2013 Prophecy

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Kevin, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Every year around this time there are usually numerous "Christian" prophecies which are published regarding the incoming year. I usually go and look for them, not out of serious interest, but usually out of amusement. Now I am not making a mockery out of genuine Christian prophecy but I find it amusing that every year the same old false prophets make predictions in the name of Christ for the new year, yet none of them ever come in to being. How these guys hold on to a serious and growing ministry is beyond me because obviously their followers never test the prophecies or are afraid to hold their leaders accountable - which makes them a cult.

    But every year the same old stuff is published, usually in two different models. The one model is that the world is going to go through terrible circumstances and the second is the coming prosperity of all true believers. The latter is obviously more attractive and has more followers, the former will eventually get it right, more out of perseverance than real revelation.

    Here is one from my favourite false prophet: After you get past all the "buy me" "buy me" stuff you eventually get to the "prophecy


    Anybody seen the beginning of the harvest last year, resurrection power? Bob Jones got some explaining to do or is he not accountable or is his prophecy jsut to vague?

    Now I dont want to debate Bob Jones but just be aware of the many prophecies which arise this time of year and test them. Print them out, because these guys have a way of changing them over time to suit their needs, and go back after a few years and see if they actually came to fulfillment.
  2. They are blatant frauds, why have they not been stoned to death at the city gates?
    Major likes this.
  3. The one design is that the globe is going to go through dreadful conditions and the second is the arriving success of all real followers.
  4. Stoning may be a bit excessive, but the reason they are so prolific is that the church has become soft and only responds to what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. We are so caught up in our blind conditioning and say things like "lets not judge them" while scriptures clearly state we are to judge those in the church and not judge those outside the church.

    If the church needs to start preaching rock solid theology out of scripture and then these guys will be seriously challenged as true prophecy comes to the fore.
  5. Deuteronomy 13 declares that any one giving a prophecy that does not come to pass.........."shall be stoned".

    Today we just throw money money at them when they are wrong and they are alwyas wrong!!!

    ALL prophetic revelation has already come from God through His Word and all these people who say................"God just spoke to me and has given me a WORD of knowledge for you"............


    Yes that is harse language. Yes I am sure someone will disagree with that and that is no problem for me. Yes I am sure someone will give an example of someone saying this or that and what they have seen. Yes, the mods may even delete this post.

    But that is my opinion, my observation in nearly 30 years of Christian ministry. People will say these things and guilable people will give them money as if that in some way validates what is said.

    It is a clear misrepsentation of God's called ministers.
  6. But if one reads the book of Daniel and the Revelation, it will be clear that God has a plan and here it is..............

    1) The Rapture of true believers....the Church............. (Can take place at any time now).
    2) An invasion of Russia into Israel.............................. (War)
    3) A 7 year peace treaty goes into effect....................... .(To have a peace treat, there must 1st be a War).
    4) 7 years of Tribulation............................................... .(The A/C will be in controle and will kill believers)
    5) Armageddon............................................................... (Jesus literally places His feet on Mt. of Olives)
    6) 1000 year rule of Christ on the earth........................ .(He will be in charge of ALL things-the lion lays with children)
    7) The Bride of Christ/Holy city desends from heaven...(The Church/Bride will be on display for all to see)
    8) A New heaven and a new Earth...................................(No more mountains or seas, just lots of land)

    Read the BOOK. It is all there and does not require any prophetic utterances from any man. God has said what He is going to do and He will do it.
  7. Kevin..........your insight is spot on my brother!

    Please notice the following statement that I copied and now paste from their website.........................................

    "In 2002, Bob Jones had a visitation from a heavenly messenger. The messenger conveyed to Bob that the condition for seeing creative miracles was Psalm 133. Unity was much more important to the Lord than we understood.
    The messenger pointed out that ambition among Believers opens the door for suspicion; suspicion brings competition; and competition breeds division. When these are present, it will motivate leaders to discredit or undermine those they feel threatened by. It will actually disqualify some and cannot exist in the heart of the generation that God entrusts spiritual power and true authority to."

    As this is a direct quote, it should not be a problem for our mods to let stand as is.

    Notice if you will that "Bob Jones" had a visitation from a heavenly messenger.
    Only Bob Jones received this message.

    This is the prescription for a cult. A leader, a powerful, influential person receives a message from God or His represenitive. HE is protrayed as a SPECIAL person. HE IS THE ANNOINTED ONE.

