandments to written scripture, we have a fixed body of words that we either accept or reject. There is no uncertainty. I am operating under the premise that God continues to speak directly to men. As such, it is unknowable what he may or may not ask of us.

I did not mean to offend you brother.

I for one believe that The Bible is God’s Word, and it contains everything we need to know in order to be saved and live the Christian life. 2 Peter 1:3 declares, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by his own glory and goodness.”

I also believe that God can “speak” to us through events—, He can guide us through arranging our circumstances. And God helps us to discern right from wrong through our consciences.

God may sometimes speak audibly to people. IMHO It is highly doubtful, though, that this occurs as often as some people claim it does. Again, even in the Bible, God speaking audibly is the exception, not the ordinary. If anyone claims that God has spoken to him or her, always compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak today, His words would be in full agreement with what He has said in the Bible and God does not contradict Himself.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

I did not mean to offend you brother.

No offense taken. I merely wanted to clarify the issue.

 

[Major]

No offense taken. I merely wanted to clarify the issue.

Good.

 

[crossnote]

Is there a line you won't cross in service of the Lord?

I am operating under the premise that God continues to speak directly to men. As such, it is unknowable what he may or may not ask of us.

I for one believe that The Bible is God’s Word, and it contains everything we need to know in order to be saved and live the Christian life. 2 Peter 1:3 declares, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by his own glory and goodness.”

LTG, it sounds as if Major drew that line in the sand, that he wouldn't cross and that would be getting his directives from the Lord, apart from the Scriptures.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

LTG, it sounds as if Major drew that line in the sand, that he wouldn't cross and that would be getting his directives from the Lord, apart from the Scriptures.

Possibly. I'll let him decide that.

One reason I started this thread was to see if we could examine our beliefs when the Lord calls us to be or do something beyond our expectations. My go-to example is Abram be asked to kill his own son. Dave F. picked up on that when he mentioned the Israelites who were killed before the rest entered Canaan (no under 40 was allowed entry) and when Joshua was called upon to slaughter en-mass the inhabitants therein. We consider such stuff old and expect that God would never do that again but I don't think that's so. God has and does call upon his believers to do difficult things, including sacrifice and killing.

Don't believe me? Do you hold to the idea the the United States was blessed by God in its founding? If so, then you understand that God called upon the Revolutionaries to slaughter the British.

I'm wondering if we as a people understand that we're not immune to such things. God has, is, and will continue to use his people in any way he sees fit. He's not done with us.

Honestly this kinda freaks me out. I have nightmares about stuff like this.

 

[crossnote]

I'm wondering if we as a people understand that we're not immune to such things. God has, is, and will continue to use his people in any way he sees fit. He's not done with us.

Honestly this kinda freaks me out. I have nightmares about stuff like this.

I would just remember that Abram after he was justified grew in grace to the point that his faith obeyed God's directive to be willing to sacrifice Isaac (Heb 11:17)

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Here is hopefully a more succinct way of asking this question:

Do you love God because of what he is or how he behaves?

Imagine the love of a spouse or a friend. At first you love them because of how they behave, but gradually you learn to love them for who they are, not because of their behavior but despite it. Ultimately, God willing, you reach a level of friendship where you love them unconditionally.

Applying this to God, at first you are drawn to God because of his behavior. You desire his promise of salvation and want his love. Eventually, however, you must move beyond that and realize that God deserves your worship not because of what he does but because of what he is: namely, The Creator. At this point you realize that you will do literally anything for God, even burn in Hell for all eternity if that is his will. Salvation becomes unnecessary since it's your love of God that sustains you, not his promise to you. Your love for God ceases to be transactional and becomes pure.

Bringing this back to the OP, if there is anything you can imagine that God can do that will stop you from loving him then you have discovered your line in the sand. Perhaps God damns innocents to Hell? That's your line. Perhaps he chooses those he will save before Creation began and allows untold billions to wallow in misery and death. If the notion of that offends you then that's your line, etc.

I can't express this idea any clearer than this.

 

[BibleLover]

Possibly. I'll let him decide that.

One reason I started this thread was to see if we could examine our beliefs when the Lord calls us to be or do something beyond our expectations. My go-to example is Abram be asked to kill his own son. Dave F. picked up on that when he mentioned the Israelites who were killed before the rest entered Canaan (no under 40 was allowed entry) and when Joshua was called upon to slaughter en-mass the inhabitants therein. We consider such stuff old and expect that God would never do that again but I don't think that's so. God has and does call upon his believers to do difficult things, including sacrifice and killing.

Don't believe me? Do you hold to the idea the the United States was blessed by God in its founding? If so, then you understand that God called upon the Revolutionaries to slaughter the British.

I'm wondering if we as a people understand that we're not immune to such things. God has, is, and will continue to use his people in any way he sees fit. He's not done with us.

Honestly this kinda freaks me out. I have nightmares about stuff like this.

The idea that God today would personally speak to someone commanding them to commit murder is something that belongs in a mental health facility or an Islamic country, not in a society of normalcy.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Canaan (no under 40 was allowed entry)

Correction: No one under 60 was allowed entry into the promised land since the only people allowed entry were younger than twenty at the time of the exodus from Egypt and Israel wandered forty years in the desert.

"Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:" (Numbers 32:11 AKJV)

"And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no." (Deuteronomy 8:2 AKJV)

 

[Major]

LTG, it sounds as if Major drew that line in the sand, that he wouldn't cross and that would be getting his directives from the Lord, apart from the Scriptures.

That would be correct brother.

If we got directives from a source other than God's Word, how would we know who that message came from?

 

[Major]

Possibly. I'll let him decide that.

One reason I started this thread was to see if we could examine our beliefs when the Lord calls us to be or do something beyond our expectations. My go-to example is Abram be asked to kill his own son. Dave F. picked up on that when he mentioned the Israelites who were killed before the rest entered Canaan (no under 40 was allowed entry) and when Joshua was called upon to slaughter en-mass the inhabitants therein. We consider such stuff old and expect that God would never do that again but I don't think that's so. God has and does call upon his believers to do difficult things, including sacrifice and killing.

Don't believe me? Do you hold to the idea the the United States was blessed by God in its founding? If so, then you understand that God called upon the Revolutionaries to slaughter the British.

I'm wondering if we as a people understand that we're not immune to such things. God has, is, and will continue to use his people in any way he sees fit. He's not done with us.

Honestly this kinda freaks me out. I have nightmares about stuff like this.

Personally, I believe that the USA was founded by God for one reason......so that in these days we live now, the USA would be the protector of Israel.

The USA did not "Slaughter" the British my dear brother. It was war and there was death from both sides.

I do not find in history that God called the Americans to war with Britian, UNLESS you want to consider what Britian did.
The War was principally caused by America's opposition to British attempts to impose greater control over the colonies and to make them repay the crown for its defense of them during the French and Indian War. Britain did this primarily by imposing a series of deeply unpopular laws and taxes, including the Sugar Act (1764), the Stamp Act (1765), and the so-called Intolerable Acts (1774).