    Then the message is "UNITY is more important to the Lord than we understood".

    That is a clear cult message to warn those in the cult to stay where they are.

    Of course what they say is not true. Unity is important I will agree with that, BUT as all cults do, they give just enough truth leaving out what is the real message. While Unity is important, TRUTH overwhelms the need to be in unity.

    Jesus said..."I am the way the TRUTH and the life".
    He also said....."The TRUTH will set you free".

    TRUTH is more important than Unity!!!!!
    KingJ and Kevin say Amen and like this.
  8. Hi Major,

    You have just opened up an old festering sore :D.

    Here's my take on the matter.

    If we look at the revelation of scripture - yes I believe it is complete with the death of the first apostles and it is there to teach, rebuke, etc (2 Tim. 3:16). But and here is the BIG BUT. Since the death of the apostles the church has continued the story of God's work in this world and there have been literally thousands of "prophetic words" given in the last two thousand years - genuine ones. If we look at the history of the first and second Great Awakening and read the testimonies of the people God used in those movements they all had a "revelation" of some sorts or an encounter with the Holy Spirit - here comes the BIG BUT. BUT what they spoke of ALWAYS corresponded with scripture. This is how we are to test prophecy - through measuring it against scripture.

    Scripture warns us of false prophets which we see are very much in proliferation today and we are to discern them against scripture, which is exactly what you have done in your above post. This does not mean genuine prophetic words are not in existence today. To give you an example I was instructed by the Holy Spirit to go and pray for somebody - nothing is written in scripture which says "Kevin on this day and on this time thy shalt go and lay hands on xyz". I did not hear a booming voice from heaven, or have a visitation from a "heavenly messenger" I just experienced the small quite voice deep in my soul which said "GO".

    Another example is the weekly sermons we are all exposed to. If the pastor, preacher, minister has not gone before God and prepared his heart before the service and really dug into scriptures and done proper exposition through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and got revelation from God in what he needs to preach on - then we are listening to man made words and man made sermons, but if the pastor has prepared and laid himself bare before God then we will hear God given prophetic preaching where the Spirit will convict.

    A prophet is simply a person who declares the will of God, not necessarily predicting the future or giving somebody a word of knowledge but somebody who brings God's scriptures to light, and allows the Holy Spirit to work through them.
    KingJ likes this.
  9. I have some predictions for 2013. God will not change, he will remain faithful and true, he will remain on the throne, his mercy and lovingkindness will endure forever.
    Major and Theo Fane say Amen and like this.
  10. These false prophets are simply make true prophecy in the Bible that in last days there will be plenty of false prophets.
    Major likes this.

  11. Ahhh but Kevin..........God DID tell you to visit that person and to pray for him.

    Galatians 5:25
    "And if we live in the Spirit let us also walk in the Spirit".

    That means because the Holy Spirit lead us to Christ, conviced us of sin, we now allow Him to lead us to all things which would of course mean that HE knew exactly who you needed to talk with and minister to. That is not PROPHECY Kevin, but the leading of the Holy Spirit in YOUR life as is found in God's Word.

    Phillipians 2:13
    "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure".

    Kevin I am sure we will not agree on this, but there is a differance between FORTHtelling and FOREtelling.

    I am one who believe that the Scriptures tell us that there are no more prophets today. There are teachers and preachers who FORTH TELL but IMHO there are no prophets who FOREtell.


    1 Corinthians 13:8..........
    "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

    Verse 10...."THat which is perfect" is understood in the same light of chapter 2:6 which is in referrance to "MATURE". Also Col. 3:14 and Heb. 6:1.

    It is "nueter" in the Greek and refers to the COMPLETNESS or fullness or maturity of the Scriptures...........not the comeing of Christ.

    That means when the Scriptures are complete, mature they will be the permanent guide to follow because as verse #8 says...PROPHECY WILL FAIL....END! Same thing with tongues. They were temporary SIGN GIFTS given to the Apostles as validation to their messsage but when the message was completed which is the Bible...............................
    the Bible then became the MATURE/COMPLETE messaage.

    You see Kevin, when we accept a man's word that he has received a new message from God, he only only he has received it, it opens the door of opportunity to men of unscrupulous behavior who will use the gulibility of good and welling meaning people to fleece them of money. It has been going on forever and that is why God had Moses to write in Deut. that any man who gave a prophecy in God's name and it did not come to pass, that man was to be stoned.

    I love ya man and we will probably have to disagree on this one.
  12. Major, that is a wonderful use of a trail of scripture to support your position, but your conclusion is in error.
    There are prophets among us. There are several monks on Mt. Athos that have the "gift of prophecy". One in particular became famous, and then a hermit because people would not stop pestering him with stupid questions.
    It's odd, on the one hand the Evangelicals claim that the Holy Spirit speaks to them and gives them spiritual gifts,
    e.g. "speaking in tongues", but on the other hand says that spiritual gifts ended with the end of the Apostolic Era.

    Could you clarify?
  13. Hi Major,

    We can discuss the hermeneutical implications of 1 Cor. 13:8 and it all goes around the meaning of "that which is perfect" - you believe it to be the scriptures, I believe it to be the second coming of Christ. Now we both know that to base doctrine on one passage of scripture which is not entirely crystal clear is an error. So lets drop 1 Cor. 13:8 for the sake of proper Bible exegesis.

    Just a question - you believe that being led by the Holy Spirit is still in effect today, therefore the gifts of the Spirit must still be in effect? Why would the Holy Spirit remove the gifts, especially the ones which edify the church (prophecy) and the believer personally (tongues)?

    Also there are numerous NT examples of prophecy given to believers who were not apostels - so therefore prophecy is not just for proclaiming new revelation fro God but for warning other believers.

    If I recieve a word from a man, who claims he is speaking on behalf of the Holy Spirit, then I do what the Bible tells me to do - I test it against scripture and I let the elders of the church also judge if it is true. I have to admit it has only happened to me on a few rare occasions and every time I already knew the message and it was just a confimation of what God had been telling me all along.

    I luv ya brother, so lets rather concentrate on bringing the Gospel to the unsaved and discuss this one day when we are in heaven - maybe we are both wrong :eek:.
  14. Yes sir I will be glad to, and thanks for asking!

    Again, IMHO there are NO prophets today. Prophets where used by God to give out HIs word.

    Once that Word had been completed, there is then no need for a prophet to do so. Today the need is for teachers, preachers, priests that are able to TEACH and apply what God has given us through the Scriptures.

    Now it is not odd to me in that I DID NOT say that the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts to men e. g. "speaking in tongues".

    I stated the opposite my friend. Those SIGN gifts were valid and were given to the apostles.
    (Comment #11, "They were temporary SIGN GIFTS given to the Apostles as validation to their messsage but when the message was completed which is the Bible.)

    Matthew 28:16-20
    "Then the ELEVEN DISCIPLES went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When THEY saw him, THEY worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to THEM and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Mark 16:14-18
    " Later He appeared to the ELEVEN as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because THEY did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to THEM, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

    Hebrews 2: 1-4
    Therefore WE must give the more earnest heed to the things WE have heard, lest WE drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall WE escape if WE neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to US by those who HEARD Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

    The THEY in Hebrews are the THEY in MArk and Matthew. THEY are the disciples/apostles who heard the commission of Jesus to THEM. THEY had the sign gifts.

    You see, the Holy Spirit still gives spititual gifts to men and guides us in our lives, BUT the SIGN gifts were a special group of gifts given to a special group of people for a special purpose..............Spread the gospel message to all the world.

    The gifts are repeated in these passages. These ARE NOT SIGN gifts but gifts of the Holy Spirit for today:
    Romans 12

    1 Corinthians 12
    Ephesians 4
    Misc. Passages
    voluntary poverty

    Once the Bible was completed/matured/finished, and the last apostle died, according to the passage in 1 Corinthians that I quoted..."THEN shall those things cease".

    As always, it is a blessing to talk with you!
  15. Kevin,
    You asked me.............
    "do you believe that being led by the Holy Spirit is still in effect today, therefore the gifts of the Spirit must still be in effect?"

    YES! But not the SIGN gifts given to the apostles in Matt. and Mark which are confirmed in Hebrews 2.

    As for "the perfect one" being Jesus:

    Of course you are free to believe what you wish and I have no argument whatsoever. All I am saying is that because of the way the phrase is written in the Greek, it cannot refer to the coming of Christ IMO. As I stated, Paul uses the neuter here because he does NOT contemplate an "individual" thus the only other perfect thing in this world is the Bible, the WRITTEN WORD of God. If one choose to set aside the liguistics that are used in all the other places of the Scripture, then of course that is a choice. I would encourage all to look into this for themselves and not just take my word for it. STUDY IT. RESEARCH IT!!

    Once the PERFECT has been achieved, there would be no need for that which was immature.

    Then just to illustrate his point, Paul likens it to the maturation of a person from infancy to manhood in verse #11.

    Notice the words themselves Kevin in vers #11.........
    "SPAKE, UNDERSTOOD, THOUGHT". Those all speak of "past tense". They point to and speak of the ending of tongues, prophecy and knowledge in verse #8-9. Sence that is the obviouse case then it would stand to reason that we would expect changes to take place.

    I will leave it at that with my wish to you to have a blessed and happy new year in 2013.

    It is always a blessing to speak with you and remember......no one will agree on everything but on the Lord Jesus there is no question that we are to give out the Word of God for men to believe and be saved!
  16. OK, but again you interpret sections of scripture to support the notion that these things have ended.
    Many others here have said that the lists you present are in no way all inclusive, yet you state that they are.

    What do you say about a monk, an old servant of God, who actually has the gift of prophesy?
    When it comes down to it, interpretation of scripture must bow to reality.
  17. scripture, IS reality. Scripture never, never, never, bows to reality. Ever, but rather, reality to scripture. We need to look at life using scripture as our glasses-not, look at scripture using life as our glasses. When we try to force our perception of life, into the Bible, it doesnt work, it only works when we take scripture, and apply it to our lives.

    The thing about prophecy is, often times, we don't see prophecy fulfilled, until after its been done. Some say there will be a 7 year tribulation. Some not. The fact of the matter is, we don't know, Im what you might call a "pan-millenialist" as in, it will all pan out in the end. The minute anyone gets up on their soap box, and says "this is exactly how its going down, and when" I just kinda shake my head and walk off. I also shake my head, when anyone comes up with any new prophecy-The bible is clear, everything that needed prophecied, has already been prophecied. It is no longer a needed gift, everything we need to know about the future is in the Bible-and the prophecies are vague enough, we know that Jesus is returning, and we know there will be a judgement, and we know satan loses-the specifics, are yet to be made clear, but they will be in due time.
    Major and calvin say Amen and like this.
  18. Hi Major. I actually did go back this morning and go through 1 Cor. 13. In the greater scheme of things 1 Cor. 13 falls within a larger passage of scripture whereby Paul discusses the gifts of the Spirit within context of the Corinthian church who as we know were abusing the gifts in their worship.

    Now focussing closer on 1 Cor. 13 . The whole chapter's main purpose was to describe the greatest gift "Love". Nowhere in the passage is the completion of scripture referred to directly or indirectly. Actually at the time of writing Paul probably did not even know his writings would be part of scripture, in fact the apostles acknowledged the OT as the complete Word of God - so if Paul was referring to that which is complete or to that which is perfect, I dont think he was referring to scripture but to LOVE. He was referring to when we are perfected in Love or completed in love, that is why it is used in the neuter. Your use of hermeneutics is better than mine, but if you substitute the concept Love into your exegesis then it also makes perfect sense.

    We mature in love from infancy as we grow as Christians - when Christ returns only then will we be perfected in love.

    Love is the greatest gift and when we are perfected in it there will be no need for other spiritual gifts because we will Love like Jesus!
  19. Lol. Imagine that.

    What sign gifts exactly? Paul did signs, Acts 19:11, 12.

    I can agree with your line of thinking. I would re-phrase it though, to: 'we are capable of doing anything in Christ, but everything we do is subject to His will'.

    I also agree that the 'prophet' age is over (until the tribulation). They were there for the Jews. Christians are different to angels and prophets. Angels and prophets were given their own gifts and power. This power could be abused / used for their own vanity. Samson for example, could kill outside of God's will. I am just thinking what would happen if Moses hit someone on the head with his staff :).
  20. Hi King! Did you have a good Jesus birthday?

    The "Sign Gifts" that I am referring to are the ones given by Jesus to the disciples in Mart 16:14-20

    "Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    The SIGN gifts were given to the ELEVEN for the purpose of validating their message and protecting them as they traveled.

    Paul did sign and wonders because he was an apostle to whom the SIGN gifts were given.

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